"Garda Freeflow in Operation Signs" at Blanch Centre

athtrasna

Meant to post about this before Christmas but I was over there again this evening and noticed signs dotted on the roads around the centre campus. Surely the Gardai would have something to say about these? The guys in high visibility jackets stopping traffic on the roundabouts and at the car parks actually hinder traffic progress IMO but there are certainly not Gardai.

Random

those signs annoyed the **** out of me too. ****ing high vizz people acting like idiots.

Toto Wolfcastle

I vaguely remember hearing on the news awhile back that the Gardai wouldn't be doing Operation Freeflow and that private companies would be employed to do it in busy areas like shopping centres. If what I remember is correct then I'd imagine that's why the signs are there.

athtrasna

The centre has often had staff in high vis causing traffic chaos on Saturday and Sunday evenings, most weekends AFAIK. It's the Garda bit I am querying...can you advertise that the Gardai are running the system when in fact it's not?

Austin1

On a similar note, I thought I heard somewhere that the so called 'bus lanes' around the Blanch Centre were not legally valid as that is all private property. Therefore you can't be done for driving in them. Anyone care to confirm or deny this?

I might have only dreamt that though……….

timbel

They are making some balls of the traffic alright - took me 30 mins to get from Lidl in Blakestown to the roundabout 250m down the road this evening.
All because the guy at the entrance to the retail car park (with Smyths, Atlantic, etc.) was stopping traffic to let cars exit the car park.
It was gridlock around all approaches..

jeffk

I stood up for them in a thread on the motors forum, but after one night a couple of weeks ago, I wouldn’t do the same for the latest crop of staff.


Two hours to get from Brookhaven (5 minutes outside waiting for my Da) to the yellow entrance and back. The one time the fella stopped doing his job outside the multi-story car park things moved better.


Surely they could use the traffic lights in and around the place to better effect. Or a one way system, or seen as its private land, entrance only if your using the shops( impossible to do im guessing). Also keep the buses to the outskirts.


To answer the OP question, I would guess its maybe so people heed the workers and don’t try to run them down as they think it’s to do with the Guards, rather than Blanch centre random staff free flow in Operation Signs.

Alaska1

My main concern is what actual courses the lads in high visibility jackets were actually sent on to qualify them to direct traffic, not rocket science, granted but it really seem they don't know what they are doing.

Victor

Austin1 wrote: »

On a similar note, I thought I heard somewhere that the so called 'bus lanes' around the Blanch Centre were not legally valid as that is all private property. Therefore you can't be done for driving in them. Anyone care to confirm or deny this?

I would be inclined to deny. The centre has some arrangement with the council that the roads (not the car parks) are in the charge of the council, so the full rules apply. In any case, most of the rules would apply anyway in the car parks as there is full public access. In contrast, you need permission to be in the delivery yards, so the Road Traffic Acts wouldn't apply there.

Two questions:

Do you want to be the idiot stuck in the bus lane delaying dozens of people on the bus?

Would you run a red traffic light on private property?

ThisRegard

This evening was particularly brutal, the car park on the Atlantic side was completely jammed from before 5 until after 6. We went for coffee until it cleared but it seemed that the majority of people thought the centre closed at 6 and hence the rush to get out. We wandered back into the centre after and it was empty, as too were the car parks even though it was a late night.

athtrasna

Wonder is this applies http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2005/en/act/pub/0020/sec0060.html

Offence of impersonating member of Garda Síochána.

60.— (1) A person is guilty of an offence if he or she—

(a) impersonates a member of the Garda Síochána, or

(b) makes any statement or does any act calculated falsely to suggest that he or she is such a member.

(2) A person guilty of an offence under subsection (1) is liable—

(a) on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding €3,000 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or both, or

(b) on conviction on indictment, to a fine not exceeding €50,000 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or both.

jack presley

Alaska1 wrote: »

My main concern is what actual courses the lads in high visibility jackets were actually sent on to qualify them to direct traffic, not rocket science, granted but it really seem they don't know what they are doing.

I presume because it is on Blanch centre land, their high viz lads are authorised to direct traffic and I can't just choose to ignore their instructions because they're not proper Gardai?

athtrasna

They may be..though I'm not sure how binding their direction is. However my point is that if you put up a sign on a road that a Garda checkpoint was in operation and stood in a high vis jacket, you would be arrested for impersonating a Garda. If the roads on the centre campus are indeed public as has already been suggested, then why are they getting away with these signs.

Victor

Victor wrote: »

I would be inclined to deny. The centre has some arrangement with the council that the roads (not the car parks) are in the charge of the council, so the full rules apply. In any case, most of the rules would apply anyway in the car parks as there is full public access. In contrast, you need permission to be in the delivery yards, so the Road Traffic Acts wouldn't apply there.

Quick question Victor, very few people can legally stop traffic. If the council look after the roads, then the RTA applies, and therefore the men have no legal right to stop traffic.
Five people who are allowed to stop traffic:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056316277&page=2
1) A Garda
2) An official from the Revenue Commissioners
3) A lollipop lady (or man) (sorry i don't know the proper name is it school traffic warden?)
4) A person in charge of animals School traffic warden is correct.
5) any person with a Stop/Go sign who is authorised by the Local Authority.

Agree with most of the posters, the fellas havent got a clue! I have wanted to ignore them on many occasions, but never have. I think I should though!

hotmail.com

I took the view that they were private citizens on the road moving their hands around and I ignored them.

A lot of other people did too.

They were awful at the job.

Alaska1

hotmail.com wrote: »

I took the view that they were private citizens on the road moving their hands around and I ignored them.

A lot of other people did too.

They were awful at the job.

I think alot of people have become frustrated with their efforts.

High viz lads clearly not trained on traffic control and are a hinderence more than a cure.

I firmly believe they clog up more traffic.

DeltaEightOne

I would find it very hard to believe that these guys have ANY legal authority to stop traffic on a road that the co council is responsible for, and I would like to see what would happen if there was a smash as a result of their actions. I know of one person (who shall remain nameless) who was driving a double deck bus through a bus lane around the Blanch SC when one of these clowns "tried" to stop the bus as well (and they werent intending to board at a bus stop either!) - lets put in this way, the driver of the bus wasnt stopping, and the guy trying to "stop" the bus had to change his trousers. Serves the idiot right in my opinion. And that trick of blocking the bus lane was never attempted again.

I am not trying to encourage any driver to drive like this, beligerence is not the answer but many people are far too apologetic to these yellow jacket guys and they get away with murder. But what other solution to cure beligerence on the part of these yellowjackets but be even more beligerent than they are, i.e: place hand firmly on the horn, making plenty of noise and keep moving slowly but progressively towards them. They are endangering themselves by standing in the middle of the road and if they see that you mean business, they wont argue with you. And if they do, remind them they are breaking the law and have no right to impinge on the flow of traffic. If they do argue with you, stop in such a way that NO ONE can get out, and the Gardai then have to act. You wont get any thanks off joe public but its one way of getting the problem solved.

No private company or their agents (i.e: security guards, car park attendants etc) has any legal basis to stop, direct or otherwise interfere with the flow of traffic on a PUBLIC road that EVERY motorist pays ROAD TAX to use, especially when these numbskulls stop the traffic on the PUBLIC road to allow vehicles out of THEIR "private" car park, unless they are authorised by or acting on behalf of the local council. Whilst its not rocket science to direct traffic, all heavy volumes of traffic of any kind (be they human or vehicular) must be managed from a balanced and measured perspective, and not in the typical "panic stations!! - we've got to get everything out to get more in" that these guys are either instructed to do, or do of their own accord. And what happens when you put too much traffic, through too small a gap, far too quickly, you get abseloute bedlam and the situation descends into chaos, and the shopping centres problem now becomes a much, much bigger problem.

Whilst an attendant/security guard) may hold their hand up and stand in the middle of the road implying that they have more authority than they do, weither they are 7ft tall and 4ft wide and might "talk the talk", I would suggest that these guys are acting way beyond what is their business to control. They are, I believe from a legal point of view, only REQUESTING traffic to stop, and no driver I believe is under any compulsion to do this, if these idiots refuse to move, they are blocking the natural flow of traffic and in my opinion this is in no more way legal that standing in front of someone walking on a public highway and refusing to let them pass is.

Heres some food for thought, if these guys (the yellow-jackets) had any authority then that means that Dundrum Town Centre boys can do the same thing, and LUAS inspectors/drivers can direct/stop/beckon traffic whenever the LUAS crashes. I've yet to see this happen with Dundrum TC and I know of plenty of LUAS staff who have been given a right bollocking off from a Garda Sgt in Dublin Castle for employing the same kind of tricks. So how the hell do these wannabe Garda yellowcoats get away with it?

Again I would love to see what would happen if one of these numbskulls caused a crash and had to explain themselves in court...

Judge: "You mean to tell me you were directing traffic on a public road"
Yellowcoat: "Our car park was full, we were very busy"
Judge: "Are you a member of An Garda Siochana... Mr/Ms (name)?"
Yellowcoat "No, I am not, but we were very, very busy, I was helping"
Judge: "Helping who exactly? Your employer? The motorist?"

Stark

Of course they have authority, they're wearing hi-viz :eek:

KoolKid

I find them very frustrating & the traffic moves better when try are not there. I think there are 2 mains issues here. 1 is the sign giving the impression they are Garda. Maybe someone could post a pic that could be passed onto the Garda Press Office.
Secondly I don't believe they have any rights to stop traffic either.
Not to mention the crazy no right turn rules all over the place there. All they do is send traffic needlessly around the other 3 sides of the square.

athtrasna

KoolKid wrote: »

Not to mention the crazy no right turn rules all over the place there. All they do is send traffic needlessly around the other 3 sides of the square.

They don't? The no right turn signs send people to the nearest roundabout (usually no more than 150m) so that they can double back. I actually think these should be more permanent obstacles than traffic cones, people turning right in traffic hold up two lanes. No need for right turns with so many roundabouts.

KoolKid

How does making a right turn hold up 2 lanes of traffic?
Unless its some obnoxious driver who stops in the middle of the road.
I take your point about the roundabouts, but you are still sending traffic into extra junctions. If traffic is bad you are sending more traffic needlessly onto another roundabout. Not to mention if one of these guys are directing traffic there its going to be twice as bad anyway.

athtrasna

KoolKid wrote: »

How does making a right turn hold up 2 lanes of traffic?
Unless its some obnoxious driver who stops in the middle of the road.
I take your point about the roundabouts, but you are still sending traffic into extra junctions. If traffic is bad you are sending more traffic needlessly onto another roundabout. Not to mention if one of these guys are directing traffic there its going to be twice as bad anyway.

The no right turns are into or out of car parks. If you are turning right out of a car park into traffic you need the left lane and the right lane both to stop/leave gaps for you to fit in to. Forcing them to go left as far as the next roundabout is the lesser of two evils IMO

KoolKid

If the traffic is backed up anyway your not delaying anyone.
If its not you go when its clear. Still not blocking or delaying anyone.
Shortest route out equals less traffic IMO.