Communal dish installers

Doodee

Hi there,
I was wondering if anyone could recommend a company to do installation and servicing of a communal satellite dish for an apartment block.

I was also wondering if once installed, could people also use this dish for Sky subscriptions?
I know that you can have a dish installed specifically for Sky but they have told us that we would not be able to use the system for FTA only.

Thanks!

STB

Doodee wrote: »

Hi there,
Q1 I was wondering if anyone could recommend a company to do installation and servicing of a communal satellite dish for an apartment block.

Q2 I was also wondering if once installed, could people also use this dish for Sky subscriptions?

Q3 I know that you can have a dish installed specifically for Sky but they have told us that we would not be able to use the system for FTA only.

Thanks!

Q1 - http://www.isaa.tv/ - Will have a list of installers in your area. You should know your requirements from the outset. Is it an existing wired development ?


Q2 - Yes, but the level of Sky usage will be dependant upon existing infrastructure. Eg. For Sky+ you need 2 cables coming in - one to view - one to record. Unless you have 2 cables coming in or a fibre optic cable system, you will need to have this wired up - possibly a considerable expense. Otherwise no Sky+ facilities - unless wired as such already.

Q3. There are NO specific dishes to be installed for Sky. They point at the same satellite used for FTA! What happens in reality is that the likes of the sky for homes or sky themselves will not install a system for you unless everyone subscribes to Sky.

That is why you are preceding the right way. Get an independent installer to hook up each apartment. Should people require Sky they only need to connect a Sky box to the existing cabled infrastructure. That is there own private agreement using your existing system. Sky only need access into the apartment itself for this process.

You normally would keep the independent sat installer on a maintenance retainer each year to service and solve issues (a few k - €3ish). This would be taken out of the management fee that owners pay every year like other essential services etc.

Doodee

STB wrote: »

Q1 - http://www.isaa.tv/ - Will have a list of installers in your area. You should know your requirements from the outset. Is it an existing wired development ?


Q2 - Yes, but the level of Sky usage will be dependant upon existing infrastructure. Eg. For Sky+ you need 2 cables coming in - one to view - one to record. Unless you have 2 cables coming in or a fibre optic cable system, you will need to have this wired up - possibly a considerable expense. Otherwise no Sky+ facilities - unless wired as such already.

Q3. There are NO specific dishes to be installed for Sky. They point at the same satellite used for FTA! What happens in reality is that the likes of the sky for homes or sky themselves will not install a system for you unless everyone subscribes to Sky.

That is why you are preceding the right way. Get an independent installer to hook up each apartment. Should people require Sky they only need to connect a Sky box to the existing cabled infrastructure. That is there own private agreement using your existing system. Sky only need access into the apartment itself for this process.

You normally would keep the independent sat installer on a maintenance retainer each year to service and solve issues (a few k - €3ish). This would be taken out of the management fee that owners pay every year like other essential services etc.

Thanks for the reply!

As regards Q1, it is not an existing wired development. The previously investigated Sky installer suggested running cables from the dish down to the subscribing apartments. I assume this should be ok for any alternative system we choose?

Also, regarding installer fee's. Will they include installs on the maintenance retainer or is that specifically for any issues with the dish?

Thanks again.

STB

Doodee wrote: »

Thanks for the reply!

As regards Q1, it is not an existing wired development. The previously investigated Sky installer suggested running cables from the dish down to the subscribing apartments. I assume this should be ok for any alternative system we choose?

Also, regarding installer fee's. Will they include installs on the maintenance retainer or is that specifically for any issues with the dish?

Thanks again.

Sky installers would just suggest running down to the apartments that subscribe to Sky. They are only interested in money. Do not get into bed with Sky.

I presume you are on some form of management committee acting in the interests of the apartment owners?

You say no wiring is done at all previously. Does the development have cabling (TV points even) within the apartments themselves ? Presumably they do if built in the last 10 years.

Well then those cables go back to a room for future connection in a network type configuration.

This is where the independent installer will come in. He will set up a patch room where those cables are and junction them with a system that will run to a communal area usually on the top of the building i.e. a few communal dishes.

How many apartments in the block ? If the number is significant, then the cost for the hardware upfront costs might be significant. You could cover these cost with a once off connection fee to each apartment. Easy sold as a no further bills basis.

The important thing is that you keep it FTA. The choice of Sky is then on an apartment by apartment basis and does not require any Sky installer interaction with the infrastructure which would be maintained by the independent installer, that is what I meant by yearly retainer. Its a few grand each year which covers call outs for problems and maintenance of the infrastructure each year and comes out of the management fees.

Having a pay only wired install shouldnt be considered an alternative as you will never have a basic FTA system and will always be pandering to Sky. Satellite and FTA should be a basic wired service without long term charges. By the way when the sat signal is sent to each apartment the independent installer should also be asked to bundle UHF(Saorview) signal on that same cable. It is then split at each apartment by a simple €2 splitter in each apartment which means you get all the terrestrial as well as the satellite FTA stations. For the FTA customer they only need by a HD combo box receiver to get all the free Irish and British stations with no further bills (about €95 once off).

An example of the hardware that junctions the dishes is one of these.

http://www.tvtrade.ie/5x32-satellite-and-terrestrial-multiswitch.html

This is just a basic example of ONE single feed going to 32 apartments being fed by a dish. http://www.tvtrade.ie/5x32-satellite-and-terrestrial-multiswitch.html

The distance travelled will involve more hardware. Again the importance of what you want from the outset cant be stressed enough. What you consider a minimum requirement for each apartment will have a knock on effect on peoples expectations.

One connection to each apartment means no record facilities whilst watching another station for FTA (and no Sky+ facilities for those who use Sky boxes). It will be just basic receive scenario in one room.

Two connections at least means record facilties or at least 2 rooms with receive only facility. So taking the scenario of the multiswitch above it means 2 run to each apartment, meaning only 16 apartments would be served by that one multiswitch.

So make sure you get straight what your basic requirements are from the start.

That way you will be able to compare like with like when getting quotes from the independent installers. Otherwise you will be bamboozled and the quotes will mean nothing.

ISAA

STB wrote: »

Sky installers would just suggest running down to the apartments that subscribe to Sky. They are only interested in money. Do not get into bed with Sky.

I presume you are on some form of management committee acting in the interests of the apartment owners?

You say no wiring is done at all previously. Does the development have cabling (TV points even) within the apartments themselves ? Presumably they do if built in the last 10 years.

Well then those cables go back to a room for future connection in a network type configuration.

This is where the independent installer will come in. He will set up a patch room where those cables are and junction them with a system that will run to a communal area usually on the top of the building i.e. a few communal dishes.

How many apartments in the block ? If the number is significant, then the cost for the hardware upfront costs might be significant. You could cover these cost with a once off connection fee to each apartment. Easy sold as a no further bills basis.

The important thing is that you keep it FTA. The choice of Sky is then on an apartment by apartment basis and does not require any Sky installer interaction with the infrastructure which would be maintained by the independent installer, that is what I meant by yearly retainer. Its a few grand each year which covers call outs for problems and maintenance of the infrastructure each year and comes out of the management fees.

Having a pay only wired install shouldnt be considered an alternative as you will never have a basic FTA system and will always be pandering to Sky. Satellite and FTA should be a basic wired service without long term charges. By the way when the sat signal is sent to each apartment the independent installer should also be asked to bundle UHF(Saorview) signal on that same cable. It is then split at each apartment by a simple €2 splitter in each apartment which means you get all the terrestrial as well as the satellite FTA stations. For the FTA customer they only need by a HD combo box receiver to get all the free Irish and British stations with no further bills (about €95 once off).

An example of the hardware that junctions the dishes is one of these.

http://www.tvtrade.ie/5x32-satellite-and-terrestrial-multiswitch.html

This is just a basic example of ONE single feed going to 32 apartments being fed by a dish. http://www.tvtrade.ie/5x32-satellite-and-terrestrial-multiswitch.html

The distance travelled will involve more hardware. Again the importance of what you want from the outset cant be stressed enough. What you consider a minimum requirement for each apartment will have a knock on effect on peoples expectations.

One connection to each apartment means no record facilities whilst watching another station for FTA (and no Sky+ facilities for those who use Sky boxes). It will be just basic receive scenario in one room.

Two connections at least means record facilties or at least 2 rooms with receive only facility. So taking the scenario of the multiswitch above it means 2 run to each apartment, meaning only 16 apartments would be served by that one multiswitch.

So make sure you get straight what your basic requirements are from the start.

That way you will be able to compare like with like when getting quotes from the independent installers. Otherwise you will be bamboozled and the quotes will mean nothing.

Must agree, with all above, get a independent sat installer, and not sky.
One cable for sat/UHF, so tenants don't need sky for a great selection of channels.

homelink

ISAA wrote: »

Must agree, with all above, get a independent sat installer, and not sky.
One cable for sat/UHF, so tenants don't need sky for a great selection of channels.

Are you a member of the ISAA and if so are you representing the views of all the members? If not should you not change your login name?

watty

He's acting Chairman of the ISAA. Which exists to promote professional and safe standards to safeguard the Consumer.

Quattro LNBs and Multiswitches can feed 2000+ outlets. You need a larger dish for good enough SNR if you are splitting the signal from the quattros to feed multiple multi-switches, which is the preferred method for 16+ apartments each with a minimum of two feeds to main room and 3rd feed to a second room. All feeds can have aerials via the terrestrial port on the multiswitch(es). You can combine HF/VHF/DAB/UHF aerials onto one cable, use a cable TV trunk amp and 16 way splitter and feed 16 multiswitches.

At the room outlets you fit TV/Sat splitters. They feed everything below 900MHz to the TV connection. Which can include AM Radio, VHF-FM, DAB Radio and UHF Saorview.

Using pairs of Multiswitches, (i.e. each of the two cables come from separate switch), you can feed one set of multiswitches with aerials and the other set (if it's a passive, not amplified terrestrial in, which is better) with UPC cable or Digiweb Metro (via 2 way cable amplifier). Then the four outlets on the two cables in room are Sat1, Sat2 (for PVR), VHF/DAB/UHF and Cable TV/Broadband (UPC Modem or Digiweb Metro Broadband modem). There is no requirement at all to take TV when subscribing to UPC cable broadband.

STB

homelink wrote: »

Are you a member of the ISAA and if so are you representing the views of all the members? If not should you not change your login name?

Perhaps we should all declare our cards homelink.

Sky homes ?

My advice is from a consumer point of view having seen the approaches made to management agents by pay only companies to leave apartment owners with a Sky only or NOTHING scenario. Sky Homes or indeed Sky wont be happy with my advice!

homelink

ISAA wrote: »

Must agree, with all above, get a independent sat installer, and not sky.
One cable for sat/UHF, so tenants don't need sky for a great selection of channels.

My query was in relation to the above comments. Surely as acting chairman of The ISAA the comments should not reflect his preference and could be construed as a conflict of interest, bearing in mind that some members of the ISAA may not fully agree with the comments. It is one case to offer a valid opinion as an individual, but another completely if it appears to represent a group.

marco2068

homelink wrote: »

My query was in relation to the above comments. Surely as acting chairman of The ISAA the comments should not reflect his preference and could be construed as a conflict of interest, bearing in mind that some members of the ISAA may not fully agree with the comments. It is one case to offer a valid opinion as an individual, but another completely if it appears to represent a group.

yours is a statement rather than a query.

A system that lets each individual get whatever service they want does appear to me to be the best solution.

Doodee

watty wrote: »

Using pairs of Multiswitches, (i.e. each of the two cables come from separate switch), you can feed one set of multiswitches with aerials and the other set (if it's a passive, not amplified terrestrial in, which is better) with UPC cable or Digiweb Metro (via 2 way cable amplifier). Then the four outlets on the two cables in room are Sat1, Sat2 (for PVR), VHF/DAB/UHF and Cable TV/Broadband (UPC Modem or Digiweb Metro Broadband modem). There is no requirement at all to take TV when subscribing to UPC cable broadband.

So this won't interfere with existing UPC connections?

I just want to thank everyone who has replied, this info is very helpful, greatly appreciated too!

watty

If it's done PROPERLY.

jackwogan

Skyconway offer Sky, Hotbird and broadband for apartment blocks. There is no installation charge or maintance charged to management company.

Tony

jackwogan wrote: »

Skyconway offer Sky, Hotbird and broadband for apartment blocks. There is no installation charge or maintance charged to management company.

Indeed but it should be noted that they have featured in several threads on boards and if memory serves they were owned by Liam Carroll who also owns Danninger developments.

Cantona's Collars

Tony wrote: »

Indeed but it should be noted that they have featured in several threads on boards and if memory serves they were owned by Liam Carroll who also owns Danninger developments.

And of all those threads I've yet to see one that praises them,seems to be all bad reports.

LLU

Think there are quite a few threads about sky conway. Advise reading them carefully before proceeding!

icdg

Guys, can we take the inter-association rivalry elsewhere. Its not what Boards is for.

jackwogan

They where slated because of they were the only available option for people, but if people have options they are happy. We had UPC and we got skyconway in to install a hotbird and thor system they did that for free and only tennants that want their service go with them if not they stay with UPC. The management pay nothing ever.

Mountjoy Mugger

Finlay Comms wired our complex. We have the choice of Sky/Freesat/Polsat. The catch is that you pay for the Freesat box that they supply when they connect you. There's no annual maintenance charge.

They also offer a combi box with Saorview as an option. They will add other LNBs if there's a demand for other alternatives.

I'm led to believe negotions weren't easy.

Doodee

Mountjoy Mugger wrote: »

Finlay Comms wired our complex. We have the choice of Sky/Freesat/Polsat. The catch is that you pay for the Freesat box that they supply when they connect you. There's no annual maintenance charge.

They also offer a combi box with Saorview as an option. They will add other LNBs if there's a demand for other alternatives.

I'm led to believe negotions weren't easy.

how do you find their service?
we`re still trying to find an installer.

jackwogan

not sure about fin coms. but skyconway is www.skyconway.com I would ring both of them and see what both can do for you

Cantona's Collars

Try these guy's for a quote http://www.tvsolutions.ie/index.html

zg3409

Doodee,

There is a multitude of options for TV servcies for apartments. You get what you pay for. Ideally a system is specified before the apartments are built but in reality it doesn't work that way.

From what your have said UPC is currently available to all apartments. The number of apartments would also help.

Ideally every apartment would have a choice of Sky, UPC, free TV, foreign channels for foreigners

In the real world you probably got UPC from day 1. Dishes are probably banned under the apartment rules. Some people may have put up dishes and were asked to take them down. So then people hear on the radio about picking up Sky through one shared dish.

As mentioned Sky only want paying apartment dwellers and would prefer if they were the monopoly with them or nothing.

UPC would like to have a monopoly likewise.

Apartment owners would like to pay nothing, yet still have every channel possible, with the option of pay channels.

For all free channels the management committee can supply RTE and UK FreeSat channels which is enough for 80% of people, but they need to install quite a complicated and expensive system with cables to every room. Once installed there is very little maintenance required and as mentioned companies can provide a fixed annual cost for repairs.

The EXACT same system above can also supply Sky by swapping out the free box with the Sky box. For Sky+ two cables are needed (usually to the sitting room)

If you want tenants to have the option of foreign channels then this adds slightly to the cost but is a handy feature for larger blocks.

Wiring is similar to:
http://www.multimediasystems.co.uk/acatalog/Satellite_MultiSwitches.html

Case study here:
http://www.aerialtec.co.uk/communal-aerial-installers.htm

but not 100% relevant to Ireland.

In this economy the new install cost per apartment could be hard to justify/pay but it's probably a service that should be supplied in every apartment complex as standard.

Make sure you get someone who knows what they are doing and has loads of references and experience. No-one likes a dodgy TV picture.

It would be best to inform yourself of the options and what each on them would cost. If you explain how many apartments, how many 1 bed, 2 bed, 2 bed etc, how much per apartment you might have to spend, some people could give a rough quote.

If dishes are banned I think all apartment blocks managament companies should be required to supply at least basic Saorview/FreeSat with Sky option at a minimum. UPC is far cheaper for the management but a real monopoly with pay or no TV.

Dan