National archives Collection

herisson

Hey!

i know its an odd time to be posting this but i cant sleep and get very productive when i cant :P
My thesis to do with women fighting form 1913 to 1923 in Ireland
So im just looking at chapter 2 of my thesis and im confused by finding sources!
i was told to go to the national archives and read up on the Witness statements they have...but im so confused! i cant seem to find anything...anytime i search something a mass amount of stuff comes up and i dont really know how to know if they are witness statements or not arrggghh!!

I know for certain that i will probably get them in Cathal Brugha barracks but that is too far out of my way as i would be travelling from the Northside plus the fact i have to book in an appointment to view documents! Also my moderator told me that they have duplicate copies of them in National Archives but im having no luck at all!

Can anyone help me out at all?! I just really need to know how to tell if they are witness statements?!

thanks all

Cavehill Red

If you're doing a postgraduate research degree thesis, it's common in most universities to teach a research methods module. Did you attend one?

Failing that, there's always the option of using the librarians. They don't study to Master's level just to push trolleys of books about. And in the NLI, they are particularly specialised. So ask them your query. Tell them what you're looking for. Get some advice from them as to how their documents are filed, so that you can begin to identify what you need.

Use existing sources. In other words, if there are books that cite this kind of material already, look up the index of cited works at the back. It should give you the exact information you need to find that entire document cited. This goes especially for existing doctoral theses, which can be consulted in university libraries (you can get a reader's ticket for those you are not attached to.)

Speak with your academic advisor. Let them know that you are having some difficulty with research methodologies. Ask them for advice or guidance in how best to proceed.

herisson

thanks for the reply!

its actually an undergrad thesis there were some lectures to do with how to write it up and finding the resources. But they never explained it in great detail to be honest!

ill have to speak to my moderator again! i do need help!
I think i might just email them and ask how to distinguish between witness statements or i will just go to dublin! The Archives just confuse me much prefer the National Library!

Anyway thanks again!

johnny_doyle

a list of witness statements can be found online at

http://www.militaryarchives.ie/fileadmin/user_upload/documents/The_Bureau_of_Military_History_1913-1921_Index_to_Contributors_01.pdf

a search for mBan gives 78 hits. Sister 21 etc....

A couple re 1916 are online at

http://www.nationalarchives.ie/topics/1916/gallery.html

The 1916 Rebellion Handbook mentions that 77 women were prisoners at Richmond Barracks. 72 released, 5 interned. It lists 64 of the women released on 22nd May.

There was an article in the papers recently about the Norgrove girls following the recent find of an arms cache which you should be able to find online.

Some resources which may help :

http://www.sineadmccoole.com/gonebutnotforgotten%5C/references/index.htm

http://www.rcpi.ie/HeritageCentre/Documents/Kathleen%20Lynn%20Diaries.pdf

Dr.Nightdub

Military Archives in Cathal Brugha Barracks will e-mail you pdf's of witness statements if you ask them - within reason, obviously, dunno how a request for 78 would go down. They're amazingly helpful though.

convert

Pixie-Fairy wrote: »

Hey!
I know for certain that i will probably get them in Cathal Brugha barracks but that is too far out of my way as i would be travelling from the Northside plus the fact i have to book in an appointment to view documents!

One of the joys of doing primary research is that you get the opportunity to work in different archives and libraries across the country to find the material that will augment and enhance the quality of your work, whether a thesis (postgrad or undergrad), a book or just something you're doing for pleasure. Sure, some of the archives may be a little awkard to get to, but saying that you don't want to go there simply because you're travelling from the Northside and you have to make an appointment is just pure laziness.

Think about all the people who have to travel from other parts of the country to access archives, or those who have to visit libraries abroad because their primary source material isn't here. There were 3 people (out of 15 in my BA class) who had to travel to either France or Britain to find material relevant to their thesis. They would have been delighted if the sources were even in Ireland, let alone in Dublin.

Re. being able to identify witness statements: chat with your supervisor initially, and also don't be afraid to ask the staff at the libaries and archives for their help: they're often very knowledgeable and more than happy to help you and point you in the right direction. And if they don't know, they may be able to direct you to somebody who does.

I know it's daunting to start using a 'new' archive/library having being based at one place for so long, but thinking about visiting a new place is always much worse than actually doing it!

herisson

@ Johnny_Doyle......you are awesome! the archives website genuinely confused the crap out of me! i did not know there were some online!

i have heard of the Norgrove girls but the only info i can find for it is a link to it on boards form earlier this year.....i think i might email the journalist to see if i can get an electronic copy of the article for reference for chapter 1 just to add it in. i have searched online and in the archives and library but i have not found anything except the link i found!

thanks for the Kathleen Lynn link also i am very interested in looking into her and her background especially in 1916 and the Anglo-Irish War


@ Dr. Nightdub....they can email you the witness statements?? :eek:
how have i never heard of this?!! obviously i wont get them to email all of them! i might get them to email a select few from the different eras!
this is so very very helpful thanks so much man

johnny_doyle

Have to agree with Convert re going to archives. Always worthwhile meeting the archivists in person - they have a wealth of information and can provide extra guidance/information sources.

A few more resources for you :

http://www.labour.ie/download/pdf/seven_women_of_the_labour_movement1916.pdf

http://www.corkuniversitypress.com/In_Their_Own_Voice:_Women_and_Irish_Nationalism/94/

http://www.hannashouse.ie/PDFs/PearseHouse.pdf


Please let us know how you get on getting the statements.

herisson

convert wrote: »

One of the joys of doing primary research is that you get the opportunity to work in different archives and libraries across the country to find the material that will augment and enhance the quality of your work, whether a thesis (postgrad or undergrad), a book or just something you're doing for pleasure. Sure, some of the archives may be a little awkard to get to, but saying that you don't want to go there simply because you're travelling from the Northside and you have to make an appointment is just pure laziness.

Think about all the people who have to travel from other parts of the country to access archives, or those who have to visit libraries abroad because their primary source material isn't here. There were 3 people (out of 15 in my BA class) who had to travel to either France or Britain to find material relevant to their thesis. They would have been delighted if the sources were even in Ireland, let alone in Dublin.

Re. being able to identify witness statements: chat with your supervisor initially, and also don't be afraid to ask the staff at the libaries and archives for their help: they're often very knowledgeable and more than happy to help you and point you in the right direction. And if they don't know, they may be able to direct you to somebody who does.

I know it's daunting to start using a 'new' archive/library having being based at one place for so long, but thinking about visiting a new place is always much worse than actually doing it!

Hey sorry i didnt see this message when i was writing it i didnt mean to look ignorant!
i think its just daunting going to a barracks and i still have no idea how to get there! i never actually realised how lazy i did sound either!
i was looking at more sources so i may have to go to Limerick for it!
and it is true visiting mew places can be great but that barracks is all official but i WILL go there!

@johnny_doyle dude you are actually amazing! thanks so much for your help! i will defo have a look at all of these! the Margaret Ward book is excellent i have used it extensively in Chapter 1!

i have contacted the archives via email and i forgot to put my last name in so i wont here back from them until tomorrow
my moderator is useless and wont actually get back to me and she still hasnt looked over Chapter 1 yet so i have no idea how im doing on it!

i will for definite get back to all of you! hope to Jesus i get somewhere with all these!! Thanks so much again

johnny_doyle

if you need to grab some photos, check the Irish Volunteers Group on Facebook and the Dublin Archives section on the Dublin.ie forums (separate photo threads for 1916, Tan War and Civil War)

http://www.facebook.com/groups/irishvolunteers/

http://www.dublin.ie/forums/forumdisplay.php?65-Dublin-Historical-Archive

convert

Pixie-Fairy wrote: »

my moderator is useless and wont actually get back to me and she still hasnt looked over Chapter 1 yet so i have no idea how im doing on it!

Is there anyone else in your department you could talk to about the topic and the witness statements? If so, you could send them a slightly informal (put respectful and polite!) email asking what they think about X, Y and Z and if they knew about any more witness statements or their experience on using the archives. That way you won't be seen to be undermining your own supervisor and could end up getting lots of extra information from someone else. This is pretty standard in most departments, but you'll have to be the judge for your own department.

herisson

convert that is not a bad idea at all!! i didnt think of that! i might just do that!

thanks

herisson

i have an update!

basically the national archives got back to me and explained everything

i just have to go to the link she sent me for the Bureau of Military History and take down the codes i need and if i have any problem i just have to contact a staff member!!

Thanks so much for everyones help! I really appreciate it

Ozymandiaz

johnny_doyle wrote: »

if you need to grab some photos, check the Irish Volunteers Group on Facebook and the Dublin Archives section on the Dublin.ie forums (separate photo threads for 1916, Tan War and Civil War)

http://www.facebook.com/groups/irishvolunteers/

http://www.dublin.ie/forums/forumdisplay.php?65-Dublin-Historical-Archive

JD, I looked into Dublin.ie Forums and was particularly interested in the threads about Glasnevin where I grew up. I tried to register but this has been disablied by the administrator. Do you know if these forums are still taking new members?

johnny_doyle

Ozymandiaz wrote: »

JD, I looked into Dublin.ie Forums and was particularly interested in the threads about Glasnevin where I grew up. I tried to register but this has been disablied by the administrator. Do you know if these forums are still taking new members?

it should be. The admins are bit funny at the moment because of some of the "bad behaviour" of some members on a few threads. The site is often shut at weekends now. I'd have another go.