Slugs- can they be bought for foxes or boar here?

Hunter21

As above. Can slugs be purchased and used in Ireland or are they restricted and only allowed to be used with a restricted shotgun?
Or are they totally forbidden altogether.

Forgive me if it's a stupid question. I've searched for an answer on old threads but to no avail.

daithi55

dont think they can be got the was a thread a few months back about it
id say its fair hard shoot a fox with them anyway

Grizzly 45

They are available but are restricted.Wont be much left of your fox if you hit one with a 12 GA slug,unless it is a 410,which gives you about the equivilency of a 44mag in bullet weight and speed.Which is still some overkill.Unless boar become more prolific I doubt very much that they will become unrestricted.

beretta686s

redmills in gorsebridge co kilkenny has them in boxs of 10 they do sum damage to a fox if u hit them with it ofcourse

kildare.17hmr

Any dealer iv asked about slugs has told me they are not restricted at all. The only place iv heard different is here. Anyone got a link to prove ether way?

Witcher

S.I. No. 21/2008 — Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 Section 5:

The following ammunition is declared to be restricted ammunition for the purposes of the Act:


(a) ammunition with penetrating, explosive or incendiary projectiles and projectiles for such ammunition;


(b) slug ammunition for shotguns;


(c) accelerator or sabot ammunition;

Link

kildare.17hmr

Cheers lad

extremetaz

Reasonably certain you can get them for 410 - a neighbour seemed to be laying his hands to them pretty regularly so I'm assuming they're readily accessible.

Having fire them though - they're not exactly a precise projectile so I wouldn't rate them as all that practical.

djflawless

correct me if im wrong but the `10 in a box` are rc magnums.the lead shots in them are big and heavy towards birdshot. .im guessing they`re the nearest available loads to slugs.unless your using home made.but then again if you valued your health you wouldn`t be going anywhere near home made. .plus im near 100% sure its illegal

extremetaz

These things he has are definitely a single projectile.

Big flat head on them, rounding to a neck before flaring out into a heavy skirt - kinda like a huge air-rifle pellet.

Longranger

Sounds like a saboted slug to me. Regardless of whether its a 12g or a .410 they are restricted

johngalway

What type of foxes do you have that need slugs

Grizzly 45

Wolf size foxes perhaps??:D
Even a 410 would be overkill for a fox,if you could hit one.The slug in any shotgun is very much a compromise for when a rifle is too much and a shot load too little.Think a smoothbore musket and it's accruacy,is what a shotgun is with slugs.

extremetaz

Longranger wrote: »

Sounds like a saboted slug to me. Regardless of whether its a 12g or a .410 they are restricted

I'll say that to him so - he wouldn't be the type of fella who'd have gone looking for them, they're just what he picked up wherever he was at the time.

Grizzly 45 wrote:

Think a smoothbore musket and it's accruacy,is what a shotgun is with slugs.

Yeah - that makes me feel a little better - I wouldn't hit water if I fell out of a boat with the damn things.

Feisar

Can they be used effectively out of a regular smoothbore?

I thought they had to be used in a rifled shotgun?

No, just read most are designed for smoothbore and may have pre-cut rifling (wiki)

Although how much spin could this pre-cut rifling impart, not a lot I'd say.

juice1304

you can shoot slugs out of a smooth bore out to 200y

Grizzly 45

Feisar wrote: »

Can they be used effectively out of a regular smoothbore?

Yup even out of full choked barrells.

I thought they had to be used in a rifled shotgun?

Nope,and thats kind of a paradox?A rifled shotgun?Although there are such guns called paradox guns for this purpose of slugs and shot.:p

No, just read most are designed for smoothbore and may have pre-cut rifling (wiki)

Although how much spin could this pre-cut rifling impart, not a lot I'd say.

Thinking of the Brennecke style slug??A yery old design that was supposed to mate up with some gentle rifling in a dbbl gun designed 150 years ago by Paul Brennecke.Never worked well.
Ironically they dont give it spin,but crush and form a gas check as the slug is going down the barrel.

1500 meters is their range at a 30degree elevation.:eek:[Careful now!]
60 meters would be about right for any accruacy,even less.

Feisar

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Yup even out of full choked barrells.




Nope,and thats kind of a paradox?A rifled shotgun?Although there are such guns called paradox guns for this purpose of slugs and shot.:p


Thinking of the Brennecke style slug??A yery old design that was supposed to mate up with some gentle rifling in a dbbl gun designed 150 years ago by Paul Brennecke.Never worked well.
Ironically they dont give it spin,but crush and form a gas check as the slug is going down the barrel.

1500 meters is their range at a 30degree elevation.:eek:[Careful now!]
60 meters would be about right for any accruacy,even less.

I knew I'd get pulled on that! OK a gun that fires slugs from a cartridge type thingy with a rifled barrel that looks like a shotgun. But defiantly isn't one.:D

Since the barrel is "rifled" can we define it as a rifle or is it a slug gun?

kildare.17hmr

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Yup even out of full choked barrells

so my o/u could fire slugs then? it does not take chokes so i assume it has fixed chokes?

Hunter21

johngalway wrote: »

What type of foxes do you have that need slugs

Reason I asked cos a mate said he seen them in a firearm dealers.
I've seen .308 on another Irish forum shooting rabbits, bit of overkill but if legal why not do it? So said I'd ask about slugs on foxes to experience them but obviously I can't get them as I have an unrestricted firearm. I don't want to get into an argument about under kill and over kill of animals.

Was talking to a cousin of mine that was out in the continent he said you have to be carefull what chokes you use when firing slugs out of an un rifled shotgun as you could catch the slug slightly upon exit and may cause damage or harm to gun and user. Don't know if there's any truth in that or what.

Grizzly 45

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

so my o/u could fire slugs then? it does not take chokes so i assume it has fixed chokes?

No problem.:) Yeah would be fixed chokes.Have fired them out of full choke no bother .Cant advise you on Xtra full choke.But they are more removeable type chokes.Have a look onthe gun it should give you its choking.If not pop into a gundealer and ask him for a choke gauge.Takes seconds to do and will tell you what the chokes are.

landkeeper

any box of slugs i have seen had a warning NOT TO SHOOT OUT OF A CHOKE barrel on it :eek:

Grizzly 45

Feisar wrote: »

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I knew I'd get pulled on that! OK a gun that fires slugs from a cartridge type thingy with a rifled barrel that looks like a shotgun. But defiantly isn't one.:D

Since the barrel is "rifled" can we define it as a rifle or is it a slug gun?

One of these riddle and puzzle type questions and definitions.:D
My take on this.
A barrel with half smooth and half rifled in shotgun calibres is literally called a Paradox gun,as it is neither shotgun or rifle.They havent been made for years,and I dont think there are many around,maybe some specialist gun makers make replacement barrels for modern pumps/semis?

Some barrells actually arent rifled despite them having " lands and groves" in them.:eek: They are actually supposed to work as gas checks on the shot cup.Apprently some of the French and Austrian brands can have these barrells and it can lead to no end of confusion:D.Only ever seen one here on a baby Breton O/U 20 ga.So you have a shotgun still

"slug guns"the term is really a slang for a rifle sighted smoothbore shotgun.They have been called deer barrells or deer shotguns as well.
Of course there is the exception to the rule in that there are actually guns called "slugsters".Mossberg made a "slugster" in both rifled and smoothbore configs and in some cases the rifled version had bead sight and the non rifled had a rifle sight to confuse the issue even more.:p

So would a rifled shotgun be a rifle here??Unfortunatly yes.A big calibre restricted one.That wouldnt be very accruate either.Yet within 30 secs could be a normal unrestricted shotgun by swopping out the barrel.
Would a shotgun with rifle sights and smoothbore be a shotgun ?.Certainly ,and would do the job just as well accruacy wiseas the rifled version.
Clear now?:p:p:D

cruisedub1

mossberg.JPG

Mossberg 500 with rifled barrel , kick's like an angry mule .

Grizzly 45

landkeeper wrote: »

any box of slugs i have seen had a warning NOT TO SHOOT OUT OF A CHOKE barrel on it :eek:

New one on me. What kind of slugs were they??Possibly if they are the sabot type??
Its not every gun that is cylinder bored either.

landkeeper

winchesters from memory i no longer i have the box so can't verify it
BUT i would be very very very careful about shooting a slug out of anything except a cylinder barrel . the unexpected results could be catastrophic for the user ,you only get two hands and eyes in this life i certainly wouldn't be telling lads they could use them in a full choke gun on the internet :D

Grizzly 45

Put it like this LK.
I wouldnt be advising somone to do somthing that I PERSONALLY have done and am alive and well and in one piece.TBH some of the things I've shot out of a shotgun over the years as experimental loads would put your heart aghast:eek::eek:.

From Brennecke USA.com
Question: Why do your slugs work with choked barrels? What do the ribs do?
Answer: In 1898 Wilhelm Brenneke invented the modern shotgun slug. The most revolutionary aspect of his invention were the ribs. They make it possible to shoot any of our lead slugs from any choked barrel, regardless of choke size. The ribs are compressed when they pass through the choke, and excess lead is squeezed into the gaps between the ribs. There is no danger to the shooter, to the gun or to bystanders, and no wear and tear on the gun. Excellent accuracy is retained. In 1992, we added minor improvements which resulted in even higher accuracy: five-shot groups of under 2" at 50 yards are possible. Depending upon the case length (2¾" or 3") you can effectively use our slugs up to 100 yard ranges. Note that our SuperSabot and our Super Magnum are designed only for use cylindrical full-rifled barrels, and must not be fired from any type of choked barrel.

http://www.brennekeusa.com/web/text/faq.html

So there does seem to be a problem if they are SABOTED slugs and you are using adjustable chokes.Everyone says use the rifled barrels for the sabot style slugs.Which leaves with two problems here.[1] a rifled slug barrel will be considerd restricted calibre[2] as will the ammo.

So if you can persuade your CS you want a 12gauge "rifle" that has all the accruacy of a 1776 Kentucky flintlock rifle
Why not just ask him for a proper more accruate modern semi 30.06 for boar?
So if it is a Brennecke or Foster type slug made of lead go ahead with a normal choked barrel.Only one check iwith the makers for removeable chokes.
If it is SABOTED ammo use a rifled barrel.Unless you are using the unbeliveably expensive French Sauvestre sabot slugs.The manufactures say it is usable on choked or unchoked barrels.
http://www.sauvestre.com/-Balles-Fusil,30-?lang=fr
This Sauvester chap BTW invented the depleted Uranium sabot round for the American Abramhs and German Leopard 2 tanks smoothbore guns.



URL]http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10393&start=0[/URL]

Good thread there on this very same point.

virgindrummer

You can shoot rifled and sabot slugs out of rifled and unrifled barrels, unless you have a REALLY tight choke, like a turkey choke.

Here is some actual evidence of the kind of accuracy you can get:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot46.htm

I used to shoot loads of slugs through a Remington 870 improved cylinder. Back before slugs became so DANGEROUS they had to RESTRICTED. Not sure what exactly is so dangerous about them. An unrestricted .300 RUM rifle will put out a projectile carrying between five and six times the energy of a restricted .410 slug.

Grizzly 45

Buts thats the logic of Irish gun legislation for you...
So much in fact that the DOJ and AGS didnt even know ,by their own admittance that shotgun slugs even existed!!They only found out about them here from Boards...So of course such works of the devil must be restricted at once.Lest somone actually does somthing silly with them,like start a revoulition or supply the two favs "terrorists and criminals" with them.:rolleyes:

virgindrummer

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Buts thats the logic of Irish gun legislation for you...
So much in fact that the DOJ and AGS didnt even know ,by their own admittance that shotgun slugs even existed!!They only found out about them here from Boards...So of course such works of the devil must be restricted at once.Lest somone actually does somthing silly with them,like start a revoulition or supply the two favs "terrorists and criminals" with them.:rolleyes:

Yeah, and you know what? They wouldn't look completely stupid over this if slugs were even remotely useful for criminals, who are, strangely enough, criminals. So they don't care if something is restricted. Because they're criminals.

The circular logic has me incoherent with confusion and :mad:, so I'll admit I'm having trouble getting my point across. But why would a criminal, who doesn't care about breaking the law, care if slugs are restricted. He won't be getting a licence for them anyway. And if he does get a firearm illegally, why would he use a round that is almost completely ineffective when fired from a sawed off, his shotgun of choice? But even restricting rifles over .308; WTF? What is a scumbag going to do with a bloody .458 Winchester? Restrict the rifles that are probably of least use to criminals, good one.

I hope the same officials who descovered slugs on boards.ie are reading this... so I can blow a rasberry at them :P. Aha, take that DOJ mandarin!

Feels good man, I really need to get out more!

Tackleberrywho

Thanks grissly.

Always wanted to know that. The box of winchester slugs I used to own in 2007 never mentioned choke restrictions.

Pitty I gave them all away.......

johngalway

Hunter21 wrote: »

Reason I asked cos a mate said he seen them in a firearm dealers.
I've seen .308 on another Irish forum shooting rabbits, bit of overkill but if legal why not do it? So said I'd ask about slugs on foxes to experience them but obviously I can't get them as I have an unrestricted firearm. I don't want to get into an argument about under kill and over kill of animals.

Was talking to a cousin of mine that was out in the continent he said you have to be carefull what chokes you use when firing slugs out of an un rifled shotgun as you could catch the slug slightly upon exit and may cause damage or harm to gun and user. Don't know if there's any truth in that or what.

To me, using slugs on a fox is like hitting a screw with a hammer. The beauty of rifles is single accurate projectile. The beauty of shotguns, multiple spreading projectiles. I don't talk about "over kill" because I don't believe in it, dead is dead, no such thing as too dead. So to me, using a slug on a fox is using the wrong combination of tools for the job.

Remington have, or had, advice on shooting their slugs on their website. Then I guess you'd have to check out info on a particular shotgun and work out whether it's safe or not.

Grizzly 45

As said,its a compromise.
It gets you somwhat more range than shotgun pelletts,and less accruacy than a rifle,and less over travel/penetration than a rifle at short distances.
Hence some states in the US only allow slugs in some hunting areas near urban conurbations.

@hunter21 if that was the case of them getting caught on the choke end.Wouldnt that apply to your plastic shotcup as well?? With the same results?
A barrel blow out.
It would suggest that this happened to somonre with a badly installed/faulty choke tube.

beretta686s

johngalway wrote: »

What type of foxes do you have that need slugs

dead 1'sssssssss;);););)

Hunter21

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

As said,its a compromise.
It gets you somwhat more range than shotgun pelletts,and less accruacy than a rifle,and less over travel/penetration than a rifle at short distances.
Hence some states in the US only allow slugs in some hunting areas near urban conurbations.

@hunter21 if that was the case of them getting caught on the choke end.Wouldnt that apply to your plastic shotcup as well?? With the same results?
A barrel blow out.
It would suggest that this happened to somonre with a badly installed/faulty choke tube.

I can't speak from experience as I've never used or seen slugs in person but yes in theory the shotcup would get caught, but in my view shotcup would compress easier compared to a lead slug. Could be totally wrong though.

Grizzly 45

They compress all right.Been there ,used them,have shot things with them.There would have to be somthing seriously wrong with a screw in choke if they or shot cups were getting caught in the gap between a choke mating into the barrel.

jhcossie

they can be bought in angling and outdoor center in waterford i got them before bout a year ago for when i came across a fox and used 3of em on rabbits was a big mess

kildare.17hmr

jhcossie wrote: »

they can be bought in angling and outdoor center in waterford i got them before bout a year ago for when i came across a fox and used 3of em on rabbits was a big mess

Would love to see that picture!!

djflawless

just seen on the nargc facebook page,
talks/rumours of wild boar being re-itroduced to ireland....pleeeaaasssseee make it happen, make itb legal to shoot with shotguns,, AND RE-INTRODUCE LEGAL SLUGS!!!!!!

Vegeta

djflawless wrote: »

AND RE-INTRODUCE LEGAL SLUGS!!!!!!

Slugs are legal, they're just restricted.