Recording conversations

maxwell smart

I'm having my sister in law "mind" my flat while we go away for a week.
Last time she had a major party and really p**sed off the neighbours.
Without telling my wife, I am thinking of leaving a voice activated recorder in the sitting room.
If she has anyone over (which we have now banned and told her not to stay the night) and their conversation was recorded is it illegal.
I own the flat but would not be telling her about the recorder. Now I'm pretty sure she will be narked if she is caught, but is this illegal on my own property?

blueythebear

maxwell smart wrote: »

I'm having my sister in law "mind" my flat while we go away for a week.
Last time she had a major party and really p**sed off the neighbours.
Without telling my wife, I am thinking of leaving a voice activated recorder in the sitting room.
If she has anyone over (which we have now banned and told her not to stay the night) and their conversation was recorded is it illegal.
I own the flat but would not be telling her about the recorder. Now I'm pretty sure she will be narked if she is caught, but is this illegal on my own property?

Nothing illegal about it. However, if you have such trust issues with her, why not just have someone else mind the place? Or have nobody mind the place?

ResearchWill

maxwell smart wrote: »

I'm having my sister in law "mind" my flat while we go away for a week.
Last time she had a major party and really p**sed off the neighbours.
Without telling my wife, I am thinking of leaving a voice activated recorder in the sitting room.
If she has anyone over (which we have now banned and told her not to stay the night) and their conversation was recorded is it illegal.
I own the flat but would not be telling her about the recorder. Now I'm pretty sure she will be narked if she is caught, but is this illegal on my own property?

Why not leave your neighbour with a key and ask them to keep an eye on things. Or some other adult who you can trust. What you have planned will not end well, if she does something your not happy with, your wife will be annoyed you never told her you had a bug in the place.

maxwell smart

My wife thinks this is the opportunity for her sister to show she is mature and capable.
I have my doubts. I would only approach the sister and say nothing to my wife.

My wife also wants to leave her the keys of my car incase she needs to use it!! Would it be illegal to record her and someone in my car? (I just hope I dint hear anyone saying "do another donut"!!)

Leaving the sister there is not up for discussion but I am worried about the car.

ResearchWill

maxwell smart wrote: »

My wife thinks this is the opportunity for her sister to show she is mature and capable.
I have my doubts. I would only approach the sister and say nothing to my wife.

My wife also wants to leave her the keys of my car incase she needs to use it!! Would it be illegal to record her and someone in my car? (I just hope I dint hear anyone saying "do another donut"!!)

Leaving the sister there is not up for discussion but I am worried about the car.

Just say no. It's really easy just say no she is not getting key of apartment and not getting key of my car. Why is it not up for discussion, you live there aswell, just say I'm not going to enjoy break thinking she is throwing parties. Or even better say ok, but any problems when we get back the sister can not so much as set foot in the apartment ever again, even to visit. It's a win win for you no issues great, issues you get rid of the sister for ever more and have a great one to hold over the wife for years.

I assume she is a named driver on your car insurance then.

maxwell smart

No but I have open drive for anyone over 25....bugger.

If I say no, my wife will make sure our little holiday is filled with sharp barbs about her sister!

I'm assuming if I can record in my house I can record in my car? It will only be used to embaress!

ResearchWill

maxwell smart wrote: »

No but I have open drive for anyone over 25....bugger.

If I say no, my wife will make sure our little holiday is filled with sharp barbs about her sister!

I'm assuming if I can record in my house I can record in my car? It will only be used to embaress!

My own view and not in any way legal advice, yes record away. In relation to the insurance, if you are leaving the car with her, name her on the policy. Or at least confirm that she is covered under the policy, but way easier to name her. If I had a euro for every time I have seen some poor person who thought they had insurance under the open driving and they did not for some reason or other.

By the way barbed remarks can go both ways, you can mention sister trashing apartment if you want.

Milk & Honey

Make sure the car won't start. Disconnect the battery before you go. A concealed camera is better than a voice recording.

breanach

yeah remove the fusE for the starte rin the car that will solve the car issue.
Oh and buy the way what happens if she crashes would your wife or her sister pay your inflated insurance costs?

id record away its ur gaf but be prepaired to hear some stuff you dont want to hear.

B

castie

Seems no one has sabotaged their own car before here with this advice!!

Get a dodgy spark plug from a mechanic.
Have had two in my focus before and it makes the car drive weird and lose power.

As such fit this the day before you go.
Report problem to wife, mechanic advice will be not to drive the car til fixed.

Hey Presto car is considered unusable while your on holidays.
You drive the car out and get old plug fitted back in again and your done!

My uncles a mechanic so this would be very easy for me.
Hope you have a mate who is!

MyKeyG

I know your wife has you in an awkward position but I think this is a terrible idea. This will not just record her rule breaches but all her dialogue. What if you record personal information that she confides to a friend over the phone or in person? What if you find out certain things about her lifestyle that she's not ready to divulge?

Either let her mind the house or don't but she will have an expectation of privacy. Your plan may not be an invasion of privacy legally but imo it certainly is morally. You're letting yourself in for a lot of trouble being so sneaky.

ShatterProof

Why not go the whole hog and set up a webcam so that you can view the flat while you are away.

coylemj

ShatterProof wrote: »

Why not go the whole hog and set up a webcam so that you can view the flat while you are away.

And have it activated by infrared so you'll only record the steamy stuff if she brings a fellow to your house and they both get their kit off on the couch!

player101

coylemj wrote: »

And have it activated by infrared so you'll only record the steamy stuff if she brings a fellow to your house and they both get their kit off on the couch!

then stick the images up online and make some money off her ha OJ

MyKeyG

coylemj wrote: »

And have it activated by infrared so you'll only record the steamy stuff if she brings a fellow to your house and they both get their kit off on the couch!

Or a lady!!!

Kash

MyKeyG wrote: »

I know your wife has you in an awkward position but I think this is a terrible idea. This will not just record her rule breaches but all her dialogue. What if you record personal information that she confides to a friend over the phone or in person? What if you find out certain things about her lifestyle that she's not ready to divulge?

Either let her mind the house or don't but she will have an expectation of privacy. Your plan may not be an invasion of privacy legally but imo it certainly is morally. You're letting yourself in for a lot of trouble being so sneaky.

I would agree wholeheartedly with MyKeyG - it's certainly not illegal, but it's morally reprehensible - and just, well, underhanded and sneaky. I have house sat for numerous people in the past and would hate to think of them listening in on my private phone conversations, singing in the shower etc.

It would not only damage your relationship with your sister in law, but it could well damage your relationship with your wife. I personally would not respect a man that did that, especially if it were my husband and he neglected to tell me. It would speak of serious trust issues. If you feel so strongly about it, put your foot down and say you don't want her in the place - at least that is upfront and honest.

Bugging your flat is not worth it in my opinion.

dahamsta

Sounds like a great marriage. Sit down with your wife and talk to her. If ye can't settle on a reasonable middle ground, it's time to think about divorce.

nuac

Maxwell unless you like living dangerously and like family rows, forget about t he recording. Talk to your wife, before you find yourself sitting on the doorstep with your stuff in a bin liner

krd

Are there any instances in Irish legal history of someone suing for being recorded without their knowledge or permission?


By recorded I mean phone conversations...etc.

miller50841

Just quote at start of call it may be recorded for training purposes.

They will either hang up or be ok about it

Procrastastudy

krd wrote: »

Are there any instances in Irish legal history of someone suing for being recorded without their knowledge or permission?


By recorded I mean phone conversations...etc.

In what context - fair few issues with CCTV. I assume you mean a telephone or face to face conversation?

An audio recording taken without a managing directors knowledge was allowed in a EAT hearing. See Laurentiu Eugen Iocob v The Central Hotel (DEC-E2010-147)

Kennedy v Ireland although that was a wiretap by the state.

blindsider

Is this a case of the secret recording of a conversation to prove who said what? If it is, I can't help.

(I would ask though, is it illegal to make the recording, or is it illegal to use any information provided during the recording - I suspect it might be the latter, but I'd be interested to hear what the experts say.)

If it's a case of an organisation e.g. insurance company, bank etc recrding conversations with customers then I can offer a little advice:

i) The Data Protection Act stipulates that such recordings must be advised to callers BEFORE the call actually takes place viz. while the call is on hold, and waiting to be answered by a person.

Also, the purpose of the recording must be advised i.e. Company XYZ cannot run an announcement saying: 'Your call may be recorded for training purposes' and then use it to verify what was said by whom. They would need to use the word 'verification' in the recorded announcement.

krd

Procrastastudy wrote: »

In what context - fair few issues with CCTV. I assume you mean a telephone or face to face conversation?

Yep. Telephone, and face to face.

An audio recording taken without a managing directors knowledge was allowed in a EAT hearing. See Laurentiu Eugen Iocob v The Central Hotel (DEC-E2010-147)

That is actually...incredibly interesting.

Kennedy v Ireland although that was a wiretap by the state.

A Charlie "the most worthless verminous scumbag B***** to ever walk land. May the worms who eat his rotten carcass get cancer and die. And may anyone who ever voted for the verminous filth bag get cancer and die too - " Haughey, moment in history.

That kind of wiretap is something different. Kennedy was being bugged by CJ filth bag Haughey.


I'm not up to anything.........

Procrastastudy

krd wrote: »

Yep. Telephone, and face to face.

Telephone conversations would be covered by the Interception of Postal and Packets and Telecommunication Messages (Regulation) Act 1993 so would be different from face to face conversations. How - I'm afraid is beyond what I've read.

krd wrote: »

That is actually...incredibly interesting.

It was bond to happen one day I know you are specifically looking at Ireland but in the UK there have been comments made that context is key. For example recording a disciplinary meeting would be regarded in the same manner as taking notes. Recording a private meeting would almost certainly be disallowed.

krd wrote: »

A Charlie "the most worthless verminous scumbag B***** to ever walk land. May the worms who eat his rotten carcass get cancer and die. And may anyone who ever voted for the verminous filth bag get cancer and die too - " Haughey, moment in history.

That kind of wiretap is something different. Kennedy was being bugged by CJ filth bag Haughey.

I'm not up to anything.........

I have to admit I lacked the, rather colourful, historical context!

Tom Young

I'm merging this thread. There's a long discussion on it on other threads in this forum.

krd

Procrastastudy wrote: »

It was bond to happen one day I know you are specifically looking at Ireland but in the UK there have been comments made that context is key. For example recording a disciplinary meeting would be regarded in the same manner as taking notes. Recording a private meeting would almost certainly be disallowed.

That is very interesting. I was under the impression, and so are many other people, that regardless of context, the recordings were not only inadmissible, but that the person making the recordings could be in really big trouble.

I have to admit I lacked the, rather colourful, historical context!

Charlie "may Satan penetrate his hole with no lubricant for all eternity" Haughey. Became a wire-tap junkie back in the day because MI5 lent him a listening device - they had typical Her Majesty's Secret Service paranoia, and thought there was a plot to kill Charlie. Then Charlie completely by serendipity discovered that elites of his party; Fianna Arse Vermin. Were actually out to get him. The party elites for close to a decade believed Charlie had magical all knowing powers - when it was actually the MI5 listening device.

MI5 asked for the listening device back, and Charlie said he found it quite useful and would like to hang on to it.

They asked again, and Charlie gave them two words - one on each finger.

plasteritup

maxwell smart wrote: »

My wife thinks this is the opportunity for her sister to show she is mature and capable.
I have my doubts. I would only approach the sister and say nothing to my wife.

My wife also wants to leave her the keys of my car incase she needs to use it!! Would it be illegal to record her and someone in my car? (I just hope I dint hear anyone saying "do another donut"!!)

Leaving the sister there is not up for discussion but I am worried about the car.

seriously man,man up!!