Dublin Cyclist Hit By No. 11 Bus (05/01/12) - Stephen's Green - Mod Warning Post #1

cormie

Captured this today. Cyclist appeared to be ok, still conscious, asking for their bike to be looked after etc so best wishes to her. Shows the importance of looking both ways even if you think you're in the clear. Video available in HD on the actual youtube page (not embedded) and you can see a bit clearer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxxCCpdQ7Xw

This occurred at 17:15 on 05 January 2012 (The hardware in the recorder is set at CET) at the junction of Hume Street facing Stephen's Green, recorded from a DRS1100 dash cam fitted to my van. The cyclist on the left in the orange attire was waiting to turn right and didn't see the approaching bus, or cyclist 2 meters in front of the bus, as he pulled out, the cyclist who was cycling parallel with the bus tried to avoid him as he jammed on and she ended up stopping and almost falling to her right into the path of the bus which hit her and knocked her back, into the cyclist in the orange. Ambulance and fire brigade arrived within about 6/7 minutes. She appeared to be ok so best wishes go out to her, she was asking about her bike and if somebody could take it, which the bus driver did. Garda were later on the scene and took witness statements aswell as statements from the orange cyclist and bus driver. This video will also be presented to the Dublin Castle Garda station for their review.

Mod Warning - we had a discussion about whether we should take this thread down, because we do not know the condition of the cyclist (although the OP's comments provide some assurance), and some posters were starting to apportion blame. However clear the situation may appear on the video, it is not for us to decide who was at fault.

Hence although we are leaving the thread up, please do not make any further comments on who is at fault - Court proceedings on this incident cannot be ruled out.

Thanks

Beasty

GTDolanator

FOOK! what time was this at?

outroar

Oh... Hope the cyclist was fully ok!

Just curious... why were you recording or what were you recording before this happened?

cormie

It was at 17:15. I have a dash cam set up in my van, it basically records on a continuous loop as soon as I turn the engine on. It has a G-Sensor so if this is activated (car hit, huge pothole, turning too fast, spinning out of control etc) it records a 20 second clip which can't be recorded over, the rest of the space on the memory card is then recorded over continuously, in this case, I hit the emergency button which saved the 10 or so seconds before and after pressing it.

Chartsengrafs

Thanks for the advice and all but...

this is all a bit strange. I know what someone getting hit by a vehicle looks like. If I was in an accident like this I'm not sure I'd be too keen on it being broadcasted. What good does it do? Really hope the lady in question is OK.

outroar

That is really good idea.
I always do wonder about videos like that, or them stupid funny ones and think what the hell were you recording before the situation or funny bit happened..

cormie

Basster wrote: »

Thanks for the advice and all but...

this is all a bit strange. I know what someone getting hit by a vehicle looks like. If I was in an accident like this I'm not sure I'd be too keen on it being broadcasted. What good does it do? Really hope the lady in question is OK.

I posted the video simply for anyone interested to see it. This could be the 2 cyclists involved, the driver or any witnesses and of course the Garda also. It's not graphic and there are no names given either, those who were in it know who they are. Also to highlight the importance of just being more aware out there. I drive a lot and see far too many close calls, what makes people learn, I don't know, but hopefully this will help somewhat. It's strange when you see it happen right in front of you.

John_Rambo

Basster wrote: »

I know what someone getting hit by a vehicle looks like. If I was in an accident like this I'm not sure I'd be too keen on it being broadcasted

Well, I'm going to be more vigilant at stop signs from now on. Thanks Cormie.

Slideshowbob

Basster wrote: »

Thanks for the advice and all but...

this is all a bit strange. I know what someone getting hit by a vehicle looks like. If I was in an accident like this I'm not sure I'd be too keen on it being broadcasted. What good does it do? Really hope the lady in question is OK.

Welcome to the world of social media!!!

Looks to me like it was the cyclist's fault for pulling out in front of the bus?!?

The thread title is a bit misleading in fairness to the bus driver

username2010

That is pretty scary....

I cycle myself, and you really are quite vulnerable, but ultimately it shows that whether a cyclist, motorist, pedestrian or whatever you can't switch off for a minute - you have to be aware the whole time.

Cyclist was very lucky, that looks like it could have been a lot worse. Hope she recovers. Hope the bus driver is fine too, has to be a big shock to his/her system too.

cormie

The driver was quite shook up. Good reaction on his part though, he came to a stop very quickly. It could have been a lot worse. My own guess is that the orange cyclist would be at fault also. I'm not sure how liable a cyclist can be though?

It's ironic, the cyclist who got hit probably stopped the orange cyclist from being completely run over while the bus driver is probably the one who has to defend himself most strongly from fault.

Chartsengrafs

John_Rambo wrote: »

Well, I'm going to be more vigilant at stop signs from now on. Thanks Cormie.

Indeed. Would never have known what might happen otherwise :rolleyes:

Slideshowbob..I think you get what I mean. And fair enough Cormie.

manwithaplan

Isn't that a contraflow bus and cycle lane?

Doctor Bob

manwithaplan wrote: »

Isn't that a contraflow bus and cycle lane?

Nope. It's Bus Only, though there are probably more bikes than buses in it every day. (A fair few cars too.)

manwithaplan

manwithaplan wrote: »

Isn't that a contraflow bus and cycle lane?

Bus only. Either way you can't pull out in front of traffic though.

Crow92

Doctor Bob wrote: »

Nope. It's Bus Only, though there are probably more bikes than buses in it every day. (A fair few cars too.)

I wonder if the gardai have pulled anyone over for using it. I used it a lot last year going over to college from the northside. subsequently found the the samuel beckett bridge drastically shortened the journey:D

Doctor Bob

I've never seen anyone pulled, and I suspect most people don't know that cyclists aren't permitted to use it. It can also be messy at the Leeson Street junction, if cyclists are blocking left-turning buses.

I've used it in the past too (before enlightenment), and had one very close call a few years ago when a motorbike pulling out of Hume Street didn't see me and shaved my back wheel.

BostonB

It just illustrates how fallible we all can be at observation.

On a seperate issue, why are these lanes closed to cyclists? Lesson St lwr is aswell.

cormie

The lanes are really only wide enough for a bus, without it having to keep a safe distance from cyclists, also there are barriers between the contra flow and with flow lanes in spots so It's probably so the lanes aren't slowed down?

BostonB

The lanes are very short. its only going delay a bus a minute or two. A cyclist has to cycle a fairly circular route around to avoid them.

Cookie_Monster

BostonB wrote: »

The lanes are very short. its only going delay a bus a minute or two. A cyclist has to cycle a fairly circular route around to avoid them.

that's no more an excuse to use them than it is for cycling on the footpad...

tomasrojo

I think contraflows by default are exclusive to buses. I'm not sure whether there is a legal prohibition on ever allowing others to use them, but the official sign for a contraflow doesn't have a bicycle on it.



while the others bus signs do have a bicycle:

BostonB

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

that's no more an excuse to use them than it is for cycling on the footpad...

My question is why do they exist at all. I dunno why you think I was defending using them.

ThisRegard

That junction is a pain in the ass to get out of in a car on a busy evening, if I was on the bike I'd probably go up to the pedestrian crossing up to the right.

Cookie_Monster

We're you stuck there long, the lane can be a disaster there if there's an accident, buses stuck with no escape due to the barriers, Hume street blocked by that etc...

BostonB wrote: »

My question is why do they exist at all. I dunno why you think I was defending using them.

just some Friday humour...

why to contra flows exist? To facilitate public transport usage by making it faster and more direct, there should be more of them; the bottom of Grafton between Suffolk and College Green should definitely be one.

Mr. Presentable

Well done the bus driver! <snip>

Paparazzo

Crow92 wrote: »

I wonder if the gardai have pulled anyone over for using it. I used it a lot last year going over to college from the northside. subsequently found the the samuel beckett bridge drastically shortened the journey:D

I drive down that section of stephens green every day and always take a look to see who's using it. Because there's almost always bicycles in it, and the odd car too. Saw cars being stopped there a few times, never a bike.


Cookie_Monster, that would be a great spot for a contra flow, wonder why there isn't one? All the buses going north are bottlenecked into one lane on Nassau Street anyway. Would get rid of that disaster of a section around by the tourist office/O'neills pub

Tenzor07

Why they have created a narrow contra-flow bus lane with no cycle lane is just typical of city planners who don't actually cycle!

The other side of the road is plenty wide enough, however the road marking are pretty much non-existant!

BostonB

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

...why to contra flows exist? To facilitate public transport usage by making it faster and more direct, there should be more of them; the bottom of Grafton between Suffolk and College Green should definitely be one.

No why can't cyclists use them. They are so short a bus wouldn't be held up for long, or get up to max speed anyway.

BostonB

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Why they have created a narrow contra-flow bus lane with no cycle lane is just typical of city planners who don't actually cycle!

The other side of the road is plenty wide enough, however the road marking are pretty much non-existant!

Actually the other side of the road is arguably too wide. It moves 4 lanes into 2 in no order. its just chaos usually. In the middle of all that merging you have this side road with people trying to launch themselves into all the merging. Madness.

Tenzor07

BostonB wrote: »

Actually the other side of the road is arguably too wide. It moves 4 lanes into 2 in no order. its just chaos usually. In the middle of all that merging you have this side road with people trying to launch themselves into all the merging. Madness.

No doubt it will change again when the city planner responsible gets some new paper and crayons...

check_six

Contraflow bus lanes are supposed to be bus only, but if you follow this one around Stephen's Green to Leeson St there is a cycle lane marked out in the contraflow on Lwr Leeson St. I don't think there is any bus&bike sign there, however.

I cycle out of Hume St regularly, and I used to use the bus contraflow as well. When using Hume St you can't see to your right (the direction the buses come from) till you get to the Stop sign, so you have to remember to stop!

Going the other way was interesting, most vehicle types would pull out in front of you to a greater or lesser extent from Hume St. without looking at all.

You know how people can look you right in the eye and move out into your path anyway? Well, a lot of these guys didn't even swing their heads in the direction of the contraflow lane before rolling out into it. I did see it happen with buses bearing down on them as well as just me on my bike.

BostonB

check_six wrote: »

Contraflow bus lanes are supposed to be bus only, but if you follow this one around Stephen's Green to Leeson St there is a cycle lane marked out in the contraflow on Lwr Leeson St. I don't think there is any bus&bike sign there, however. ...

Theres a bus only sign on Lwr Leeson St. But I think its only up to Upr Pembroke street. So its a "bus only" lane for 250m. The lights at that junction only change for bus'es not bike. (so I'm told...)

check_six

BostonB wrote: »

Theres a bus only sign on Lwr Leeson St. But I think its only up to Upr Pembroke street. So its a "bus only" lane for 250m. The lights at that junction only change for bus'es not bike. (so I'm told...)

Yes, the lights are bus triggered (I may have been 'told' that by the same person who 'told' you!), but there is definitely a cycle lane painted on the road.

I cannot believe for one moment that Dublin Corpo would design a confusing contradictory mixed up road layout and just hope for the best? Would they? Say it ain't so!

BostonB

Well theres a "lane" on the one side, but no cycle markings. There is a cycle marking (on the road) at he other end, so for me that makes the top half a cycle lane and the bottom half isn't.

As its a major cycle route, I'd question the wisdom a bus only contra flow at that point.

Max Power1

<snip>
I hope that the driver's career is not affected, and, if I was the investigating garda, I would prosecute the cyclist for dangerous cycling & for failure to adhere to a road sign.

Hungrycol

I watched this three times and I can't see anything! Just a bus stopping suddenly.

kate.m

I didnt know that was a bus only lane...I dont use the route a lot anyway but I won't use it again now..

doozerie

cormie wrote: »

Captured this today. Cyclist appeared to be ok, still conscious, asking for their bike to be looked after etc so best wishes to her. Shows the importance of looking both ways even if you think you're in the clear. Video available in HD on the actual youtube page (not embedded) and you can see a bit clearer.

Fair play for stopping to help out. It's easy to assume that someone else will do so instead and to just avoid the hassle by passing by, it's very considerate to go the trouble of lending a helping hand yourself.

doozerie

Hungrycol wrote: »

I watched this three times and I can't see anything! Just a bus stopping suddenly.

Well at least you saw the bus, which seems to be more than can be said for the cyclist in orange.

GlennaMaddy

I saw the bus and the orange cyclist, but can't see the 'other' cyclist. Nice system you have in your van cornie

check_six

Max Power1 wrote: »

<snip>
I hope that the driver's career is not affected, and, if I was the investigating garda, I would prosecute the cyclist for dangerous cycling & for failure to adhere to a road sign.

Well, I don't know if it is that clear. It's one of those odd one's where the person who ignited the incident doesn't really get affected by it as much as the other two parties.

For those who can't make out the video (or read the earlier posts!;)), the guy in orange edges out into the lane, a lady cyclist jams on to avoid hitting him and the bus runs into the back and side of the lady cyclist, who in turn bumps the guy in orange a bit.

The guy in orange shouldn't have edged out, the bus maybe should have been a bit further back from the lady, and the lady maybe should not have been in the lane in the first place.

I had a spill once where a car made a right turn across me, I jammed on to the point where I ended up hitting the deck and sliding along the road. The guy in the car paused for a moment, and then drove off. He was entirely unaffected by the crash which he had caused. so unaffected that he didn't feel any compunction to hang about to see if I was okay. If he had dared to peek in his rear view he would have seen that I was mostly okay apart from the ferocious amount of steam pouring out of my ears and ungentlemanly language pouring out of my mouth! Hate those type of incidents (crash causer gets to saunter off oblivious).

Paparazzo

check_six wrote: »

I had a spill once where a car made a right turn across me, I jammed on to the point where I ended up hitting the deck and sliding along the road. The guy in the car paused for a moment, and then drove off. He was entirely unaffected by the crash which he had caused. so unaffected that he didn't feel any compunction to hang about to see if I was okay. If he had dared to peek in his rear view he would have seen that I was mostly okay apart from the ferocious amount of steam pouring out of my ears and ungentlemanly language pouring out of my mouth! Hate those type of incidents (crash causer gets to saunter off oblivious).

I'd wait at that junction every day till the same fúcker drove past and follow him home!

Beasty

OK - we had a discussion about whether we should take this thread down, because we do not know the condition of the cyclist (although the OP's comments provide some assurance), and some posters were starting to apportion blame. However clear the situation may appear on the video, it is not for us to decide who was at fault.

Hence although we are leaving the thread up, please do not make any further comments on who is at fault - Court proceedings on this incident cannot be ruled out.

Thanks

Beasty

BostonB

These bus only lanes are not usual around the city. So many people simply wouldn't even be aware they exist or the meanings of the signs.

The other issue is why one small strip of (badly design road) singled out to be bus only. There's little logic to it in the first place. Also there always cyclists in these lanes, so its not working anyway.

BostonB

check_six wrote: »

...
I had a spill once where a car made a right turn across me,..

On Hume St, anytime I've been up there, there is always people using the bus lane to skip the queue and make a right turn across the other cars waiting on Hume st. some days theres even a tailback of 20 cars waiting to do it. Yet I've never seen a Garda here ever.

If you are going to design a daft road layout then not enforce it, then this kinda stuff is going to happen all the time.

check_six

Paparazzo wrote: »

I'd wait at that junction every day till the same f***er drove past and follow him home!

Nice obsessive vengeful bloodlust! I would very much like to subscribe to your newsletter.

You might be interested in my concept of an annual "Pot Shot Day". Everyone picks an person they would like to wreak a vendetta on. One person is picked at random to have a pot shot at their enemy. To give the shootee a sporting chance the shooter has to wear a blindfold and only has the one bullet. It'd be great on TV and it beat the hell out of any of those makey uppy 'hallmark' holidays like valentine's day, or christmas...

Who's with me??

nomdeboardie

Horrible, horrible junction; bad enough in a car. My morning cycle commute used to include coming right out of Hume St and then having to get across to the left side of the road to avoid being swept down Dawson St - very stressful. Can't understand why ther aren't lights there.

cormie

Glad to report that I was speaking to somebody from Dublin Bus today who reported that the cyclist is ok, just a bit bruised. I directed them to the youtube video also. Never heard back from the Garda yet.