Literature and the Leaving Cert

wilkie2006

It's been quite a few years since I did the LC but for a reason I'm not sure of I recently had a look at the English curriculum. Compared to what texts I studied (about 10 years ago), it's amazing. I was so surprised by how fresh and dynamic the selection of novels/plays were (mine weren't bad but they weren't great).

Here's the full list (I've emboldened the ones I was particularly surprised and impressed to see here):

AUSTEN, Jane Emma
BALLARD, J. G. Empire of the Sun
BINCHY, Maeve Circle of Friends
BRONTË, Emily Wuthering Heights
CHATWIN, Bruce In Patagonia
FITZGERALD, F. Scott The Great Gatsby
FRIEL, Brian Translations
FULLER, Alexandra Don’t Let’s Go to the Dogs Tonight: An African
Childhood
HAMID, Moshin The Reluctant Fundamentalist
HARDY, Thomas Tess of the d’Urbervilles
HARRIS, Robert Pompeii
HEMINGWAY, Ernest The Old Man and the Sea
ISHIGURO, Kazuo Never Let Me Go
JOHNSTON, Jennifer How Many Miles to Babylon?
JONES, Lloyd Mister Pip
KEANE, John B. Sive
LEVY, Andrea Small Island
LEONARD, Hugh Home Before Night
LESSING, Doris The Grass Is Singing
McCARTHY, Cormac The Road
McDONAGH, Martin The Lonesome West
MILLER, Arthur All My Sons
NGOZI ADICHIE, Chimamanda Purple Hibiscus
ORWELL, George 1984
PICOULT, Jodi My Sister’s Keeper
ROSOFF, Meg How I Live Now
SHAKESPEARE, William Macbeth and A Winter’s Tale
SOPHOCLES Antigone
TÓIBĺN, Colm Brooklyn
TREVOR, William The Story of Lucy Gault
WOLFF, Tobias This Boy’s Life: A Memoir
ZUSAK, Markus The Book Thief

hatful

Doris Lessing, George Orwell and Sophocles are great additions. I'm disappointed that 'Of Mice and Men', 'Catcher in the Rye' and 'Lord of the flies' are gone. Why are films included?

wilkie2006

hatful wrote: »

Why are films included?

Sorry - snipped them from the list

hatful

wilkie2006 wrote: »

Sorry - snipped them from the list

That's fine, I was just wondering why there were films on the curriculum. Are the students allowed to discuss film adaptations in their essays?

Kinski

hatful wrote: »

That's fine, I was just wondering why there were films on the curriculum. Are the students allowed to discuss film adaptations in their essays?

There's a film studies component to the curriculum now, AFAIK.

Niles

hatful wrote: »

That's fine, I was just wondering why there were films on the curriculum. Are the students allowed to discuss film adaptations in their essays?

When I did the Leaving (2006) there was a film as part of the comparative study, not sure if it was mandatory but my school did one at any rate. We did On the Waterfront, comparing the theme of redemption through love with that in the novel Silas Marner. For the play we did Juno & The Paycock, I think we compared that on the basis of cultural context rather than theme though.

IIRC some questions restricted you to two "texts", others gave you the option of doing three. I think the current course only dates from 2002 or so.Have to say I quite enjoyed the texts in question.

Kinski

Niles wrote: »

We did On the Waterfront, comparing the theme of redemption through love with that in the novel Silas Marner.

That's a weird pairing...do they just yoke any two texts together?

Toby Take a Bow

That's really interesting. Any of the ones I've left included below I'd find pretty interesting inclusions. We only were offered the one choice in the Leaving Cert, so it'd have been great to have the list below to choose from (although Wuthering Heights was great).

I'd be pretty annoyed at having to read Binchy, Harris or Picoult for my Leaving Cert (this is based purely on prejudice, and not on having - god forbid - actually having read any of those authors).

I'm surprised at some of the (relatively) recently published books there: Mister Pip, The Road, Never Let Me Go.

wilkie2006 wrote: »

BALLARD, J. G. Empire of the Sun
BINCHY, Maeve Circle of Friends
FITZGERALD, F. Scott The Great Gatsby
FULLER, Alexandra Don’t Let’s Go to the Dogs Tonight: An African
Childhood
HAMID, Moshin The Reluctant Fundamentalist
HARRIS, Robert Pompeii
ISHIGURO, Kazuo Never Let Me Go
JONES, Lloyd Mister Pip
LEVY, Andrea Small Island
LESSING, Doris The Grass Is Singing
McCARTHY, Cormac The Road
MILLER, Arthur All My Sons
NGOZI ADICHIE, Chimamanda Purple Hibiscus
ORWELL, George 1984
PICOULT, Jodi My Sister’s Keeper
ROSOFF, Meg How I Live Now
TÓIBĺN, Colm Brooklyn
TREVOR, William The Story of Lucy Gault
WOLFF, Tobias This Boy’s Life: A Memoir
ZUSAK, Markus The Book Thief

Niles

Kinski wrote: »

That's a weird pairing...do they just yoke any two texts together?

Not really sure how the selection process was made. From memory we did the comparison on the basis that both had characters changed for the better by their love for the main female character; Terry's romantic love for Edie and Silas' fatherly love for Eppie. The cultural context comparison would have probably been more straightforward, I think this how Juno & The Paycock was brought into the fold... can't really see any common themes between it and On the Waterfront, but I'm open to ideas!

wilkie2006

Toby Take a Bow wrote: »

I'm surprised at some of the (relatively) recently published books there: Mister Pip, The Road, Never Let Me Go.

That's exactly what I thought. I'm surprised (and delighted) that the Dept of Education has embraced novels that are actually new. :eek:

Monkeybonkers

wilkie2006 wrote: »

JOHNSTON, Jennifer How Many Miles to Babylon?

Delighted to see this on the course. I read this book recently and thought it was excellent.

Denerick

Have to say that book selection is excellent. Bear in mind its up to the teacher to decide which three books to read. For many students its probably going to be the last novel they read in their adult life. Its a real shame, so it makes it extra important to choose an intelligent, well structured novel by somebody like Steinbeck or Orwell.

bigsmokewriting

AFAIK Circle of Friends and a few of the others have been on for a while - maybe not ten years, but not far off it! The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night Time was also on for a while, quite soon after its publication. Often an English teacher will stick pick more traditional/familiar texts for their class to study, or save the newer texts for classes that aren't great readers in the hope of getting them interested. Great to have the range available for study, though.

Kinski

Denerick wrote: »

For many students its probably going to be the last novel they read in their adult life.

At the risk of sounding pedantic, they're not adults!;)

bigsmokewriting wrote: »

AFAIK Circle of Friends and a few of the others have been on for a while - maybe not ten years, but not far off it!

I think the selection of Irish fiction seems quite boring. I'd probably have something like The Book of Evidence or some Flann O'Brien rather than the likes of Binchy.

Denerick

The Book of Evidence is too riské. I seem to remember a passage that compares a woman's vagina to a peach cut down the middle. I can image the Catholic mothers beseeching the school board to 'think of the children'...

Kinski

Denerick wrote: »

The Book of Evidence is too riské. I seem to remember a passage that compares a woman's vagina to a peach cut down the middle. I can image the Catholic mothers beseeching the school board to 'think of the children'...

Hopefully not while visualizing the peach/vagina...:pac:

Toby Take a Bow

wilkie2006 wrote: »

That's exactly what I thought. I'm surprised (and delighted) that the Dept of Education has embraced novels that are actually new. :eek:

Oh yeah, definitely a good thing (in case my 'surprise' was misinterpreted as surprised-and-disgusted).

Denerick wrote: »

Have to say that book selection is excellent. Bear in mind its up to the teacher to decide which three books to read. For many students its probably going to be the last novel they read in their adult life. Its a real shame, so it makes it extra important to choose an intelligent, well structured novel by somebody like Steinbeck or Orwell.

Agree! I was never much of a reader in my teens until reading Wuthering Heights for my Leaving Cert. Hated it at the start, but really got into it and I got into reading in my twenties in a huge way. Some might argue that having a light read will encourage people to dip their toes in the water, but I'm not sure that'd necessarily work: give them something light and with no substance and they might think that's all there is to books.

Denerick

Toby Take a Bow wrote: »

Agree! I was never much of a reader in my teens until reading Wuthering Heights for my Leaving Cert. Hated it at the start, but really got into it and I got into reading in my twenties in a huge way. Some might argue that having a light read will encourage people to dip their toes in the water, but I'm not sure that'd necessarily work: give them something light and with no substance and they might think that's all there is to books.

I have to say I agree with that. When I was in first year of secondary school our teacher (Who was one of these 'new methods' types) gave us the lyrics to some rap song by some irrelevant nobody to 'analyse' (It was a peculiarly uninspiring piece about how tough the 'ghetto' is)

What we were supposed to be reading was a selection of poetry by Patrick Kavanagh.

Turns out that I got into Kavanagh in a big big way when I hit my early twenties... Something about his angsty loathing for everything seemed to resonate within me

Niles

Denerick wrote: »

The Book of Evidence is too riské. I seem to remember a passage that compares a woman's vagina to a peach cut down the middle. I can image the Catholic mothers beseeching the school board to 'think of the children'...

We studied John Donne's poetry for the LC... I'd love to know what those mothers would make of that! The Flea, anyone?

Monkeybonkers

Kinski wrote: »

I'd probably have something like The Book of Evidence or some Flann O'Brien rather than the likes of Binchy.

I suppose it's hard to pick something that won't put people off literature too. I know if I had to read Flann O Brien for the LC that I probably would never pick up another book in my life! Hated his stuff and if you're not a fan it could be the type of stuff that turns you off literature rather than making you enjoy it. Everything is subjective though so it's about trying to strike a balance that most people will find agreeable, which is not always easy. Having said that I think the list is quite good in its content. There will surely be something there that interests most types of people. Quite surprised too by the up-to-date nature of some of the books but again it's about giving a choice of a broad spectrum of material. Good on them I say.

Kinski

Monkeybonkers wrote: »

I suppose it's hard to pick something that won't put people off literature too. I know if I had to read Flann O Brien for the LC that I probably would never pick up another book in my life! Hated his stuff and if you're not a fan it could be the type of stuff that turns you off literature rather than making you enjoy it. Everything is subjective though so it's about trying to strike a balance that most people will find agreeable, which is not always easy. Having said that I think the list is quite good in its content. There will surely be something there that interests most types of people. Quite surprised too by the up-to-date nature of some of the books but again it's about giving a choice of a broad spectrum of material. Good on them I say.

Well, you can't please everyone!

Though one of the challenges for a teacher should be to help students appreciate literature. Back when I was doing a Masters, I took seminars with a very talented professor; one of the most satisfying things about the course was the way in which he opened up texts for us students, and drew us towards aspects we missed. Often the class would meet informally beforehand, and we'd discuss the week's reading over coffee for a couple of hours. We'd strut into class, confident we'd discussed the book to death, and sometimes we were united in our dislike of it...only for our lecturer to prise our minds open again, and occasionally transform our opinions on the text totally.

Of course, I don't expect LC English classes to resemble a postgraduate seminar much, but if a teacher encounters a class who are resistant to the reading, I hope she'd do her best to guide them to an appreciation of it, or to challenge them to produce a cogently argued case for their dislike.

decisions

I'm doing Casablanca as part of my comparative.

tabstheatre

I totally agree that a teacher can make or break a students' love for a text or or reading in general. I remember studying Lear for my leaving cert and being quite horrified at the teachers interpretation of it. She didn't have a clue and would just get us to learn off quotes. Usually cutting the actual thought in half. Just learn the first four lines kind of thing when the thought wasn't actually finished until line 8. Therefore it didn't make any sense.
I have always loved Shakespeare so I just did my own thing outside of class but most of my classmates hated shakespeare simply because the teacher hated it and communicated that to the group.

I think alot of the time in school it's about learning what you need to pass an exam rather than learning and understanding a text. When I studied Lear at university it was a lovely experience. A teacher can inspire or destroy!

Monkeybonkers

Kinski wrote: »

Well, you can't please everyone!

QUOTE]


You certainly can not, which is why I think the list is quite good as it contains a nice mix.

While it would be nice to think that a teacher will come along and expand the minds of bored teenagers by revealing the beauty that can be found in literature I'm afraid that this is highly unlikely. Sounds like a good professor you had there though. 'Dead Poets Society' springs to mind

Kinski

Monkeybonkers wrote: »

'Dead Poets Society' springs to mind

Heavens, no! I hate that movie.

And tbh, I've had plenty of very good lecturers.

damselnat

Kinski wrote: »

At the risk of sounding pedantic, they're not adults!;)

Well, I think most people nowadays are 18 when they sit their leaving I know all but about three or four people in my class were anyway. But back on topic, I have to say I rather enjoyed the English curriculum for the leaving cert, we did Babylon, Cinema Paradiso and Philadelphia Here I Come by Brian Friel, which was my favourite, thought it was fantastic. My friend's class did The Truman Show, I loved Cinema Paradiso but was a little jealous about that!
English seems to be one of the few subjects that is progressing at any speed (History I suppose, but that's another thing altogether...). The Junior Cert selection was quite interesting too if I remember, we did the standard Merchant of Venice and To Kill A Mockingbird (great book, but talk about doing it to death), I remember another class in my year did You Don't Know Me by David Klass, which I was definitely jealous about!

Niles

damselnat wrote: »

The Junior Cert selection was quite interesting too if I remember, we did the standard Merchant of Venice and To Kill A Mockingbird (great book, but talk about doing it to death),

Same here, along with O'Casey's The Shadow of a Gunman. Was never that wild about Shakespeare but enjoyed the rest of the texts.

It's strange but the actual length of novel can vary greatly, I know some who did Of Mice and Men for the JC which is quite short compared to To Kill a Mockingbird. I preferred the latter in any case. Likewise I believe Jane Eyre is studied by some schools, which from memory is at least twice the length of Silas Marner, which my school did.

Even outside of exam years, some teachers make more of an effort than others. In first year we did Danny, the Champion of the World and another book (forget the title) involving a boy who finds a poltergeist living in his new house. I don't believe all teachers do two novels in first year, but I certainly found it enjoyable.

implausible

Just to add some information - the LC list of texts changes every year, which is great as it keeps it fresh and keeps me, as a teacher, on my toes. The films are a welcome addition. Studying a film is optional, but most teachers do it as it gives a bit of variety to the course and allows me to rant on about Casablanca! You can only cover one film and it's the film you study, not any play/novel it may be based on.

If anyone is interested, you can find the list here There will be a new one up in April or so for 2014

Monkeybonkers

Kinski wrote: »

And tbh, I've had plenty of very good lecturers.

Lucky you. This topic is about the Leaving Cert though

wilkie2006

bigsmokewriting wrote: »

Often an English teacher will stick pick more traditional/familiar texts for their class to study, or save the newer texts for classes that aren't great readers in the hope of getting them interested. Great to have the range available for study, though.

Maybe I'm just a cynic but I wonder whether some teachers are less inclined to use newer novels because, well, they're not actually very good teachers and don't understand them. :eek: I've had a few over the years who explained a poem's meaning exclusively through the interpretation in the back of the book.

I think that this new list is great because it offers something that kids might actually want to study. To someone who enjoys reading, Shakespeare or Jane Austen are fine but how dull would they be to a 17 year-old who typically sits around playing his Playstation?

I applaud the Dept of Education for making reading - and learning - more accessible.

JohnMearsheimer

That's quite an interesting list. We did Antigone back in 2002. We did Oedipus the King in Classical Studies as well so there was a nice tie in.

I would agree that a teacher's choice of book could potentially make or break a student's interest in books. When I was in 4th year my English teacher chose This Boy's Life by Tobias Wolff. For me it was a fantastic choice and I've been reading away ever since.

implausible

wilkie2006 wrote: »

Maybe I'm just a cynic but I wonder whether some teachers are less inclined to use newer novels because, well, they're not actually very good teachers and don't understand them. :eek: I've had a few over the years who explained a poem's meaning exclusively through the interpretation in the back of the book.

I think that this new list is great because it offers something that kids might actually want to study. To someone who enjoys reading, Shakespeare or Jane Austen are fine but how dull would they be to a 17 year-old who typically sits around playing his Playstation?

I applaud the Dept of Education for making reading - and learning - more accessible.

You'd be right in saying that teachers are less inclined to use newer novels, but in fairness, it has a lot to do with the notes issue, rather than stupidity. Parents and students in some schools demand reams and reams of notes For a teacher to put his/her own set together on an unfamiliar text and then try to fit that text in with two others for a comparative can seem like a lot of extra thankless work, especially when faced with readily-available sets of notes from tried and tested texts like Juno and the Paycock or Tess of the D’Urbervilles. Of course, laziness can come into it too though.

I've often had to dismiss a particular text that I would love to teach, because it didn't fit in with the comparative or wouldn't suit the class group. However, I love the fact that the course is so dynamic and forces you to teach outside of the comfort zone of the old favourites. Other teachers, especially those who don't read, hate the change every year. I must admit I get a a perverse enjoyment out of their discomfort (*evil laugh)

echo beach

implausible wrote: »

Other teachers, especially those who don't read, hate the change every year. I must admit I get a a perverse enjoyment out of their discomfort (*evil laugh)

While I don't doubt that there are English teachers who don't read, I pity their students.

Seeing adults, especially their parents or teachers, reading for pleasure is surely the best encouragement there is. I remember a teacher often telling our class what he was reading, usually with the proviso "you should read it when you are older." Of course that made us mad to read it right away!

Kinski

implausible wrote: »

Other teachers, especially those who don't read, hate the change every year.

There are English teachers who don't read?

pljudge321

I did 12 Angry Men, Death of a Salesman and Silas Marner. Was probably my favourite part of the course.

wilkie2006

Kinski wrote: »

There are English teachers who don't read?

When I was in 4th year, I had an English teacher who proclaimed proudly that he didn't read novels, only newspapers :eek:

implausible

Kinski wrote: »

There are English teachers who don't read?

Unfortunately, yes! When studying English at college, I think I expected everyone to be as full of enthusiasm as I was, but was disappointed. Then becoming a teacher, I envisaged long discussions with colleagues about books, but often, these never materialised. Many teachers only read the texts on the course.

The sad truth is that it is perfectly feasible to be an excellent English teacher by just teaching to the exam. All that is necessary is to have read/seen 4 of the texts on that list every year. That's why the changing list is good. You can 'get away' with teaching from the tried and trusted back catalogue from the old course for a good while, but eventually, you will have to choose and make notes on a text you are not familiar with. (However, in this instance, the publishing companies kindly oblige with detailed books of notes.) Needless to say, this is not an opinion I broadcast in the staffroom!

For many people, English might have been their second subject or just a good teaching subject. The majority of English teachers are Arts graduates with a teaching qualification. There is no specific course for teaching English (the core subject).

I love my subject and I love my job, but these two things don't always go hand in hand and they don't need to, in the education system's current form.

Kinski

implausible wrote: »

The sad truth is that it is perfectly feasible to be an excellent English teacher by just teaching to the exam.

Are you sure about that?;)

For many people, English might have been their second subject or just a good teaching subject. The majority of English teachers are Arts graduates with a teaching qualification. There is no specific course for teaching English (the core subject).

Of course, not everyone who studies any subject at third level will necessarily be all that interested in it, but given that the points for entry into the PDip in Ed seem pretty high, hopefully we're now producing teaching graduates who are enthusiastic about what they plan to teach!

implausible

Kinski wrote: »

Are you sure about that?;)

If your measure of excellence is exam results, yes