Raft foundation

liamolaighin

Hi my house is to be approx 3,100 sq feet and garage approx 500. Stalled at moment as I need raft rather than traditional foundation. Contracts signed and I feel at the mercy of the builder regarding pricing. We agreed I would pay the difference in price between both systems up to subfloor. Problem is he is now saying original would cost less thn 10,000 and the new subfloor to cost 20000. So he's looking for an extra 10500 for it. Was always 1 layer of steel going in. Extra layer of steel, extra stone & concrete required but there is no digging foundations, dead building etc. Ground dead flat. He is using scaffolding planks for shuttering! Am I being unreasonable in thinking 10500 is excessive??

bruschi

liamolaighin wrote: »

Hi my house is to be approx 3,100 sq feet and garage approx 500. Stalled at moment as I need raft rather than traditional foundation. Contracts signed and I feel at the mercy of the builder regarding pricing. We agreed I would pay the difference in price between both systems up to subfloor. Problem is he is now saying original would cost less thn 10,000 and the new subfloor to cost 20000. So he's looking for an extra 10500 for it. Was always 1 layer of steel going in. Extra layer of steel, extra stone & concrete required but there is no digging foundations, dead building etc. Ground dead flat. He is using scaffolding planks for shuttering! Am I being unreasonable in thinking 10500 is excessive??

the digging was never going to be the main cost. Steel and concrete are expensive, without knowing quantities in the difference there is no way to tell you if he is overcharging.

RADISSON RACER

For sure. Now the cowboys have arrived. 2012 will be bad enough without the rip off artists.

Poor Uncle Tom

liamolaighin wrote: »

Hi my house is to be approx 3,100 sq feet and garage approx 500. Stalled at moment as I need raft rather than traditional foundation. Contracts signed and I feel at the mercy of the builder regarding pricing. We agreed I would pay the difference in price between both systems up to subfloor. Problem is he is now saying original would cost less thn 10,000 and the new subfloor to cost 20000. So he's looking for an extra 10500 for it. Was always 1 layer of steel going in. Extra layer of steel, extra stone & concrete required but there is no digging foundations, dead building etc. Ground dead flat. He is using scaffolding planks for shuttering! Am I being unreasonable in thinking 10500 is excessive??

What is the length x width of the floor area. I know you said 3,100sqft but is that on one floor or two or is it a dormer?work out the difference.

Is there a finished floor being provided for the extra €10,500, does it include radon barrier and insulation? Did the old price include a finished floor, radon barrier and insulation? (my guess is that it didn't include those).

Poor Uncle Tom

RADISSON RACER wrote: »

For sure. Now the cowboys have arrived. 2012 will be bad enough without the rip off artists.

This comment is not helpful to this thread. Until all the information is to hand it can not be determined whether the costs are reflective of the works or not. So, don't jump on the "rip off" bandwagon until we know for sure.

mickdw

€10,000 for digging, pouring strip, blockwork, backfilling stone etc, radon, concrete, steel sounds very very skimpy to me for any sized house.
Do you have a QS?
Was it always a possibility that this was going to go the direction of a raft?

liamolaighin

It was 10000 for subfloor in house. Just digging, steel, concrete, deadwork, hardcore filling, backfilling foundations, and finished subfloor. Garage was being thrown in for free to seal the deal!

I know that I am being taken for a ride as Ive gone and priced materials. Will now save over €1000 in steel alone. The above oroginal figure for normal foundations & subfloor is also a bit off. The breakdown shows they were not subtracting enough concrete, mesh, etc etc. Should save another €1500 there.

All in all I reckon €5000 is closer to a fair figure and he will still make handy money at that.

Incidently, can anyone tell me if the stone laid and compacted outside house and foundations is of any use to the raft. The builder wanted to continue laying stone 5 metres outside of house on all perimetre. Thats a lot of stone! Thats also stone he was supposed to be supplying all along for hard standing areas, parking etc. I've said to allow enough for 2 metres outside house. That provides for footpaths etc and patio. That sound ok?? Also does that stone have any structural function??? Just curious.

Dr. Greenthumb

liamolaighin wrote: »

Hi my house is to be approx 3,100 sq feet and garage approx 500. Stalled at moment as I need raft rather than traditional foundation. Contracts signed and I feel at the mercy of the builder regarding pricing. We agreed I would pay the difference in price between both systems up to subfloor. Problem is he is now saying original would cost less thn 10,000 and the new subfloor to cost 20000. So he's looking for an extra 10500 for it. Was always 1 layer of steel going in. Extra layer of steel, extra stone & concrete required but there is no digging foundations, dead building etc. Ground dead flat. He is using scaffolding planks for shuttering! Am I being unreasonable in thinking 10500 is excessive??

IMO it's excessive.

When you look at the difference between a strip foundation and a raft there shouldn't be a whole lot of difference when you consider the additions and omissions.

There are a few items that should stay the same / be common in both like the ground bearing slab thickness, insulation, radon barrier, edge formworks etc.

Then there will be items they won't need to do such as less excavation, backfilling to said excavations, strip foundation, rising walls etc.

There are additional items like slab thickening for walls (should be a cancel out against the strip foundations on cost), probably additional fill under the footprint of the raft.

Ground conditions are relevant, levels on the site (exisiting compared to floor level) which will affect the additional filling under the raft (filling can be costly).

How did you agree the price, was it just a lump sum you got from him or was there a breakdown (Bill of Quantities). Easiest way to check it is to take the volume of concrete for the original foundation and the new foundation and compare them. If they're roughly the same (which I'd be surprised if they are not) then there should be minimal change in price.

Basically he has double the cost of your foundation which is crazy. Good thing for you is that this happened now on the foundations and not when you were half way through the build. Sounds like he went in too tight on the job and is trying to get money back. He could be like this the whole way through the project in which case you may be finacially safer to get someone else or a QS to monitor the builder throughout the job.

liamolaighin

Dr. Greenthumb wrote: »

IMO it's excessive.

When you look at the difference between a strip foundation and a raft there shouldn't be a whole lot of difference when you consider the additions and omissions.

There are a few items that should stay the same / be common in both like the ground bearing slab thickness, insulation, radon barrier, edge formworks etc.

Then there will be items they won't need to do such as less excavation, backfilling to said excavations, strip foundation, rising walls etc.

There are additional items like slab thickening for walls (should be a cancel out against the strip foundations on cost), probably additional fill under the footprint of the raft.

Ground conditions are relevant, levels on the site (exisiting compared to floor level) which will affect the additional filling under the raft (filling can be costly).

How did you agree the price, was it just a lump sum you got from him or was there a breakdown (Bill of Quantities). Easiest way to check it is to take the volume of concrete for the original foundation and the new foundation and compare them. If they're roughly the same (which I'd be surprised if they are not) then there should be minimal change in price.

Basically he has double the cost of your foundation which is crazy. Good thing for you is that this happened now on the foundations and not when you were half way through the build. Sounds like he went in too tight on the job and is trying to get money back. He could be like this the whole way through the project in which case you may be finacially safer to get someone else or a QS to monitor the builder throughout the job.

Lol you wont believe this but originally he wanted €20000 extra to do a raft instead of the strip. Ground not particularly bad at all. Clay under topsoil was quite bouncy under heavy machinery and was wet at time of excavation so we decided a raft was best option. I also supplied the theram and geogrid for under the stone. So basically its a game of cat and mouse to see when I'll break! I'm fairly in the know and have priced around on materials. My structural engineer reckons €4500 would cover all extras so you can imagine our surprise at €20000. Hoping to get down around €5000 extra not including engineer costs and geogrid + theram. All in maybe €6000 which is still a lot extra unexpected cost.

kboc

depending on how far you have gone down the line of starting the whole project. Call his bluff and tell him to tidy up the work he has done, provide you with an invoice, and pay him.

I am sure he will change his tune then, and will not chance his arm again during the build.

Or maybe, don't call his bluff, and just pay him what he is owed and and get somebody else in, if he starts that craic at the start of build, you will need eyes on the back of your head for the rest of the build

Good luck and never accept second best.

K

sydthebeat

liam, if you posted what specification of raft is being specified, we could be a lot clearer in responses.

in general the differences between strip and raft have narrowed significantly in recent years due to the prevalence of them. but 100% more seems very excessive.

Johnboy1951

kboc wrote: »

depending on how far you have gone down the line of starting the whole project. Call his bluff and tell him to tidy up the work he has done, provide you with an invoice, and pay him.

I am sure he will change his tune then, and will not chance his arm again during the build.

Or maybe, don't call his bluff, and just pay him what he is owed and and get somebody else in, if he starts that craic at the start of build, you will need eyes on the back of your head for the rest of the build

Good luck and never accept second best.

K

+1 on that.

If he does not get what he considers sufficient at this stage he will be looking at means to shave every day of the build.

You need someone on that site every hour it is being worked ..... someone who knows what *should* be done.

I also hope you read the contract VERY carefully and made appropriate changes if it was a 'standard builders agreement'.

All I can say is ... never again will I sign an agreement with a builder that I did not write myself.
Neither will I ever again trust a builder to build to Building Regulations, or an Engineer I hire to insist on it.

If I ever attempt to build again, I will hire a person to stand watch over everything that is being done, on a daily basis.

homewardbound11

Having been through the same process I would have only a few comments. That would be based on my raft being 3100 and garage 800 sq ft.

Firstly. It is a major deviation for the contractor and he may well employ a different crowd for the raft and taking his cut. I doubt it though.

For me: I did all the groundworks up to radon barrier and the raft was 15K for the house and garage. I also supplied 2K worth of 804 for the shuttering, So all in all it was 17K.
The steel spec was for block build. 18mm Steel rods. quite impressive.
If i were to guess your build cost for strip i would say 8K-10Kmax . But maybe you could confirm this.
I found that its all swings and roundabouts in this game. If your contractor is reputable and local/well known to you then it will more than likely balance out.

I would say a tad 5K over.

john2020

I'm looking to get a price for a new build that requires a raft foundation in the Monaghan area, can anyone recommend someone that can provide a reasonable price for this work?

siralan

Im in the same boat John2020, thinking of going with a raft foundation and the precast concrete walls for the structure. Can I ask how did you get on with raft in terms of cost ?