honest opinions on semi choke chains

falabo

please feel free to give me your opinions

My dogs went to training but despite all OUR efforts they will not stop pulling on the lead, they refuse to walk behind me and want to be ahead, nose on the ground at all times. I've tried pretty much everythign and also all the great advice from people in here

They are not as bad as they used to be but still some tension on the lead. I went for a 90 minute walk with them yesterday and today I have a back ache

I have never tried such items but was just wondering if that could cure the problem. I do not want anything crual or hurt my dogs, I'd rather live with the walks from hell.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Trixie-Semi-Choke-Chain-Dog-Training-Collar-35-55cm-/130621047588?_trksid=p3286.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D3%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D5419714995344778705

andreac

Have you tried the dogmatic headcollar at all?

sambuka41

Have you tried something like a Halti? I don't know much about the half choke chains but I can't imagine they are the best.

One of my dogs was like that years ago, thankfully he is a Cairn so not too much muscle was required. To get him to walk without pulling I stopped dead in my tracks every time he pulled and didn't start walking again till he was beside me (or at least not pulling). It took 40 mins to walk as far as the end of my road :D (normally a 30 second walk) but he learned. Next time it only took 30 mins, time after that he was good from the door of the house.

Although now he lives with my parents who have no boundaries for their dogs and he has reverted to his old self, Ben-Ben the Bullet is used to call him

excaliburhc

personally hate the thought of a choke chain - it is basically teaching the dog through pain and punishment .

it is negative reinforcement and it could get to the stage where the dog will avoid you altogether to avoid the pain.

there doesnt seem to be a definitive answer from the ispca / rspca (in fact the ispca sell them).

i see it as punishing the dog to stop it being curious and active -

disclaimer - i have never used a choke collar on any dog i ever had - i know people that do and in my opinion it is wrong (uninformed opinion i might add) . look it up online and see if you can find examples but to hurt an animal to spare your back - sorry i cant agree with that

falabo

yes thought it would be neagtive reinforcment so not keen

tried to stop dead when they pull. its like after 30 minutes they START to understand and things are better. Hopwver the SLIGHTEST distraction will set them off.

Even when you think you're doing great thern suddenly back to get square one. They still run after flying leaves !!!! (20 months old!!!)

I have Dogmatic head collars and its the only thing that will work however on is completely calm and the other one dhaking her head like a horse. its not going intheir eyes but she looks really really hyper on this ...

They get plenty of exercice but each walk its like their first, they go MENTAL until they get to snif

littlebug

I currently use a halti front clip harness which does the job (and it sounds like your dogs are like mine). Not just as good as the dogmatic but definitely eases the pulling. I think there are other front clip harnesses out there which are well recommended... sensible? ( I think that's the name).

pinkhappyturtle

I've 3 dogs 2 large and one medium and had the same pulling issues. Walk time was not fun but have resolved it the use of the 2 best items I could ever find.

1. The Anti Pull Harness, it tightens around the legs the more they pull but while doing this stops them from pulling because of the way it closes in. Hard to explain but if you see it you would understand and there is padding to prevent the strings from hurting. I noticed the difference with this straight away.

2. A wooden bamboo cane, I don't hit them hard just a little tap on the rear when they start to pull and straight away they are back inline. To be honest I bring it for walks with me more for show than anything.

I've used choke chains and the semi ones a long time ago and found them useless. When a Jack Russell which is what I was walking at the time wants to pull no choke chain will stop them it just chokes them.

Try the Anti Pull Harness you won't look back. I'm saying it stops they pulling completely but it stops it to a bearable level and allows you to train them much easier!

Good Luck!!!!

falabo

might give the dogmatic a go as I have been using the Canny Collar but sometimes they are able to get it off

do u know which of these 3 pet shops would sell them?

- petstop Blanchardstown
- petMania Navan
- Equipet Navan

Would love to get them today actually thanks

Blueprint

I used to use one of those collars as my guy has a thick neck and could back out of an ordinary one if he got spooked, it was a little on the big side, so didn't actually get very tight, but it didn't stop him pulling AT ALL!

He had a knee op last summer and I needed something to stop pulling fast as he'd forgotten all his training after six weeks confinement and got him this front fastening harness: http://www.amazon.co.uk/PREMIER-Easy-Walk-Harness-MEDIUM/dp/B0009ZD3QY/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1325866322&sr=8-15

Instant results, within a day or so. We're back to an ordinary harness now, as he's calmed down with regular walks again!

Cows Go µ

We use those collars all the time but I didn't think they would be useful at all for correcting pulling. Its just negative reinforcement which isn't normally a good idea for training a dog. We just use them as they don't cut the hair at the neck and are easy to put on and off, the dogs never pull, they're show dogs so they are really well trained for walking on the lead.

The dogmatic makes our big dog from the pound panic, he used to be quite vicious and we tried a muzzle and those and he completely freaks out with both. He's just got a regular harness on at the moment but I've heard good things about these types of harnesses http://www.softouchconcepts.com/ ones that connect to the lead at the front. I'm thinking of trying them out as Logan doesn't really pull but if he sees another dog first he will do his damnedest to get to it. Its fine if I see the dog first as I know how to keep him calm but if I'm distracted or picking up a poo or something, its hard not to be dragged as he's really strong.

cocker5

falabo wrote: »

might give the dogmatic a go as I have been using the Canny Collar but sometimes they are able to get it off

do u know which of these 3 pet shops would sell them?

- petstop Blanchardstown
- petMania Navan
- Equipet Navan

Would love to get them today actually thanks

Hi Fabalo...

my cocker is the same... despite tons of training he pulls like a brat.... has done since a pup.... we tried "gentle leader", "Halti".... they pulled his eyes and he got infections.... we also tried a body harness... that just gave him more leverage to pull... so about 4 years ago we ordered the dogmatic... its fab, the only thing that has worked for us.... yes he hates it but it makes his on lead walks far more pleasant for all of us!

Im not too sure if you can get them in ireland..... i ordered mine from their webiste... took 10 days to come...

best of luck...

http://www.dogmatic.org.uk/

ISDW

I used to use half checks as my dogs were very strong. Stopped using them as they were marking the dogs' fur, I felt they were heavy around their neck, and didn't stop them pulling:D A lot of husky owners use semi-slips, again, I've stopped using them as well, as I've had dogs escape from them.

We were in the UK over Christmas, and took 4 of my dogs with us, they only had a small yard for exercise, so went out for a good few walks every day, and I went back to using my dogmatic on my biggest dog, as its the only way I could walk him with the amount of others dogs (most off lead) and the slippery mud. Brilliant piece of equipment, although he looked so sad everytime I went to put it on him. He's also a bit weird, as he wouldn't go to the toilet with it on, I had to take it off for a few minutes on each walk, and just have his lead on his collar:rolleyes:

tk123

Blueprint wrote: »

I
He had a knee op last summer and I needed something to stop pulling fast as he'd forgotten all his training after six weeks confinement and got him this front fastening harness: http://www.amazon.co.uk/PREMIER-Easy-Walk-Harness-MEDIUM/dp/B0009ZD3QY/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1325866322&sr=8-15
!

I stopped using the premier one and went back to a sense-ible/sense-ation one - I found the premier loosened and needed to be adjusted all the time. I loved it at first but it slowly started to drive me nuts.

For us the self control exercises worked really well - where you throw the treats ahead and don't allow them to have them in class. We practised it so much at home and walking around the park that he does this big exaggerated tiptoe up to the treats - looks so funny lol :pac:

It's very frustrating at times when NOTHING seems to be working but (for us anyways) the best 'tool' was time and patience - I just stuck with the exercises we'd learned in class and in fairness (cos I always say he's bold lol) he walks really well on the lead now.

When he was small he caught me off guard and yanked the lead..went home and over the next few hours I could fell a little pain/throbbing in my back ..it got worse and worse until it was a sharp pain every 20-30 seconds - I timed it when I was up all night!.. Anyhoos no appointments in the GP so I went to VHI and they thought I'd cracked ribs but it was just a pulled muscle
Doc - Is he a big dog?
TK - eh .. he's a 3 month old puppy!! :P

seefin

Gentle leader harness. Like previous poster said,you have to tighten every time put on but takes a second to adjust. Worked instantly with my dog.best thing ever. Tried a halti before but she hated it so much. Harness much better

eoinburke67

heres my idea of choke chains, they are the last resort for training a dog to walk on a lead, prong collars are too far. I went through a tough time training my dog to walk on the lead so i got a slip lead and adopted Caesar millans approach to dog walking, easy to follow and quick results.
1) the collar should be right up on the neck just before the head
2) corrections are sideways i.e when you correct the dog with a small jerk on the lead sideways.
3) do this with No2 as you are walking and you see the dog about to puling ( presuming you walk the dog one your left side) lift your right foot and Tap the dog between the end of the ribcage and hip.

Also to get a loose leash while walking you must give the dog a loose leash. but you must still maintain control which is why the lead is placed so far up on the dogs head, you control the head you control the body. hope this helps

Oh and for those who recommend harnesses, do not! why do you put a harness on a sled dog?.... answer that any you know why.... it gives the dog more power to the back legs the machines pulling your arm off already

ISDW

eoinburke67 wrote: »

heres my idea of choke chains, they are the last resort for training a dog to walk on a lead, prong collars are too far. I went through a tough time training my dog to walk on the lead so i got a slip lead and adopted Caesar millans approach to dog walking, easy to follow and quick results.
1) the collar should be right up on the neck just before the head
2) corrections are sideways i.e when you correct the dog with a small jerk on the lead sideways.
3) do this with No2 as you are walking and you see the dog about to puling ( presuming you walk the dog one your left side) lift your right foot and Tap the dog between the end of the ribcage and hip.

Also to get a loose leash while walking you must give the dog a loose leash. but you must still maintain control which is why the lead is placed so far up on the dogs head, you control the head you control the body. hope this helps

Oh and for those who recommend harnesses, do not! why do you put a harness on a sled dog?.... answer that any you know why.... it gives the dog more power to the back legs the machines pulling your arm off already

Totally different styles of harnesses, these are non pull harnesses that are being referred to, not sled dog, X back or long distance harnesses.

The OP was asking about semi choke chains, not choke chains.

Blueprint

tk123 wrote: »

I stopped using the premier one and went back to a sense-ible/sense-ation one - I found the premier loosened and needed to be adjusted all the time. I loved it at first but it slowly started to drive me nuts.

I just put a few stitches into the front part of the harness to stop it loosening up, as that was the part that kept getting loose. Can unpick them if he changes shape!

We spent the best part of 3 months as he was rehabbing doing nothing but practicing loose leash walking, walking to heel etc. - had to do something to keep us from getting bored with the 5 minute walks we started out with! However, he is so smart that the slightest loss of focus by me means he will try it on (none of this I learned it once so that'll do me for the rest of my life for him!).

He started getting really fed up with the restrictions in the end and would just plant himself and stand staring longingly in the direction he actually wanted to walk in, ignoring treats, pleading etc. and the Permier is no good for applying gentle pressure to make the dog walk your way, so we're back to his handy one with a handle in the top I got from Zooplus, as it allows a certain amount of gentle pressure in your desired direction. (It also lets you grab the handle when he starts getting over excited, which is important in a small, bouncy rehab dog!)

http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/dogs/dog_collars_dog_leads/harnesses/julius_k9_harnesses/194482

TK, have you found your guy is less tolerant of other dogs etc. since he has had his operations? My guy is much quicker to tell a dog off if they invade his space since his cruciate op, I imagine it's a confidence thing as the leg is weak and he knows it, although months without being allowed to meet dogs due to restricted exercise probably didn't help.

tk123

Blueprint wrote: »

TK, have you found your guy is less tolerant of other dogs etc. since he has had his operations? My guy is much quicker to tell a dog off if they invade his space since his cruciate op, I imagine it's a confidence thing as the leg is weak and he knows it, although months without being allowed to meet dogs due to restricted exercise probably didn't help.

Not so far - he's quite submissive though - he was 2 before he politely told the JRT (he's GR) who snapped at him and made him terrified of smaller dogs to GTFO when he tried to hump him - I was so proud lol!!:pac:
He's at the stage now for the last few weeks where he'll meet another dog and be all reserved and polite saying hello to them and play jumping and barking like a lunatic lol! He's a daycare dog thou - he'd normally go twice a week so he loves to play.

Is your dog doing hydrotherapy to build up the leg? Week 11 of (hopefully)12 starts on Tuesday for us so if the vet gives the go ahead to let him off the lead at 12 weeks I'm going to get him back to hydro asap. He didn't bear weight on his 'new' leg until we did the hydro. He LOVES to swim and was doing 2x10 min sessions with the jets on - he just wears a webmaster harness for swimming to make it harder.

Funnily enough I was going to try that zooplus harness if he was too exited on the lead but didn't need to - the sensible one was fine.
We did obedience when he was 4 or 5 months old and did basic heel work so he was at the stage where he was fine walking but say if he saw a friend he'd pull to get to them ..Knowing he'd need the second operation and with him getting hurt last time and having to go back on crate rest etc I wanted to prepare as much as possible so I did a 4 week heel work class and worked on pulling to friends etc - he knows all the trainers so they'd walk by him and act as distractions so I could work on getting his attention back to me.

It worked too - very proud lol

Roxbb

r us the self control exercises worked really well - where you throw the treats ahead and don't allow them to have them in class. We practised it so much at home and walking around the park

Agree with TK this is the way to go and the sensible harness is brilliant! There is really no harm in a dog walking on front of you they do have 4 legs after all! Nose to the ground too shouldn't be an issue either it's natural for them to do that..

Try the sensible harness and the training TK suggested

Good luck

Blueprint

tk123 wrote: »

Is your dog doing hydrotherapy to build up the leg? Week 11 of (hopefully)12 starts on Tuesday for us so if the vet gives the go ahead to let him off the lead at 12 weeks I'm going to get him back to hydro asap. He didn't bear weight on his 'new' leg until we did the hydro. He LOVES to swim and was doing 2x10 min sessions with the jets on - he just wears a webmaster harness for swimming to make it harder.

Sadly no, as we are in Galway and the nearest hydrotheraphy is in Dublin or Cork and he really hates cars. With the traditional repair, you're not meant to swim them for a good while anyhow, as it's too violent a movement. It's been a slow old slog, we're six months out at this stage and he's nearly got his full muscle back and seems to be walking perfectly, but is still favouring it when standing still - starting to get a bit worried about this, as I have read that if it continues past six months, it could be a sign of meniscus damage. He has twice managed to strain things slightly by being too bouncy (even old lead...), so that set us back a few weeks.

falabo

ok thanks all for your input/comments/advice

I used the Halti collars again and was able to fit them "oK" and almost had a perfect walk hiwver they are able to take it off (occasionaly)
so I'm going to give te DOGMATIC HEADCOLLAR a go cos I dont think they will be able to remove it

Could anybody advice on what size would be idela for cocker spaniels ?

This crowd DOGMATIC are on ebay but dont reply to messages ....

Thanks

cocker5

falabo wrote: »

ok thanks all for your input/comments/advice

I used the Halti collars again and was able to fit them "oK" and almost had a perfect walk hiwver they are able to take it off (occasionaly)
so I'm going to give te DOGMATIC HEADCOLLAR a go cos I dont think they will be able to remove it

Could anybody advice on what size would be idela for cocker spaniels ?

This crowd DOGMATIC are on ebay but dont reply to messages ....

Thanks

falabo... if i were you i would purchase directly from their website... its what i did....

also i ordered a size 2.... as my cocker is quite a big cocker....

http://www.dogmatic.org.uk/contents/en-uk/d10.html

they def cannot get the dogmatic collars off no matter how hard they try...

best of luck

ISDW

cocker5 wrote: »

falabo... if i were you i would purchase directly from their website... its what i did....

also i ordered a size 2.... as my cocker is quite a big cocker....

http://www.dogmatic.org.uk/contents/en-uk/d10.html

they def cannot get the dogmatic collars off no matter how hard they try...

best of luck

Oh my boy can:rolleyes::D I always put a safety line between the dogmatic and his normal collar just in case.

cocker5

ISDW wrote: »

Oh my boy can:rolleyes::D I always put a safety line between the dogmatic and his normal collar just in case.

you sure its not too big on him? or the size is too big?

falabo

I'm going to order then today so cocker5 will I go for size 1 or 2 ?
Here is a picture of my dogs so you can have an idea. they are not tiny cockers but not the real big males but I suppose big enough girls

Thanks

ISDW

cocker5 wrote: »

you sure its not too big on him? or the size is too big?

No, its not too big, I actually worry that its too small for him, he's just a master of escaping:rolleyes: