vw golf and lancer not starting-possible jump start issue?

malin182

Hey guys, i have an 07 golf that possibly might just have a battery that has now lost its charge (avaerage 3 year lifespan?) but i have had to start it a few times off my friends 08 lancer but only since driving it on tuesday it was gone again last night. 1st question wud be should i just get a new battery? i had my car services about 2 months back and charge test was fine on battery.

the second thing was i was told by someone that jump starting new cars shud be done by only turning the igniton on so that the electrics come on on the car that is supplying the power, turning the engine on can wreck the electrics? either way my friends car is completely dead and was only driven 2 days back.he is adamant he never left the lights on as he gets a very noticable warning when this happens. any advice?

swhyte027

Could be a simple case of two dead battery's or it could be two bad alternators.what u need to do is get them started and check with a multimeter at the batt are they charging.and if the are then do a load test on the battery and make sure the battery's are holding there charge if not get a new one.if there not showing around 14v with the engine running ur altenator is gone.also it could be a case of a blown fuse on the lancer if it's doing noting at all when ur trying to jump it.

malin182

swhyte027 wrote: »

Could be a simple case of two dead battery's or it could be two bad alternators.what u need to do is get them started and check with a multimeter at the batt are they charging.and if the are then do a load test on the battery and make sure the battery's are holding there charge if not get a new one.if there not showing around 14v with the engine running ur altenator is gone.also it could be a case of a blown fuse on the lancer if it's doing noting at all when ur trying to jump it.

Thanks, I didn’t even try and start the car once the lancer was discovered to be dead. Would they not have done that check in the garage at the time of the service to check the charge on the battery was ok? It was about 2 months ago though and I have heard they can lose their charge all of a sudden. Would 3 years be a good estimate to expect a battery to be replaced?

Avns1s

malin182 wrote: »

Thanks, I didn’t even try and start the car once the lancer was discovered to be dead. Would they not have done that check in the garage at the time of the service to check the charge on the battery was ok? It was about 2 months ago though and I have heard they can lose their charge all of a sudden. Would 3 years be a good estimate to expect a battery to be replaced?

3 years is a bit soon for the original battery to need replacing but far from impossible. "Checking the charge" in the battery is not a service item. Checking connections and the green "indicator" (if present) is about as far as it goes unless the battery is giving trouble.

You need to carry out the tests mentioned by swhyte and go from there.

Chimaera

malin182 wrote: »

the second thing was i was told by someone that jump starting new cars shud be done by only turning the igniton on so that the electrics come on on the car that is supplying the power, turning the engine on can wreck the electrics? either way my friends car is completely dead and was only driven 2 days back.he is adamant he never left the lights on as he gets a very noticable warning when this happens. any advice?

Absolutely not. The booster car must be running and have the revs up a bit to provide a decent amount of energy to power its own electrics plus boost the second car.

You do need to avoid connecting battery to battery directly. Positive to positive, and negative from the booster battery to an earth point on the car being boosted.

By the sounds of it here, both batteries are fried.

Ded_Zebra

^^^^^^^^^
"You do need to avoid connecting battery to battery directly. Positive to positive, and negative from the booster battery to an earth point on the car being boosted."


total rubbish, battery to battery is the best way to jump start a car as a good connection is much more lightly.

mathepac

Chimaera wrote: »

... You do need to avoid connecting battery to battery directly. Positive to positive, and negative from the booster battery to an earth point on the car being boosted. ...

+1 Be ultra careful as mis-connecting batteries may fry ECUs, then a dead battery is the least of your problems.

Ded_Zebra

mathepac wrote: »

+1 Be ultra careful as mis-connecting batteries may fry ECUs, then a dead battery is the least of your problems.

Damn Straight !!!!!!!

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/jumpstart-car-fail-0.jpg

rcdk1

Chimaera wrote: »

Absolutely not. The booster car must be running and have the revs up a bit to provide a decent amount of energy to power its own electrics plus boost the second car.

Having the donor car running increases the chances of the ECU (and other electronics) being damaged. The donor battery should be more than capable of starting the other car, after all it would be expected to start the car it's in from cold.

Ded_Zebra wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^
"You do need to avoid connecting battery to battery directly. Positive to positive, and negative from the booster battery to an earth point on the car being boosted."


total rubbish, battery to battery is the best way to jump start a car as a good connection is much more lightly.

Apart from the bit about having the donor car running, Chimaera's method is correct (i.e. the negative should be connected to an earthing point on the car with the flat battery).

This info comes from the Haynes manual for my car. Also here are some online guides found through Google:
http://www.edmunds.com/how-to/jump-start.html
http://www.wikihow.com/Jump-Start-a-Car-With-a-Jump-Starter
http://www.carbuyingtips.com/jumpstart.htm

Ded_Zebra

^^^^^^^^^^^

all this may be the recommended way but I have jumped many cars and have never had a problem. I run the "good" car and connect the batteries directly. I don't understand how this could possibly be a problem as there will be no more current or voltage being drawn or supplied to either car than during normal starting or running of that car by itself .

Avns1s

Ded_Zebra wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^^^

All this may be the recommended way but I have jumped many cars and have never had a problem. I run the "good" car and connect the batteries directly. I don't understand how this could possibly be a problem as there will be no more current or voltage being drawn or supplied to either car than during normal starting or running of that car by itself .

I think the thinking is that you could cause a spark that in theory, could cause the battery to explode if you connect the 2nd terminal whether positive or negative, on the battery. Hence the advice is to connect the positive leads first, then the negative on the doner car first, and then onto the chassis of the the car needing the jump start.

I have for 30 (or more) years, connecting battery to battery without a problem. I won't bother stopping at this stage!!

rcdk1

Ded_Zebra wrote: »

I run the "good" car and connect the batteries directly.

+

Avns1s wrote: »

...you could cause a spark that in theory, could cause the battery to explode if you connect the 2nd terminal whether positive or negative, on the battery.

=

Ded_Zebra wrote: »

The chances of it happening are extremely remote, but why take the chance when the "earthing" method works just fine? I'm not on the road quite as long as Avns1s but I've jump started a couple of cars this way in the last year.

Ded_Zebra

I don't know for sure (not my pic) but i suspect that this fire was caused by connecting the terminals backwards.

malin182

Thanks for all the help folks, going to try starting it shortly using the ground method. Once done I have a mate's garage sorting me out with a new battery because this situation has been happening to me way too often!

malin182

Got it sorted, battery was just too old thankfully. I tried the jump using the grounded method but even after leaving the doner car running for a few mins it wasnt enough. I tried connecting directly and it worked. This is my mates garage in case anyone is interested.

http://www.ianrautoservices.com/

Avns1s

Ded_Zebra wrote: »

I don't know for sure (not my pic) but i suspect that this fire was caused by connecting the terminals backwards.

I would agree. The chances of batteries exploding because of a spark when jump starting is more than extremely remote. Remember you are in the open air as well generally speaking as cars rarely let you down and need jumpstarting when in a garage or shed. The extra air movement outside makes it well beyond "remote" in my opinion.

Having said that, if people prefer to use the "grounded" method, then do that.

Chimaera

I think the main argument against connecting the batteries directly is that it can put too much current back into the dead battery and boil the electrolyte shortening its life a lot.