Hostile Environments RTE

Wicklowrider

http://iftn.ie/news/?act1=record&only=1&aid=73&rid=4284563&tpl=archnews&force=1

21.35 RTE Monday 9/01/12 (1st of 2 parts)

Heres is something might interest some of you. 2nd programme covers "Irish Security Contractors in Seychelles" ( ex ARW apparently) I've no idea who the makers are or if it will even be worth watching but make your own mind up.

cruasder777

Wicklowrider wrote: »

http://iftn.ie/news/?act1=record&only=1&aid=73&rid=4284563&tpl=archnews&force=1

21.35 RTE Monday 9/01/12 (1st of 2 parts)

Heres is something might interest some of you. 2nd programme covers "Irish Security Contractors in Seychelles" ( ex ARW apparently) I've no idea who the makers are or if it will even be worth watching but make your own mind up.

"For obvious reasons ex UK Special Forces guys couldn’t work in various territories primarily because of that colonial baggage that was there, especially soldiers in uniform were seen with resentment. The Irish had what they called ‘The Green Card’ and it allowed them under the banner of their neutrality they could operate in places, with less controversy. That is really how it came about. As well the defence forces guys are very well trained and because of the neutrality it gives them the opportunity to train with lots of different Special Forces companies and countries, that again, because of political bias they wouldn’t be allowed to do."


.................Mad Mike Hoare did his bit out in the Seychelles, hence the mistrust of British contractors out there.

Its also to do with the fact Irish contractors speak English.

Morpheus

Just like to point out that Ireland is not a Neutral country. Its mentioned on numerous occasions in the article.

Maoltuile

Morphéus wrote: »

Just like to point out that Ireland is not a Neutral country.

How so? We have no colonial 'interests' from any former empire, and we're not part of NATO.

We'll see how this turns out. That Cunningham and this producer seem to have a bias towards seeing these "private security contractors" (I wonder what they were called before?) as the heroes in the story doesn't speak well.

I've heard of Executive Outcomes before, and none of it good.

Maoltuile

Just watching it now - the main guy being followed seems to have the ARW insignia as his company logo(!).

And RTÉ have just announced on TV that just "400" have qualified as ARW over the decades - no comment.

goldie fish

Maoltuile wrote: »

Just watching it now - the main guy being followed seems to have the ARW insignia as his company logo(!).

And RTÉ have just announced on TV that just "400" have qualified as ARW over the decades - no comment.

Many have completed the selection course successfully, but much fewer have gone down the whole road.
Its more than 400 though. After all, its been 30+ years...

Parade Boy

I love the optimism from the producer Tony Deegan about his show 'Hostile Environments'

Do you have plans to do more like this?
Tony Deegan - Ideally. It will depend on the success of the first two. I mean there are a lot of Irish guys working internationally. The programme when it is broadcast will do one of two things, it will make people either run further away or it will make a lot of people interested. All the time I am trying to build relations within the industry which is a very small, select industry and they all know each other

They'll run a mile away from more. This is not the exposure these firms want. Ex-Special Forces people don't want their work publicised 99.9% of the time. Paul Butler did himself or his "secret" business no favours. He made a classic mistake of thinking he could control the show by being distant, moody and secretive.

It was interesting, but for a show about private security it was too much about diamonds in Liberia. That is a very interesting topic for a programme of its own. In this it was important for context and demonstrating the lack of ethics in this shady world, but it strayed off the point to keep an Irish audience interested.

xflyer

Maoltuile, Ireland is non aligned not neutral. There is a difference. But our so called neutrality is played up all the time as if it was some kind of high moral stance that makes us better than other countries. In fact it's largely thanks to Northern Ireland that we didn't join NATO when it was formed. Members had to recognise current borders and that was impossible for us at the time.

kittytwister

Could not understand how this programme was so exciting. Liam Cunningham during one of his to camera statements in what he told us was a dangerous location was like a tourist with expensive telephoto lens and two camera's thrown over his shoulder. Well if it was that dangerous any sensible person puts valuables in their bag out of the eyes of potential robbers. Ask anyone who has been to places like South Africa...do you invite trouble by displaying all the trappings of a rich tourist as you ramble down Long Street in Capetown? I got the impression this was a staged programme and that your man Paul Butler and Cunningham were in tandom to try and give the impression to us licence payers that they were really engaged in "Mossad" type activities. Big stuff. A bit of a waste of time if you ask me..Liam stick to the acting you are great at it but not as a reporter.

xflyer

Well presumably he was in the company of armed guards. Certainly Butler had to have a pistol on his person for the benefit of his client. In other scenes Cunningham was in the company of either Liberian police or the UN. That would presumably deter any opportunist.

But really Liberia is dangerous enough without the need to stage anything. No need to exaggerate.

Praetorian Saighdiuir

xflyer wrote: »

Well presumably he was in the company of armed guards. Certainly Butler had to have a pistol on his person for the benefit of his client. In other scenes Cunningham was in the company of either Liberian police or the UN. That would presumably deter any opportunist.

But really Liberia is dangerous enough without the need to stage anything. No need to exaggerate.

Exactly, Its a ranch!!

For someone to say it was staged is ridiculous. You dont go to a place like Liberia for the craic.

I was looking forward to seeing the programme but I ended up being dissapointed. I cant believe Butler actually agreed to do the programme. It doesnt make sense that PS firms would let a reporter into their world or give them (even how brief) an insight into their dealings and inner workings. I suppose im old fashioned when I would term their presence as an intrusion/distraction/and a liability.

Maoltuile

xflyer wrote: »

Maoltuile, Ireland is non aligned not neutral. There is a difference. But our so called neutrality is played up all the time as if it was some kind of high moral stance that makes us better than other countries. In fact it's largely thanks to Northern Ireland that we didn't join NATO when it was formed. Members had to recognise current borders and that was impossible for us at the time.

Yes, if we were truly "neutral" we'd ensure that no other power could use our territory to military advantage... which clearly isn't the case. And we've increasingly become aiders and abetters to US wars.

It's true that the historical stance of military isolation and anti-colonialism is wrongly lumped in under the neutrality banner, but I have to admit that it's a convenient shorthand for public debate. Can you think of a better substitute?

alanmcqueen

With the unfortunate death of Gerry Ryan, RTE lost its sole presenter interested in military affairs. A loss to anyone interested in military topics, whatever your views on him personally. IMO this programme was something he would have liked. It provided an insight into the world of PMCs, Irish ones at that, and it wasn't patronising or approached from a viewpoint that military force is wrong in the first place.

As for 400 ARW in thirty years, that's an average of 13 a year through selection - not exactly unbelievable.

As for the contractor publicising his work, he did not seem like an idiot - quite the opposite in fact - so I'll go with his considered opinion on this decision as opposed to criticising his actions.

I'll be watching next week.

Maoltuile

alanmcqueen wrote: »

It provided an insight into the world of PMCs, Irish ones at that, and it wasn't patronising or approached from a viewpoint that military force is wrong in the first place.

That's a strawman, though. No-one here has argued that military force is wrong per se, but people do have problems (I certainly do) when it's used to nefarious ends, and mercenaries are very often the culprits.

alanmcqueen

Maoltuile wrote: »

That's a strawman, though. No-one here has argued that military force is wrong per se, but people do have problems (I certainly do) when it's used to nefarious ends, and mercenaries are very often the culprits.

I was referring to the approach of the production team and the presenter.

I'm less interested in why military force is used - generally a more political forum - than how it's used - military forum.

As for using force to achieve 'nefarious ends', mercenaries are amateurs at that, governments do it professionally.

Bagenal

Parade Boy wrote: »

They'll run a mile away from more. This is not the exposure these firms want. Ex-Special Forces people don't want their work publicised 99.9% of the time. Paul Butler did himself or his "secret" business no favours. He made a classic mistake of thinking he could control the show by being distant, moody and secretive.

It was interesting, but for a show about private security it was too much about diamonds in Liberia. That is a very interesting topic for a programme of its own. In this it was important for context and demonstrating the lack of ethics in this shady world, but it strayed off the point to keep an Irish audience interested.

I wouldn't disagree with you

Maoltuile

alanmcqueen wrote: »

As for using force to achieve 'nefarious ends', mercenaries are amateurs at that, governments do it professionally.

Governments at least are answerable to their citizens. Who are mercenaries answerable to? The point is that there's no job too dirty for them, including those that democratically-controlled militaries wouldn't go anywhere near.

BigDuffman

Jesus, how many threads can be derailed by neutrality arguments or baby killer arguments.....

Will have to give it a look! Liam Cunningham the new Ross Kemp!?

arybvtcw0eolkf

BigDuffman wrote: »

Jesus, how many threads can be derailed by neutrality arguments or baby killer arguments.....

Will have to give it a look! Liam Cunningham the new Ross Kemp!?

Amen to that one.

Look at that crap 'Hostile Environment' - but honestly its a pile of donkey crap.

roundymac

On again tonight, it's about Barry Galvin (ex CAB boss) helping the Seychelles with money laundering.

Fuinseog

I am surprised that Baron Shortt of County Louth does not feature, but then the programme is not supposed to satirical.

the episode last week was unusual. The guy from Cork wanted exposure but extreme secrecy at the same time. he did come across well.

Wicklowrider

I was impressed with the lads featured last night. They've done well for themselves. Came across as calm, decisive knowledgeable and articulate.
Some achievement for 2 ex soldiers to rise to the chief of the Drug Squad and Financial Investigations squad. Anyone soldiered with them?

musafir.aa

Lads anyone know where i can catch the first part of the documentary? 2nd part is still on RTE player just found about this yesterday.

Wicklowrider

Don't know where you'll catch the first part but tbh it wasn't up to much ( see the earlier posts). 2nd part was far more interesting

dingding

Founr the second part on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMBHnxKl2qI