Catholic Church Oppression - Really a Class War?

JupiterKid

We've all heard, pretty much ad nauseam now, how the Catholic church exercised almost complete control of Ireland until the last decades of the 20th century. The sexual oppression of society and women in particular and the sickening child abuse and treatment of poor children by the religious orders is now well documented.

I found an article written from a very socialist/Marxist perspective but I though it was interesting because suggests that the middle class in pre-1960s Ireland were favoured by the church and that the poor were treated with total contempt by the religious. I'm finding myself in agreement with this opinion as I recall rank snobbery amongst some prisests and nuns back in my school days in the 1980s. Anyone care to share an opinion on the matter?

Here's the link:
http://pubs.socialistreviewindex.org.uk/isj91/horgan.htm

Kiera

My bargepole isn't big enough for this thread. :P

kincsem

No.

El Weirdo

JupiterKid wrote: »

We've all heard, pretty much ad nauseam now...

Yes. Yes we have.

Stinicker

JupiterKid wrote: »

We've all heard, pretty much ad nauseam now, how the Catholic church exercised almost complete control of Ireland until the last decades of the 20th century. The sexual oppression of society and women in particular and the sickening child abuse and treatment of poor children by the religious orders is now well documented.

I found an article written from a very socialist/Marxist perspective but I though it was interesting because suggests that the middle class in pre-1960s Ireland were favoured by the church and that the poor were treated with total contempt by the religious. I'm finding myself in agreement with this opinion as I recall rank snobbery amongst some prisests and nuns back in my school days in the 1980s. Anyone care to share an opinion on the matter?

Here's the link:
http://pubs.socialistreviewindex.org...j91/horgan.htm

The link is not working however I am in total agreement with you. The Catholic church has caused infinite problems for Ireland and Eamonn De Valera gave them free reign to cause trouble.

Benny_Cake

Politics AND religion? This will end well...

Mardy Bum

The middle class gave the church all the power it had. After being oppressed by the British for so long they needed to find some other type of oppression.

Or it may be that people wanted to forget the civil war politics and decided the church was a great place to find some common ground.

Immaculate Pasta

But poor people don't get into heaven though. I thought this was a well documented fact?

mikemac1

Socialists concentrating on class and also opposing the Church?

Your link doesn't work but it's predictable what's going to be in it

lmaopml

Socialists and Marxists blame the middle classes on everything that ever happened everywhere; no surprise there - and are only a hop away from the communist ingenious solution to all the bid baddies in society.

Meh!

mikemac1

lmaopml wrote: »

Socialists and Marxists blame the middle classes on everything that ever happened everywhere;

Quiet you

Bourgeois capitalist scum :mad:

JupiterKid

Fixed the link now.:) The paper may be a tad heavy for some AHers but it makes for interesting reading.

I think a lot of what it says is correct - that the power of the church over Irish society - which incidentally only became complete after the famine - was pretty much a class war dressed up as a moral crusade.

It seems that if a person had good connections and was wealthy enough, they could bypass many of the church imposed strictures of the day whereas for the poor this was simply not an option and thus they suffered the hardest.:mad::(

El Weirdo

JupiterKid wrote: »

The paper may be a tad heavy for some AHers...

:rolleyes:

KeithAFC

The RCC and Maxists and Socialists are all as bad as each other IMO. But the RCC has a lot to answer for. The pope for starters need to be more open to what has went on behind closed doors. It is a disgrace that the victims have not got justice.

AlmightyCushion

I wouldn't say it was a class war, it was alright at best.

Chuck Stone

Troll spotted.

JupiterKid

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Troll spotted.

Where? Who?

The oppression by the church of Irish society was not alright, it was downright deplorable.:mad:

And as for Northern Ireland, there is religious fanatiscism galore up there from some Protestant denominations which is holding that place back by decades in some cases. No-one from the North is in a position to lecture the Republic given the bloodshed that happened there from the 1960s to the 1990s.

Benny_Cake

lmaopml wrote: »

Socialists and Marxists blame the middle classes on everything that ever happened everywhere; no surprise there - and are only a hop away from the communist ingenious solution to all the bid baddies in society.

Meh!

No, we lefties blend the contradictions inherent in the system. Help, I'm being repressed!

Rothmans

JupiterKid wrote: »

Where? Who?

The oppression by the church of Irish society was not alright, it was downright deplorable.:mad:

And as for Northern Ireland, there is religious fanatiscism galore up there from some Protestant denominations which is holding that place back by decades in some cases. No-one from the North is in a position to lecture the Republic given the bloodshed that happened there from the 1960s to the 1990s.

Religion wasn't at all responsible for the Troubles, just so you know.

JupiterKid

Rothmans wrote: »

Religion wasn't at all responsible for the Troubles, just so you know.

Erm...I'd have to disagree with you there. I think it had soemthing to do with the Troubles alright.

Rothmans

JupiterKid wrote: »

Erm...I'd have to disagree with you there. I think it had soemthing to do with the Troubles alright.

Religion didn't cause the Troubles. If anything, the various religious orders tried to end the violence.
Do a little background reading on it.