Poll: who will represent Ireland at the Olympic Road Race?

Slideshowbob

Selection criteria here:

http://www.cyclingireland.ie/Home/News/Olympic-Criteria.aspx

Commentary here:

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/cycling-ireland-unveils-olympic-criteria-stickybottle-weighs-up-the-contenders/

Carpenter

Philip Deignan

After loosing the way he did to Matt Brammeier this year Dan will do wonders in 2012 wait and see

Beasty

Current poll result includes

Other
morana, Tenzor07

I reckon morana's coming out of "retirement" and fancies his chances;)

morana

Beasty wrote: »

Current poll result includes

I reckon morana's coming out of "retirement" and fancies his chances;)

Not retired just yet!!!!

Did a recce on Box hill and it suits my characterisitics !
Having seen it on Eurosport I believe Nico has a chance.

Remember Athens Ciaran Power did an amazing ride I think Nico should be there or there abouts after 9 laps....if he is selected

Beasty

I reckon Ireland's best chance lies with a quick invasion and sequestration of the IOM;)

morana

Beasty wrote: »

I reckon Ireland's best chance lies with a quick invasion and sequestration of the IOM;)

I think, my friend you are obviously ushering the new year in early or drowning your sorrows after the humiliation of your team today by an outfit that would not be out of place in the 3rd division but are very good at getting draws!

Slideshowbob

Philip Deignan

Looking at the results it's clear to see people think DM and NR are obvious choices, then MB presumably because of his time trial ability and the fact that the tt'er will come from the group of 3.

If I am right in my quick scan of the selection criteria (morana can correct me) it looks like the selection will be determined by results in the first half of the 2012 season in pro races.

Not sure if the selection committee will have much to do or if science lab results will be relyed on.

The dark horse would look to be Philip Deignan, who with leadership on a new team, may rack up some points in early 2012, so I am wondering if he, DM and NR make the criteria, who would ride the TT??

morana

Slideshowbob wrote: »

Looking at the results it's clear to see people think DM and NR are obvious choices, then MB presumably because of his time trial ability and the fact that the tt'er will come from the group of 3.

If I am right in my quick scan of the selection criteria (morana can correct me) it looks like the selection will be determined by results in the first half of the 2012 season in pro races.

Not sure if the selection committee will have much to do or if science lab results will be relyed on.

The dark horse would look to be Philip Deignan, who with leadership on a new team, may rack up some points in early 2012, so I am wondering if he, DM and NR make the criteria, who would ride the TT??

yes you are correct about the results. The selection committee will get the results and fill out the matrix based on the items in it. I am sure the fitness test will be only used to ascertain that a borderline case isnt way off the mark. conceivably none of them might score points in the allotted time frame meaning a lot would be up for grabs in the Ras!!!

With Philip I dont know what his programme will be in relation to UCI events.I think most of events are National events in the US this is the same for Olivia dillon.

CramCycle

Other

Surely Nicholas Roche isn't allowed enter the Olympics?

morana

CramCycle wrote: »

Surely Nicholas Roche isn't allowed enter the Olympics?

?

Slideshowbob

Philip Deignan

CramCycle wrote: »

Surely Nicholas Roche isn't allowed enter the Olympics?

He is subject to meeting CI selection criteria

Pros were allowed back in the road race from 1996 onwards

CramCycle

Other

Slideshowbob wrote: »

He is subject to meeting CI selection criteria

Pros were allowed back in the road race from 1996 onwards

My bad, I forgot they changed that.

Slideshowbob

Philip Deignan

CramCycle wrote: »

Slideshowbob wrote: »

He is subject to meeting CI selection criteria

Pros were allowed back in the road race from 1996 onwards

My bad, I forgot they changed that.

"My bad" ?!?

CramCycle

Other

Slideshowbob wrote: »

"My bad" ?!?

As in, I am sorry for making you point out what I probably should have known, i.e. it was my fault that you had to waste time to point it out. In this case, My Bad, meaning, my mistake, he is allowed enter, and it was in error that I thought otherwise.

To my knowledge it is a common slang term that has been used since at least the 70s/80s although a quick google indicates Shakesphere used it in Sonnet 112. Not being a fan of Shakesphere I could not comment on whether he meant it in a related manner.

(I also live with a 15yo and often pick up such day to day terms by accident and without my approval).

Another google indicates it may be the modern day equivalent of the Latin "Mea Culpa", which is similar in meaning and intent in use.

Anyway OT, so apologies.

Slideshowbob

Philip Deignan

CramCycle wrote: »

Slideshowbob wrote: »

"My bad" ?!?

As in, I am sorry for making you point out what I probably should have known, i.e. it was my fault that you had to waste time to point it out. In this case, My Bad, meaning, my mistake, he is allowed enter, and it was in error that I thought otherwise.

To my knowledge it is a common slang term that has been used since at least the 70s/80s although a quick google indicates Shakesphere used it in Sonnet 112. Not being a fan of Shakesphere I could not comment on whether he meant it in a related manner.

(I also live with a 15yo and often pick up such day to day terms by accident and without my approval).

Another google indicates it may be the modern day equivalent of the Latin "Mea Culpa", which is similar in meaning and intent in use.

Anyway OT, so apologies.

Thanks for the explanation

Your bad indeed. But not to worry, this is a discussion forum

ROK ON

Interesting topic. A few questions however:
1 are Roche & Martin the ideal choice given their particular strengths versus the parcours of the day. Both seem to excel on a more selective course. Maybe less high profile cyclist (say Bennett or McCann or Irvine) would be more suitable for a high finish.
2 Roche will no doubt be targeting a GC finish in the TdF. Martin if selected will probably go for glory in the mountains. How does this impact on their readiness for the Olympic RR.
3 big DM fan but I can't believe he is in receipt of 40k as a grant. Given his successes in past two years I am assuming he gets a decent wage from Garmin and that that money could be better spent on cyclists with a less secure income.

The Crunch

Does anyone (Anto?) know why the men's time trial rider has to come from the three road race riders?
How much more expensive is it to send a fourth rider? We could have a whip round for a Ryanair flight if that would help.
That way, if Deignan, Martin, Roche and Brammeier all have good seasons they could all go to London.
And what's the story with David McCann? Is he going back to Asia this season or has he packed it in? He's scored lots of points over there in recent years. Theoretically he could be the highest qualified rider by the deadline.

Slideshowbob

Philip Deignan

ROK ON wrote: »

Interesting topic. A few questions however:
1 are Roche & Martin the ideal choice given their particular strengths versus the parcours of the day. Both seem to excel on a more selective course. Maybe less high profile cyclist (say Bennett or McCann or Irvine) would be more suitable for a high finish.
2 Roche will no doubt be targeting a GC finish in the TdF. Martin if selected will probably go for glory in the mountains. How does this impact on their readiness for the Olympic RR.
3 big DM fan but I can't believe he is in receipt of 40k as a grant. Given his successes in past two years I am assuming he gets a decent wage from Garmin and that that money could be better spent on cyclists with a less secure income.

Roche and Martin are no-one's "choice" yet - they have to get points afaik.

Do you have a fairer means of selection than the one proposed by CI?

You really think a flatter course suits McCann better than Roche or Martin!?!

Cav will be riding the TDF and will be favourite for the Road Race. It's unfair not to consider a certain rider just because they are good enough to ride the Tour don't you think?

Martin's 40k is similar to the situation where Sonia O'Sullivan got a relatively high grant years back when she was at the height of her career. The process hasn't really changed much. The irony is athletes get bigger grants when they actually get to a level where they don't need them!!

Slideshowbob

Philip Deignan

morana wrote: »

yes you are correct about the results. The selection committee will get the results and fill out the matrix based on the items in it. I am sure the fitness test will be only used to ascertain that a borderline case isnt way off the mark. conceivably none of them might score points in the allotted time frame meaning a lot would be up for grabs in the Ras!!!

With Philip I dont know what his programme will be in relation to UCI events.I think most of events are National events in the US this is the same for Olivia dillon.

Will PD not score any selection points in USA unless they are UCI events?

morana

ROK ON wrote: »

Interesting topic. A few questions however:
.
3 big DM fan but I can't believe he is in receipt of 40k as a grant. Given his successes in past two years I am assuming he gets a decent wage from Garmin and that that money could be better spent on cyclists with a less secure income.

Dan is world class afaik and gets 40k from the sports council. All of our carded athletes make a contribution back to CI, but it is essentially their money. If you check our website or Stickbottle where conor has done a piece "what you need to do to get money from the ISC" or something like that.

The Crunch wrote: »

Does anyone (Anto?) know why the men's time trial rider has to come from the three road race riders?
How much more expensive is it to send a fourth rider? We could have a whip round for a Ryanair flight if that would help.
That way, if Deignan, Martin, Roche and Brammeier all have good seasons they could all go to London.
And what's the story with David McCann? Is he going back to Asia this season or has he packed it in? He's scored lots of points over there in recent years. Theoretically he could be the highest qualified rider by the deadline.

Ireland qualified 4 riders but the Schleck rule was invoked which knocked us back to 3. Essentially with the Schlecks points they could qualify 5 riders so they came up with a rule to prevent this.Unfortunately for us it meant we lost a place. The TT guy has to ride the road is an OCI rule to limit the number of athletes I presume.

Slideshowbob wrote: »

Will PD not score any selection points in USA unless they are UCI events?

if they are uci ranked then yes he will. A lot of the events are NE(national events) and I know that this was the case in the past. As an example look at the Jayco classic currently in OZ. I would have thought that must be a 2.1 but its a NE.

morana

Slideshowbob wrote: »

Do you have a fairer means of selection than the one proposed by CI?

As somebody who has been assisting in the re-modelling of the Selection Criteria for next years major events this is probably the best most transparent way to do it. Sure you can track the results and fill out most of the matrix and then we can argue about the suitability etc.

The british basically choose who they deem will do the job on the day and its a little less objective than us.

Slideshowbob

Philip Deignan

morana wrote: »

Slideshowbob wrote: »

Do you have a fairer means of selection than the one proposed by CI?

As somebody who has been assisting in the re-modelling of the Selection Criteria for next years major events this is probably the best most transparent way to do it. Sure you can track the results and fill out most of the matrix and then we can argue about the suitability etc.

The british basically choose who they deem will do the job on the day and its a little less objective than us.

I agree. I was putting it up to the poster who questioned the criteria as upon my initial look at it, it seems it is well thought out

Beasty

morana wrote: »

The british basically choose who they deem will do the job on the day and its a little less objective than us.

But the Brits can "afford" to be more selective as they have numerous riders who would qualify whatever the criteria. The whole team (with the possible exception of the TT rider, although probably not if that's going to be Wiggins) will be picked with a view to delivering Cav to the finish in what will hopefully be the the front Group

The Irish will not have enough riders to compete based on team tactics alone, and hence more "objective" selection selection criteria could be considered more appropriate.

Slideshowbob

Philip Deignan

Beasty wrote: »

morana wrote: »

The british basically choose who they deem will do the job on the day and its a little less objective than us.

But the Brits can "afford" to be more selective as they have numerous riders who would qualify whatever the criteria. The whole team (with the possible exception of the TT rider, although probably not if that's going to be Wiggins) will be picked with a view to delivering Cav to the finish in what will hopefully be the the front Group

The Irish will not have enough riders to compete based on team tactics alone, and hence more "objective" selection selection criteria could be considered more appropriate.

I gather CI have implemented these criteria for fairness to all involved. Good on them for this.

We are different to GB in that they will gear a team around Cav, the best sprinter in the world.

Even if Ireland could have 10 in the race without such a sprinter results would not be as good all things being equal