Anti-gay: visit-salzburg.net

john_reilly74

I have a good mind to write to them!
The owners of this website aim to provide visitors with independent information in English about the city of Salzburg and its surroundings.  Found their views about gay people somewhat bigotted. Their gripe seems to be with the Austrian tourism board whose advertising campaigns target gay people with disposable income, not to mention providing services for this group that traditionally were non existent - so playing catch up. Gay friendly bars or accommodation are not exclusively for gay people, so marketing exclusively hetero services would be a backward step and discriminatory.
    
"And this is exactly where we are getting annoyed: The tourism mafia behaves as if the needs and interests of homosexual guests were in some way fundamentally different from the rest of Salzburg′s millions of visitors. Have you ever come across a "hetero-friedly hotel"? Seen an article on "Salzburg for Heteros"? We haven′t, and we think that most prospective visitors of Salzburg will find plenty of useful information on our website regardless of their sexual orientation."
http://www.visit-salzburg.net/travel/gay-lesbian.htm

number10a

I'd be inclined to agree with them to a point. A gay visitor's requirements (well mine anyway) are not any different to a straight visitors requirements, especially in somewhere like Austria. You don't see tourism sites with sections like "Salzburg for Blacks" or "Salzburg for Protestants", so really why should there be a Gay section. Understandably, explicitly gay pubs could be listed in a bars page just like jazz, rock and sports bars would be categorised.

Another point is that the writers of this page may well be native German speakers, rather than English speakers. Now, while their English is flawless, they may not get the subtleties that we English speakers notice. The article does sound harsh to us, but probably not to them. If they're translating from German, remember that German is a much more direct and to the point language than English is.

In short, I think you're getting worked up over nothing, or looking to be offended.

baby and crumble

TBH I think they have a point. I hate the fact that it's assumed I have specialist needs when booking a holiday, or the assumption i'm loaded with money since i don't have kids. If anything, they're arguing a case that everywhere should be equally as interesting to gay people and straight people, and just as accessible. I won't necessarily book a hotel in a 'gay' or 'gay friendly' hotel, because they tend to be that bit more upmarket/ expensive,and anyway, my basic rights in most countries I would care to visit means that they can't refuse a room to my partner and I because we're lesbian. I'd have no problem making it into a a very very big deal if they tried.

john_reilly74

number10a wrote:

I'd be inclined to agree with them to a point. A gay visitor's requirements (well mine anyway) are not any different to a straight visitors requirements, especially in somewhere like Austria. You don't see tourism sites with sections like "Salzburg for Blacks" or "Salzburg for Protestants", so really why should there be a Gay section. Understandably, explicitly gay pubs could be listed in a bars page just like jazz, rock and sports bars would be categorised.

Another point is that the writers of this page may well be native German speakers, rather than English speakers. Now, while their English is flawless, they may not get the subtleties that we English speakers notice. The article does sound harsh to us, but probably not to them. If they're translating from German, remember that German is a much more direct and to the point language than English is.

In short, I think you're getting worked up over nothing, or looking to be offended.

Your glibness mirrors the tone of the website, both of which disingenuously purport that minorities get treated in the same way as the majority. A gay couple in Cork or Salzburg showing affection in public the same way as a man and woman have to expect some reaction, perceived or otherwise. And coming out can be hugely challenging for most. Understandably many prefer to avoid problems by booking into gay friendly accommodation or socialise in an environment with people their romantic interest. Their needs are completely different, and has completely nothing to do with putting up a "Salzburg for Gays" sign. That's what i feel the writers glossed over and didn't put a fine point on it... whatever their point was?

jaffacakesyum

john_reilly74 wrote: »

Your glibness mirrors the tone of the website, both of which disingenuously purport that minorities get treated in the same way as the majority. A gay couple in Cork or Salzburg showing affection in public the same way as a man and woman have to expect some reaction, perceived or otherwise. And coming out can be hugely challenging for most. Understandably many prefer to avoid problems by booking into gay friendly accommodation or socialise in an environment with people their romantic interest. Their needs are completely different, and has completely nothing to do with putting up a "Salzburg for Gays" sign. That's what i feel the writers glossed over and didn't put a fine point on it... whatever their point was?

I'm bi (but practically gay :pac:) so you may not want my opinion but who are you to say 'their needs are different'. You can't speak for all gays/lesbians/bi's in the world. My needs are no different from any other person (straight) visiting a new country.

Captain Graphite

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

I'm bi (but practically gay :pac:) so you may not want my opinion but who are you to say 'their needs are different'. You can't speak for all gays/lesbians/bi's in the world. My needs are no different from any other person (straight) visiting a new country.

+1 (including the 'bi but practically gay' bit! :pac:)

My only qualm with the piece in that link would be with the description of Austria as "thoroughly conservative" - they may not be the Netherlands but they're hardly the Vatican either!

john_reilly74

jaffacakesyum wrote:

john_reilly74 wrote: »

Your glibness mirrors the tone of the website, both of which disingenuously purport that minorities get treated in the same way as the majority. A gay couple in Cork or Salzburg showing affection in public the same way as a man and woman have to expect some reaction, perceived or otherwise. And coming out can be hugely challenging for most. Understandably many prefer to avoid problems by booking into gay friendly accommodation or socialise in an environment with people their romantic interest. Their needs are completely different, and has completely nothing to do with putting up a "Salzburg for Gays" sign. That's what i feel the writers glossed over and didn't put a fine point on it... whatever their point was?

I'm bi (but practically gay :pac:) so you may not want my opinion but who are you to say 'their needs are different'. You can't speak for all gays/lesbians/bi's in the world. My needs are no different from any other person (straight) visiting a new country.

Slow down. In the piece they gave out about a bunch of rich gays to whom Salzburg's tourism mafia are pandering. Why didn't the writers just argue that money be spend on more inclusive advertisements? Hotel for heteros is crass and beside the point! Imagine the reaction if they began giving out about marketing funds being used to target wealthy Japanese as opposed to middle class subsaharan Africans? Because it's Marketing stupid!

fluffybiscuits

Why are the needs of us gays special? Are we a different species or something? Sorry but couldnt give a flying donkeys pal really. I would go there for the beer, the football and a bit of sight seeing.I dont go abroad for a gay holiday . ...

john_reilly74

fluffybiscuits wrote:

Why are the needs of us gays special? Are we a different species or something? Sorry but couldnt give a flying donkeys pal really. I would go there for the beer, the football and a bit of sight seeing.I dont go abroad for a gay holiday . ...

My expectations going on hols are exactly as yours. It is the mean spirited nature of the piece that bugs me, concealing an anti gay bias.

Annasopra

fluffybiscuits wrote: »

Why are the needs of us gays special? Are we a different species or something? Sorry but couldnt give a flying donkeys pal really. I would go there for the beer, the football and a bit of sight seeing.I dont go abroad for a gay holiday . ...

Fair enough - some LGBT do want to know what a place is like before they go on holidays - such as laws, culture - I don't see a problem with travel books or websites including an LGBT section

Untense

The site has a somewhat controversial tone, such as use of the term 'bumfun'.

Regardless of the writer's opinion on what they believe the "conservative" population of the city want, there is a big market for d'gays, which is why the "tourism mafia" are targeting them.

As much as there are gay people who are happy to do standard touristy things, there are many who do actively seek out "gay friendly" accommodation and/or gay resorts.

The writer obviously has a bit of ignorance, if he legitimately wonders why accommodation need advertise as "gay-friendly". They obviously never experienced the situation I've experienced with a particular sort of hotel manager


But whatever. Look at the state of the site. It's not an official resource. One possibly ignorant person in a sea of many. If you really care enough, send the owner an email. Otherwise you're pointlessly giving yourself wrinkles.

Conor30

Having had a look at the website, it sounds to me like the writers are slightly annoyed at how they see LGBT people being almost 'exploited' by the 'ruthless' proprietors in Salzburg!!:D

The reality is, some LGBT people do like to attend gay bars and stay in hotels that are particularly welcoming to the LGBT community, so there is still a need for specific LGBT provision, in my opinion, especially since Austria is a "thoroughly conservative" country, as the writers themselves points out!

The whole website reads almost like someone's personal blog. It's probably aimed at wealthy Americans. I wouldn't get too hung up about it!

fluffybiscuits

mango salsa wrote: »

Fair enough - some LGBT do want to know what a place is like before they go on holidays - such as laws, culture - I don't see a problem with travel books or websites including an LGBT section

Nothing wrong with an LGBT section, most of the Lonely Planet guides have them etc but its when we kick up that should be treated as if we are special that I get annoyed . Most places have an LGBT section and you hit on a good point about the laws, it is useful to know what is legal and not legal

john_reilly74

The OP didn't create thread to kick up that LGBT deserve special treatment. He just wanted to highlight what i still think to be the wrong interpretation by the website's contributor. To suggest gay friendly accommodation equates to unnecessary pandering and is to the exclusion of heteros is simply ludicrous! LGBT are a minority and estimates number them at anywhere between 10-20% of the overall population. Had they put forward an argument that showed an excess proportion of such lodgings then I would not have batted an eyelid. When any fool can see they are motivated by prejudice in spewing nonsense like "Oh what would people say if we advertise exclusively hetero accommodation?". What they are really saying is we don't like the gays and think they have too many rights

Annasopra

john_reilly74 wrote: »

The OP didn't create thread to kick up that LGBT deserve special treatment. He just wanted to highlight what i still think to be the wrong interpretation by the website's contributor. To suggest gay friendly accommodation equates to unnecessary pandering and is to the exclusion of heteros is simply ludicrous! LGBT are a minority and estimates number them at anywhere between 10-20% of the overall population. Had they put forward an argument that showed an excess proportion of such lodgings then I would not have batted an eyelid. When any fool can see they are motivated by prejudice in spewing nonsense like "Oh what would people say if we advertise exclusively hetero accommodation?". What they are really saying is we don't like the gays and think they have too many rights

To be honest - I'm completely ambivalent on this

baby and crumble

john_reilly74 wrote: »

The OP didn't create thread to kick up that LGBT deserve special treatment. He just wanted to highlight what i still think to be the wrong interpretation by the website's contributor. To suggest gay friendly accommodation equates to unnecessary pandering and is to the exclusion of heteros is simply ludicrous! LGBT are a minority and estimates number them at anywhere between 10-20% of the overall population. Had they put forward an argument that showed an excess proportion of such lodgings then I would not have batted an eyelid. When any fool can see they are motivated by prejudice in spewing nonsense like "Oh what would people say if we advertise exclusively hetero accommodation?". What they are really saying is we don't like the gays and think they have too many rights

I think that's one interpretation of what they're saying, but it's not my interpretation.

Slang_Tang

I'm a bit ambivalent about the website, too. I mean they give information. The only iffy bit is the "suspicious extent" of LGBT advertising.

But I'd disagree with some posters above. I think often LGBT people (couples especially) do require separate travel information on safety, local attitudes to homosexuality, etc. If you're just visiting London, for example, then fine, you've probably nothing to worry about; but if you're visiting other large chunks of the world, it's best to be well informed.