Lorries and cyclists and cycling lanes-Interesting article .

cycletheroad

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-24025850-protect-cyclists-from-lorries-say-medics-who-hear-their-dying-words.do

Its mentioned in this article about cycle lanes, where lanes start and the end in the abyss and most of the time they don't get you from A to B. For example, in waterford they have a cycle lane going out the dunmore road, outside the city environs and would be regarded as the leafy suburbs, but no cycle lanes appeared anywhere else in the city.....i always felt the lane was put because of the area it was. Anyway it is a very good point in the article.....that cycle lanes should get you from A to B.

tomasrojo

It definitely should be something you hear over and over again: stay clear of HGVs and buses that might turn left.

The comments after that article are as depressing as you might expect.

cycletheroad

tomasrojo wrote: »

It definitely should be something you hear over and over again: stay clear of HGVs and buses that might turn left.

The comments after that article are as depressing as you might expect.

I see it time and time again, where cyclists go in on the left of buses and lorries to turn left.......and also dead pedaling at lights that are red, waiting for a gap to cross. A cyclist should take up position behind a vehicle at traffic lights and not at the side, be it left or right.

tomasrojo

cycletheroad wrote: »

A cyclist should take up position behind a vehicle at traffic lights and not at the side, be it left or right.

Yes, I think so too. But it's much more important when that vehicle is enormous and has many blind spots!

doozerie

It's an interesting idea, to focus on highlighting selective things to cyclists such as the dangers posed by HGV's. Has that been done here before? It certainly falls under the general heading of educating cyclists but I don't recall any campaign in the past that has singled out HGV's. I'm inclined to think it couldn't hurt, no pun intended.

As regards road positioning as a cyclist, be it at traffic lights or in moving traffic, it can be very tricky to avoid ending up to the left or right of a large vehicle and buses in particular. For one thing, cycle lanes can often lead you into that position, but also in slow moving traffic (of which there is a lot) I find it quite common to be moving faster than a bus and therefore passing it out usually on the inside - that's not an issue, I believe, as long as I use common sense and the bus driver doesn't drive erratically. I've certainly had occasions where one or both of those conditions failed to apply but those incidents have been the exception. Blind spots are undeniably an issue to be aware of though, as are the perils of passing inside a turning vehicle, and a campaign that focused on those would be beneficial I think.

doozerie

Hmm, the following quote is from the An Garda annual report for 201o:

On 20 October 2010, an enforcement and safety education operation targeting pedal cyclists was launched on Dame Street in Dublin. This operation formed part of the Dublin Metropolitan Region’s
Casualty Reduction Implementation Plan, which ran for eight weeks during October and November 2010.
During the operation, cyclists were invited to sit into the cab of a Heavy Goods Vehicle (HGV), provided by the Road Haulage Association, to view at first hand how difficult it can be for drivers to see cyclists on the road if they are not using lights or wearing highvisibility clothing.

Sounds like a useful exercise (pity about the emphasis on high visibility clothing though!). So maybe there have been campaigns focusing on HGV's and I've just not noticed them.

PurpleBee

the most dangerous thing I've noticed lately is drivers trying to pass you out just before or even on mini roundabouts.

I presume they're supposed to come to a complete stop at all of them but they never do and never leave enough room for the cyclist they shouldn't be overtaking there in the first place.

Not sure how cyclists are supposed for to make mini roundabouts safer for themselves

-K2-

PurpleBee wrote: »

Not sure how cyclists are supposed for to make mini roundabouts safer for themselves

Cycle in the middle of the lane.

tomasrojo

They tend to drive over mini-roundabouts and treat the junction like a crossroads. Cyclecraft has some good advice, but my copy is out on long-term loan, so I can't report exactly what that was!

tomasrojo

doozerie wrote: »

Hmm, the following quote is from the An Garda annual report for 201o:



Sounds like a useful exercise (pity about the emphasis on high visibility clothing though!). So maybe there have been campaigns focusing on HGV's and I've just not noticed them.

I remember this vaguely, and I also recall somebody did a shot-for-shot remake of a British safety campaign with much the same emphasis, and put it on YouTube. I don't think they got truck drivers out on bikes to show them what it's like from the other side.

But what's really needed is simpler: repetition of the notion that you just don't pass on the inside of a large vehicle as you're approaching any type of junction or bend. You don't actually need to understand the viewpoint of the driver, just that it's dangerous and you shouldn't do it.

EDIT: It occurs to me that if an advert were to be done, it probably would feature death and ambulances and funereal peals and weeping mothers. This isn't what I have in mind. The old Safe Cross Code ads didn't show children being butchered and it got the message across well (unlike the updated one, which shows children how to line-dance badly).

Rovi

PurpleBee wrote: »

I presume they're supposed to come to a complete stop at all of them but they never do and never leave enough room for the cyclist they shouldn't be overtaking there in the first place.

To the best of my knowledge, and with the exception of that wonderful Irish invention, the signal controlled roundabout, all junctions onto roundabouts are controlled by a 'Yield' sign and line. You proceed with caution if it's safe to do so; there's no specific requirement to stop.

PurpleBee wrote: »

Not sure how cyclists are supposed for to make mini roundabouts safer for themselves

Take command of your lane and don't leave a nice tempting gap for the impatient/incompetent to try to jump into.

galwaycyclist

This is a good film about the issues - its in German however but I reckon the meaning comes accross.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxC02tp_ewc

Vocabulary:
Toter winkel = blind spot
LKV = goods vehicle
Spiegel = mirror
Fenster = window
Blickkontakt = eye contact

Watch for the bit where they "hide" a primary school class beside the truck.

galwaycyclist

As a PS

In 1993 the German Federal Highways Institute reported that junction collisions between cyclists and goods vehicles were twice as likely on roads with cycle tracks compared to roads without cycle tracks.

http://pdeleuw.de/fahrrad/fdf/fdf-189.html

(German again sorry)

rp

tomasrojo wrote: »

They tend to drive over mini-roundabouts and treat the junction like a crossroads. Cyclecraft has some good advice, but my copy is out on long-term loan, so I can't report exactly what that was!

Cyclecraft - Mini roundabouts

cycletheroad

rp wrote: »

Cyclecraft - Mini roundabouts

I think roundabouts were never meant to be as small as you get them now, particularly when you have a car at each exit.......not enough circle, if you know what i mean.......and their an awful lot of people who,when in a car, don't know how to drive properly around one....

Sean02

We need somebody like Ken Livingston and a Cycling organisation like C.T.C. They initiated many campaigns and initiatives in London. One of the best was the advanced stop lines for cyclists, particuarly Ladies who tended to obey the law by stopping behind the stop line, which of course is in the HGV's blind spot. They gave out free blind spot mirrors to truck drivers, now I imagine all trucks are fitted. Recently they warned that the death rate of Cyclists in London would rise dramaticly with the change in law allowing 60foot HGV's seems the max is 40foot. I lobbied the former F.Fail transport minister about this change, no acknowledgment. Promoting Commuter and leisure cycling in Ireland is all about spending millions on D4 type project with plenty of photo shoots for the suits.Simple initives like sweeping off road cycle paths reguarly, filling in potholes, opening up grand and canal towpathr ect. would make a big advance in bike safety.

daenerysstormborn3

cycletheroad wrote: »

I see it time and time again, where cyclists go in on the left of buses and lorries to turn left.......and also dead pedaling at lights that are red, waiting for a gap to cross. A cyclist should take up position behind a vehicle at traffic lights and not at the side, be it left or right.

I assume you mean only if there is no advanced stop box like there is in a lot of bigger cities, particularly Dublin, specifically for cyclists.

Like this sort of thing

cycletheroad

pixiebean22 wrote: »

I assume you mean only if there is no advanced stop box like there is in a lot of bigger cities, particularly Dublin, specifically for cyclists.

Like this sort of thing

Ya, thats right, i;m referring to these "fried eggs" roundabouts that you see, popping up every where but as you said no advanced stop box.

Del2005

cycletheroad wrote: »

Ya, thats right, i;m referring to these "fried eggs" roundabouts that you see, popping up every where but as you said no advanced stop box.

The clue is in the name, advanced stop not yield . Of course vehicles should give way to bikes at junctions, but most don't give way to cars or heavy vehicles as there is Zero enforcement.

When I was doing an artic lesson many moons ago. I was stopped at lights waiting to turn left. I say a cyclist filtering past a line of cars on the inside. Just as I got a green the cyclist disappeared from my mirror, I waited a few seconds for them to reappear in any mirror but they didnt for what felt like ages. I think the cyclist saw the green light and pulled in behind me to let me turn. I wasn't turning till I knew where the cyclist was and shortly after they appeared back in my mirror so I moved off.

When a cyclist stops around a large vehicle make sure you can see the drivers head and body clearly, either in a mirror or if you're in front turn around to check. If you can't see these then the driver can't see you. You'd be amazed at the size of the blind spots on large vehicles.

cycletheroad

Del2005 wrote: »

The clue is in the name, advanced stop not yield . Of course vehicles should give way to bikes at junctions, but most don't give way to cars or heavy vehicles as there is Zero enforcement.

When I was doing an artic lesson many moons ago. I was stopped at lights waiting to turn left. I say a cyclist filtering past a line of cars on the inside. Just as I got a green the cyclist disappeared from my mirror, I waited a few seconds for them to reappear in any mirror but they didnt for what felt like ages. I think the cyclist saw the green light and pulled in behind me to let me turn. I wasn't turning till I knew where the cyclist was and shortly after they appeared back in my mirror so I moved off.

When a cyclist stops around a large vehicle make sure you can see the drivers head and body clearly, either in a mirror or if you're in front turn around to check. If you can't see these then the driver can't see you. You'd be amazed at the size of the blind spots on large vehicles.

Zero enforcement is the key here.......their is none and thats part of the problem, i would equate it to pedestrians out walking at night with no hi-viz,lights etc, and they expect you to see them,,,,if you hit somebody in that position with your vehicle, your life is turned upside down, and the blame should lie fairly with the pedestrian.