Fantasy Bus/Rail Hub in Dublin

Rock of Gibraltar

Hi,

I reckon one of the many problems with public transport in Dublin is the lack of integrated transport hubs connecting buses trams and trains.
Heuston Station with a luas stop and bus terminus outside is step in the right direction but it's just not comparable to the hubs you find on continental Europe and the UK.

So I propose flattening Hawkins House, Apollo House and the small building between Tara DART station and Tara Street and constructing a large bus station on that site with a over road walkway connecting with Tara Station.

So on one side you'd have the train station, then the bus station and then on Hawkins street the Luas, once BXD is constructed.

Route as many buses through there as possible and allow buses to dwell there rather than on Eden Quay.

What do you think?

paulm17781

That was the point of Dart Underground. One line linking all modes of public transport in the city.

strassenwo!f

paulm17781 wrote: »

That was the point of Dart Underground. One line linking all modes of public transport in the city.

According to you though, that was only one of the points of Dart Underground.

Read Paul's stuff here

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055531246&page=13

Judgement Day

I'm for anything that involves flattening the awful Hawkins House and it would be a good idea in principal - especially if it incorporated the Luas Green Line.


Unbelievable that such a pile of ****e was knocked down years ago!

gibo_ie

How about using the current CIE owned site just off the Luas stop at Jervis (Vehicle Entrance off Abbey Street and Strand Street Great)
http://maps.google.ie/maps?saddr=Abbey+Cottages&hl=en&sll=53.347368,-6.263875&sspn=0.002335,0.005681&geocode=FWYELgMdummg_w&vpsrc=0&mra=mr&t=h&z=18
While not connected to mainline rail it is a great spot for having a DB terminus and remove a lot of standing traffic from some of the quays, also adding a very convenient DB terminus to the city center.
I know that DB previously were looking into using the ground level and having offices built overhead but thats unlikely to happen in the near future but using it as a terminus could be a very quick turnaround and link nicely with current Red Luas.

donvito99

Its such a grotty (and unsafe) area that desperately needs rejuventation. How could the Green Line be routed this way though?

LaFlammeRouge

There was plans to build a new intercity bus terminal on the Car Park of Connolly Station. http://maps.google.com/maps?q=dublin&hl=en&ll=53.35237,-6.244955&spn=0.001816,0.005284&sll=-39.35129,174.353027&sspn=9.631238,21.643066&vpsrc=6&hnear=Dublin,+County+Dublin,+Ireland&t=h&z=18

Why bother with a terminal for Dublin Bus? It would slow their operation down and with the new cross city bus routes every bus route crosses any other at some point.

Cool Mo D

LaFlammeRouge wrote: »

There was plans to build a new intercity bus terminal on the Car Park of Connolly Station. http://maps.google.com/maps?q=dublin&hl=en&ll=53.35237,-6.244955&spn=0.001816,0.005284&sll=-39.35129,174.353027&sspn=9.631238,21.643066&vpsrc=6&hnear=Dublin,+County+Dublin,+Ireland&t=h&z=18

Why bother with a terminal for Dublin Bus? It would slow their operation down and with the new cross city bus routes every bus route crosses any other at some point.

There are, and even after network direct there will still be, lots of Dublin bus services terminating in the city, scattered around Abbey street, Pearse street, Merrion Square, Parnell Square, Eden Quay, etc. If you had a proper terminus, next to DART or Luas, you make transfers between modes easier, waiting for the buses more pleasant, with ticket machines and coffee shops out of the weather, and you make timetabling easier, since all your drivers and buses meet up at the same place.

Obviously the cross city buses wouldn't use it, but it would be so much handier for all the other routes. It would also free up a lot of road space in the city for wider footpaths, cyclists, and bus lanes. The same setup works very well in cities Dublin's size all over Europe.

One of Dublin's big publiv transport problems it that modes are not integrated physically, or ticketed. Most bus routes do not stop outside or beside a train or Luas station even though they may pass quite close, especially in the city.

L1011

Why does CIE even still own that land? Should have sold it a decade or more ago. Clearly the Jervis Hospital bus station isn't going to happen now....

DWCommuter

Judgement Day wrote: »

I'm for anything that involves flattening the awful Hawkins House and it would be a good idea in principal - especially if it incorporated the Luas Green Line.


Unbelievable that such a pile of ****e was knocked down years ago!

If you are for anything, then I suggest that you leave your railway cap at the front door and we rebuild the Theatre Royal as it was when demolished in the 1960s. (A little over 30 years after it was rebuilt.) Culture, Transport etc etc means **** all to Irish politicians when they can scheme an office block or two. Has it changed? No it hasn't. Will it? No it won't. Property development is the only talent the Irish had to make economic gains. Sadly its now very much out of fashion.

paulm17781

strassenwo!f wrote: »

According to you though, that was only one of the points of Dart Underground.

Read Paul's stuff here

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055531246&page=13

Indeed, one of the many factors that made it such a great project for Dublin.

Rock of Gibraltar

Though a good and worthwhile project, Dart Underground links the rail transport but doesn't provide real integration with the bus services.

Realistically Dublin should have 3 maybe 4 major bus stations with every bus entering the city visiting at least one.

I'm living in Utrecht in the Netherlands at the moment, there are three bus stations connected to the central train station, there must be about 40 bays. Every bus either passes through or begins at one of the stations.
Dublin is a lot bigger than Utrecht and buses are more important for Dublin than Utrecht yet we don't even have one hub.

MadsL

gibo_ie wrote: »

How about using the current CIE owned site just off the Luas stop at Jervis (Vehicle Entrance off Abbey Street and Strand Street Great)
http://maps.google.ie/maps?saddr=Abbey+Cottages&hl=en&sll=53.347368,-6.263875&sspn=0.002335,0.005681&geocode=FWYELgMdummg_w&vpsrc=0&mra=mr&t=h&z=18
While not connected to mainline rail it is a great spot for having a DB terminus and remove a lot of standing traffic from some of the quays, also adding a very convenient DB terminus to the city center.
I know that DB previously were looking into using the ground level and having offices built overhead but thats unlikely to happen in the near future but using it as a terminus could be a very quick turnaround and link nicely with current Red Luas.

MYOB wrote:

Why does CIE even still own that land? Should have sold it a decade or more ago. Clearly the Jervis Hospital bus station isn't going to happen now...

Because it brings them revenue from advertising (illegally by the way - they have no planning permission)

compare: this with the present situation next time you are down there. Can't find a photo - could someone please take one! Large billboard on this site now with no planning application made.

admiralofthefleet

ive had this idea for years now - close busaras as a bus station and shift it out to grange castle and turn busaras into an underground 'hub' that connects with the mainline across the road at connolly and the luas outside

send an underground line from there out to the bus station in grange castle.

/waits for slagging

dubhthach

Judgement Day wrote: »

I'm for anything that involves flattening the awful Hawkins House and it would be a good idea in principal - especially if it incorporated the Luas Green Line.


Unbelievable that such a pile of ****e was knocked down years ago!

Not only Hawkins house, but Apollo House, the Cinema and the gawd ugly block beside the cinema. You basically could clear that entire block apart from the south-east corner where modern apartment building and "The Long Stone" Pub

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=dublin,+ireland&hl=en&ll=53.345831,-6.2543&spn=0.005021,0.013969&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=52.152749,86.484375&vpsrc=6&hnear=Dublin,+County+Dublin,+Ireland&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=53.345914,-6.2557&panoid=TTmVNAFNmwMXYm5B55892A&cbp=12,295.42,,0,-11.89

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=dublin,+ireland&hl=en&ll=53.345831,-6.2543&spn=0.005021,0.013969&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=52.152749,86.484375&vpsrc=6&hnear=Dublin,+County+Dublin,+Ireland&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=53.345914,-6.2557&panoid=TTmVNAFNmwMXYm5B55892A&cbp=12,295.42,,0,-11.89

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=dublin,+ireland&hl=en&ll=53.345831,-6.2543&spn=0.005021,0.013969&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=52.152749,86.484375&vpsrc=6&hnear=Dublin,+County+Dublin,+Ireland&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=53.345914,-6.2557&panoid=TTmVNAFNmwMXYm5B55892A&cbp=12,295.42,,0,-11.89

Not really on topic of "proposed bus hub" but here are some images of the Theatre Royal that was on site of Hawkins house through the years.

Original - destroyed by fire in 1880


The second Theatre Royal demolished in 1935


Art Deco Theatre Royal that was build in 1936 and demolished in 1960's to make way for Hawkins house

dRNk SAnTA

I've had the same idea as the OP before. Putting buses through the Hawkins site would be a real boost for the city centre environment as well as for our public transport planning.

That part of the city is really drab and Hawkins house is one of the worst buildings in the city. They're about to build the public transport bridge which will make bus access to this site much easier, and going to be running one of the Luas BxD lines very close. You've got Tara street station next door and the location is slap bang at the axis of Grafton street, O'Connell street, and Dame streets. Metro North will have a station exit nearby on Westmoreland street.

Routing bus traffic through hawkins house would relieve College Green and Westmoreland St of most of their congestion and open up the possibility of pedestrianisation which i believe would be transform the city centre for the better.

paulm17781

dRNk SAnTA wrote: »

Routing bus traffic through hawkins house would relieve College Green and Westmoreland St of most of their congestion and open up the possibility of pedestrianisation which i believe would be transform the city centre for the better.

That's a particularily good point and one I hadn't thought of. Anything to clear traffic out from college green.

dubhthach

I could imagine freeing up some of the bus locations in and around the South Quays would allow for their "redevelopment" in a more pedestrian friendly way. At the moment it's basically all a glorified bus stop.

D.L.R.

I think the state's attitude to "land" is still too backwards to be able to achieve such grand aims.

God knows a more aggressive transport policy for the city would be nice.. and flattening Hawkins would be a good day for Dublin.

As it is, the state is impotent and the existence of CIE makes any kind of progress difficult.

dRNk SAnTA

How does one go about getting this idea talked about? I'd love to know what a group like the Dublin Civic Trust would make of it.

If you built a bus station on this site, could you pedestrianise College Green + Westmoreland Street and send buses the long way around Trinity (via Westland Row)?

bk

LaFlammeRouge wrote: »

There was plans to build a new intercity bus terminal on the Car Park of Connolly Station. http://maps.google.com/maps?q=dublin&hl=en&ll=53.35237,-6.244955&spn=0.001816,0.005284&sll=-39.35129,174.353027&sspn=9.631238,21.643066&vpsrc=6&hnear=Dublin,+County+Dublin,+Ireland&t=h&z=18

Actually this is a brilliant idea, any links to further info about it?

It would be the ideal location for an intercity coach hub for Bus Eireann and the many new private coach operators. Well connected with DART, commuter rail and LUAS to the city centre and Hueston Station. Only a short distance, with easy, uncongested access to the port tunnel (thus Dublin Airport and the M50).

It would solve the one issue that exists with the excellent new private intercity coach services being operated by the likes of GoBus and CityLink, you having to wait unsheltered in the cold and rain on the quays.

The Connolly Station car park could be catered for by either going over or under the Coach Terminal.

Judgement Day

The way things are heading, Heuston Station and its extensive yards and carparks will soon be available for your wonderful private coach operators to have as a 'Grand Central' bus station. Can you not hold on for a couple of more years?

bk

Judgement Day wrote: »

The way things are heading, Heuston Station and its extensive yards and carparks will soon be available for your wonderful private coach operators to have as a 'Grand Central' bus station. Can you not hold on for a couple of more years?

Either would do I suppose, as must intercity services other then from the North would pass Hueston, along the quays, past Connelly, through the port tunnel to Dublin Airport.

However I would say Connelly would be better location as it directly connects with the DART and Bus Eireann.