Digital to analog converter to continue using old tv

euser1984

Hi,
Is it possible to do such a thing - I don't want to buy a new TV if possible

Thanks.

Charlie-Bravo

You'll have to buy a set top box - but what inputs do you have on your existing TV? Are you interested in HD and does your TV do HD? What is your current TV and what is your budget? Oh so many questions....

euser1984

Thanks for your response - it's just an old CRT with scart and BNC. I wouldn't be interested in HD at the moment anyway.

I don't really have a budget but I know a new TV would probably cost around 500 given that we would probably go for a 37"

Charlie-Bravo

There are a handful of saorview compliant boxes out there, and also a handful of non-compliant boxes - so if you're not interested in MHEG5 (teletext stuff) then you might get a cheap box.

Cheapest Saorview box in say Powercity is 60euro Universal Vision box

Because of the MPEG4 transmissions, get a Saorview approved box and not a Freeview box (MPEG2) to avoid making a mistake in purchasing. The freeview will more than likely not work!

euser1984

astrofluff wrote: »

There are a handful of saorview compliant boxes out there, and also a handful of non-compliant boxes - so if you're not interested in MHEG5 (teletext stuff) then you might get a cheap box.

Cheapest Saorview box in say Powercity is 60euro Universal Vision box

Because of the MPEG4 transmissions, get a Saorview approved box and not a Freeview box (MPEG2) to avoid making a mistake in purchasing. The freeview will more than likely not work!

Thanks. So it just a case of buy this and connect it to my aerial via BNC is it?

Peter Rhea

Here's the Saorview approved products list.

The boxes are mostly the same basic model with different branding. Use scart to connect the box to the tv.

Worth checking out this section of the site too; take a look at the coverage map.

Btw, aerials don't typically have BNC plugs, are you thinking of Belling-Lee?

euser1984

Peter Rhea wrote: »

Here's the Saorview approved products list.

The boxes are mostly the same basic model with different branding. Use scart to connect the box to the tv.

Worth checking out this section of the site too; take a look at the coverage map.

Btw, aerials don't typically have BNC plugs, are you thinking of Belling-Lee?

Oh right I didn't know they weren't BNC - thanks for that info.

Carawaystick

All Saorview approved boxes have scart out

reslfj

euser1984 wrote: »

Oh right I didn't know they weren't BNC - thanks for that info.

It may well be a very good idea to try with a box - Saorview or maybe an inexpensive FreeviewHD model - for now, but I will recommend saving for a new TV set within 12-18 months.

The future is digital and HDTV. A CRT tv is power hungry and will likely be much to expensive to repair should it be needed.

Take some time to look at some new TV sets and try to understand the basic principles. Don't try to be smart and fight the new principles.
If you expect to receive UK signals, a FreeviewHD TV set (DVB-T2) may be a better buy.

Try to understand that HDTV will soon be the standard and a HDMI cable is the (only) way to connect. SCART is analogue and SDTV only. The old 4:3 display format is very fast being replaced with 16:9 displays - you can expect the support for the 4:3 to be phased out.

Lars

PS! Aerial, Cable and Satellite have very different digital signals - DVB-T/T2, DVB-C and DVB-S/S2 are very, very different.

Mike 1972

reslfj wrote: »

Try to understand that HDTV will soon be the standard and a HDMI cable is the (only) way to connect. SCART is analogue and SDTV only. The old 4:3 display format is very fast being replaced with 16:9 displays - you can expect the support for the 4:3 to be phased out.

Lots of people couldnt give a flying fiddlers about HD and have little reason to throw perfectly good equipment into landfill particularly when only a tiny proportion of programming on a handful of channels is in true HD.

Any STB will have options for 4:3 or 16:9 displays and will do for years tocome.

Sam Russell

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Lots of people couldnt give a flying fiddlers about HD and have little reason to throw perfectly good equipment into landfill particularly when only a tiny proportion of programming on a handful of channels is in true HD.

Any STB will have options for 4:3 or 16:9 displays and will do for years tocome.

Agreed. It is part of the spec to have 4:3 and SD suported. A cheap non-compliant box that does MPEG4@HD and Scart, like the ones I sold, will do what most people need. If it only for a second set that is only used occasionaly, why would you want more.

JRH

26 euro :pac:


http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Mini-DVB-T-True-HD-Digital-Terrestrial-TV-Receiver-H-264-MPEG4-Box-Turner-FTA-/250952096538?pt=UK_Computing_Computer_Components_Graphics_Video_TV_Cards_TW&hash=item3a6de91b1a

Sam Russell

JRH wrote: »

26 euro :pac:


http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Mini-DVB-T-True-HD-Digital-Terrestrial-TV-Receiver-H-264-MPEG4-Box-Turner-FTA-/250952096538?pt=UK_Computing_Computer_Components_Graphics_Video_TV_Cards_TW&hash=item3a6de91b1a

That should do the trick all right. Just plug it into the Scart, attach the aerial and set it up. It uses the same chipset as my one so picture quality is excellent, but the software may not be set for Ireland, but you can get over that.

I am not involved in this at all anymore.

watty

It's a waste of money compared to an approved box as it's not certified, isn't fully compatible and doesn't support Text /MHEG5/Interactive, which is much more important than the Teletext that is likely ending in end 2012.

It may not have a PSU (power unit) suitable for Ireland or pass EU or Irish Safety tests.

Sam has a more limited view because he is not a reputable retailer, a manufacturer or a Enginneer with suitable lab to properly test these and has sold similar ones. JRH pimps these so often one wonders if he has a connection with the vendor.

At this stage anyone should only buy a Saorview certified box, or possibly at worst a genuine certified UK "Freeview+ HD" PVR. (But generally only if they can pickup N.I. or Welsh Freeview). IMO as someone involved in helping Consumers with their Rights and Technology it's bordering on irresponsible to recommend these kind of cheap generic products that may not even meet Irish Electrical standards apart from never meeting Saorview Spec.

watty

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Lots of people couldnt give a flying fiddlers about HD and have little reason to throw perfectly good equipment into landfill particularly when only a tiny proportion of programming on a handful of channels is in true HD.

Any STB will have options for 4:3 or 16:9 displays and will do for years to come.

Any Certified Saorview box.
Such a box will also have CE mark and meet Irish Electrical safety standards and legally must be sold with a fused UK/Irish style 3pin plug, (or possibly compliant screw locked fitted fused adapter pre-fitted)

JRH

watty wrote: »

It's a waste of money compared to an approved box as it's not certified, isn't fully compatible and doesn't support Text /MHEG5/Interactive, which is much more important than the Teletext that is likely ending in end 2012.

It may not have a PSU (power unit) suitable for Ireland or pass EU or Irish Safety tests.

Sam has a more limited view because he is not a reputable retailer, a manufacturer or a Enginneer with suitable lab to properly test these and has sold similar ones. JRH pimps these so often one wonders if he has a connection with the vendor.

At this stage anyone should only buy a Saorview certified box, or possibly at worst a genuine certified UK "Freeview+ HD" PVR. (But generally only if they can pickup N.I. or Welsh Freeview). IMO as someone involved in helping Consumers with their Rights and Technology it's bordering on irresponsible to recommend these kind of cheap generic products that may not even meet Irish Electrical standards apart from never meeting Saorview Spec.

Just an option for the OP :rolleyes: ... if he doesn't want to spend much on his older TV . I would say enough people here have now bought these to generally say they work well , give good picture and no one has reported issues as far as i can see .
I have no links with China just picked up two for friends who are thrilled with them ...

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Mini-DVB-T-Tr...item3a6de91b1a

watty

JRH wrote: »

I would say enough people here have now bought these to generally say they work well , give good picture and no one has reported issues as far as i can see .

You are not a qualified Engineer, you don't have a lab, your sample size is too small. It's not a responsible option for an unqualified consumer to recommend. But then you won't have to refund anyone.

If you have no connection, then stop pushing this stuff. If you have a connection, then stop, because you would be breaking Boards' rules.

RTE NL and the RTE, TV3 and TG4 channels are not yet using all features of Saorview. We know already it doesn't work with MHEG5. Safety issues of PSU need longer time and more units to show up.

If you are going to recommend such a obviously incompatible with Saorview and Irish Plugs direct import will you stand over it and refund any damages arising for up to six years as required by Irish law?

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

It's a waste of money compared to an approved box as it's not certified, isn't fully compatible and doesn't support Text /MHEG5/Interactive, which is much more important than the Teletext that is likely ending in end 2012.

It may not have a PSU (power unit) suitable for Ireland or pass EU or Irish Safety tests.

Sam has a more limited view because he is not a reputable retailer, a manufacturer or a Enginneer with suitable lab to properly test these and has sold similar ones. JRH pimps these so often one wonders if he has a connection with the vendor.

At this stage anyone should only buy a Saorview certified box, or possibly at worst a genuine certified UK "Freeview+ HD" PVR. (But generally only if they can pickup N.I. or Welsh Freeview). IMO as someone involved in helping Consumers with their Rights and Technology it's bordering on irresponsible to recommend these kind of cheap generic products that may not even meet Irish Electrical standards apart from never meeting Saorview Spec.

It is not a waste of money if it is purchased with prior knowlede. The price quoted is £26 delivered which is significantly less than €80 quoted for a Saorview box. It is required to work on an old CRT TV that is probably not worth a lot, but which works. Surely spending an extra €50 on a defunct TV would be the waste of money. Most of the PSU units that are supplied with this kind of product has a CE mark. Some have a 3 pin plug. [The ones I supplied had 3 pin plugs].

I take exception to your remarks that I am not reputable or that I am not an engineer.

You have never set eyes on a product like these, and yet you are full of opinions about them. I have no idea how good this particular sample is, but my experience of the ones I supplied has been exceptional. They are high quality, excellent PQ, and have been universally praised by those that purchased them. The insides are presumably all the same, but the software could differ.

Your preference for FreeviewHD products is ill conceived because they are not Saorview certified, or even compliant. There are a known number of faults with these boxes (that are not Saorview certified - some are) particularly with LCNs and summertime. You have more chance of a better experience with a generic box than a UK spec one.

I said that if price was an important criteria, then these boxes would be OK.

Any Certified Saorview box.
Such a box will also have CE mark and meet Irish Electrical safety standards and legally must be sold with a fused UK/Irish style 3pin plug, (or possibly compliant screw locked fitted fused adapter pre-fitted)

I have yet to see a charger for a mobile telephone with a fuse. In fact, most of these PSU type bricks are not equipped with a fuse. Now they may have a fuse internally, but I doubt it, and if they have, it becomes a throw away product if the fuse fails. Have a look at the one for your own mobile phone.

Your opinions on many things are very worthy, but at least look at the products before you condemn them.

watty

Sam Russell wrote: »

I take exception to your remarks that I am not reputable I][B]retailer [/B][/Ior that I am not an engineer [with a test lab].

I was referring also JRH. [Retailer and Test Lab my Emphasis]. If you are are reputable retailer and/or have a suitable test lab to verify Saorview and CE safety you would never have sold one of these.

I said that if price was an important criteria, then these boxes would be OK.

You'll support anyone that buys it for 2 years and up to six years for damages?

You can't say it's OK unless you are selling it and backing that up under Sale of Goods Act or it's certified. You are only guessing.

I have yet to see a charger for a mobile telephone with a fuse. In fact, most of these PSU type bricks are not equipped with a fuse. Now they may have a fuse internally, but I doubt it,

CE approved ones do have an internal fuse and a filter.
However samples purchased in O2 were found to have no fuse, no filtering, and didn't meet CE EMI specs on input or output, nor deliver rated current. Faked CE Mark, or design cost reduced after CE approval. Bad example. UK trading Standards has had to seize many PC PSUs.

The CE system is being abused and certainly in Ireland there is no proactive compliance testing. That's no excuse to encourage people to import gear directly that can't pass Saorview compliance tests. JRH is one of the biggest culprits missing no opportunity to punt these.

Generally any Phone or laptop PSU is not economically repairable if it blows the fuse. I've about 30 years experience (of and on) designing SMPSUs for Industrial and Telecom including "intrinsically safe" applications. I think I know a bit about PSUs.

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

I was referring to JRH. [Retailer my Emphasis]

OK, but you should not impune people reputations.

You'll support anyone that buys it for 2 years and up to six years for damages?

The purchaser is made aware of limitations - buyer beware.

You can't say it's OK unless you are selling it and backing that up under Sale of Goods Act or it's certified. You are only guessing.

No, you are quessing, as you have never seen such a product. Certification has not worked for Sony, if other posters are correct.

CE approved ones do have an internal fuse and a filter.
However samples purchased in O2 were found to have no fuse, no filtering, and didn't meet CE EMI specs on input or output, nor deliver rated current. Faked CE Mark, or design cost reduced after CE approval. Bad example. UK trading Standards has had to seize many PC PSUs.

The CE system is being abused and certainly in Ireland there is no proactive compliance testing.

Agreed, so what is new? For years, we had houses wired with UK 13 amp plugs and ringmain system fed back to German fuses, that had the wrong rating (25 amp instead of 30 amp).

That's no excuse to encourage people to import gear directly that can't pass Saorview compliance tests.

I imported stuff from China, but was careful to check it first and then specify it properly. Saorview compliance is just a spec check, not a safety check.

Generally any Phone or laptop PSU is not economically repairable if it blows the fuse.

There is no marking to say a fuse is internal to the PSU. Maybe there is one, but these are generic PSUs that are bought in by the box supplier and it is unlucky dip whether it a good or a bad unit. The bulk purchasers of these units are people like Sony, HP, Dell, Nokia, etc. The suppliers/manufacturers to those big names sell on to smaller manufacturers and in my experience are quite good quality, but it is a chance one takes.

watty

Really ... With what lab did you check the stuff?

Any Saorview product on sale in Ireland will have been properly CE certified and meet Irish safety standards too.

If I'm guessing I say so.

If there is no internal fuse on plugtop PSU, then the CE mark is a lie. Simple. I've taken many of these apart. Some use "pico" type fuses. Not replaceable cartridge fuses, because if the fuse goes it's scrap. The non-SMPU, using a real 50Hz transformer may often use an embedded thermal fuse in the middle of the windings, especially "wall wart" types with moulded pins part of case.

I've designed stuff and had it pass VDE, UL, CSA etc specs. I've worked in labs with the requisite test gear and had to read all the dreadful specs.

JRH

watty wrote: »

You are not a qualified Engineer, you don't have a lab, your sample size is too small. It's not a responsible option for an unqualified consumer to recommend. But then you won't have to refund anyone.

If you have no connection, then stop pushing this stuff. If you have a connection, then stop, because you would be breaking Boards' rules.

RTE NL and the RTE, TV3 and TG4 channels are not yet using all features of Saorview. We know already it doesn't work with MHEG5. Safety issues of PSU need longer time and more units to show up.

If you are going to recommend such a obviously incompatible with Saorview and Irish Plugs direct import will you stand over it and refund any damages arising for up to six years as required by Irish law?

Man .. you get obsessed with standards , regulation , certification :rolleyes:

Some folk just wanna watch TV ....

So to the OP , This gadget will get you the 6 irish channels for 26 euro shipped ... it will not get you future teletext , but if like me you dont care then you wont miss it ... take on board what Watty said also the opinion of people with actual experience of this device and decide for yourself what option suits your situation .

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Mini-DVB-T-Tr...item3a6de91b1a

Charlie-Bravo

I contribute to this thread but then have to read a load of uncertified product discussion - not ideal. I shoudn't back-seat mod, but this thread is done to death me thinks. IBTL.

FRIENDO

astrofluff wrote: »

There are a handful of saorview compliant boxes out there, and also a handful of non-compliant boxes - so if you're not interested in MHEG5 (teletext stuff) then you might get a cheap box.

Cheapest Saorview box in say Powercity is 60euro Universal Vision box

Because of the MPEG4 transmissions, get a Saorview approved box and not a Freeview box (MPEG2) to avoid making a mistake in purchasing. The freeview will more than likely not work!

I picked up the Saorview approved Vision Set top box on the 29/12. The powercity sales man gave it to me for 49.95 Euro as they had one advertisted on the web site on St Stephens day for this price.
I also got a 8gb USB key for under 10Euro.

Very impressed with the Vision box and can record up to 4 hours, very easy to use. (Good work Saorview and a great price for what appears to be a quality receiver) Very user friendly.:)

FRIENDO

JRH wrote: »

Man .. you get obsessed with standards , regulation , certification :rolleyes:

Some folk just wanna watch TV ....

The famous last words - Till a house gets destroyed by FIRE and SMOKE and I would hope that no harm would come to any member of the public.

The most important thing with standards, regulation and certification is public safety (Health and Safety).

JRH

FRIENDO wrote: »

The famous last words - Till a house gets destroyed by FIRE and SMOKE and I would hope that no harm would come to any member of the public.

The most important thing with standards, regulation and certification is public safety (Health and Safety).

You have apply some common sence ... its already in a low risk category as far as psu is concerned .... a little 5v unit drawing a few milliamps ... there are hundreds selling this and similar units on the internet ( the HD , SD , Mpeg2 + other versions ) troll through the thousands of buyer feedback ... dont you think someone would have mentioned their psu going up in flames if it was an issue ...
Anyway whats at the end of your ' universal vision ' box there .... chances are it has ' made in china ' on the psu :rolleyes:
Not everyone lives close to powercity , any 'saorview ' box i see in Galway is at least 70+ .... id perfer to pick up the Ferguson combo if i was paying that money ..
26 euro is enough for a terrestrial only box for use with an old or second TV

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Mini-DVB-T-Tr...item3a6de91b1a

FRIENDO

JRH wrote: »

You have apply some common sence ... its already in a low risk category as far as psu is concerned .... a little 5v unit drawing a few milliamps ... there are hundreds selling this and similar units on the internet ( the HD , SD , Mpeg2 + other versions ) troll through the thousands of buyer feedback ... dont you think someone would have mentioned their psu going up in flames if it was an issue ...
Anyway whats at the end of your ' universal vision ' box there .... chances are it has ' made in china ' on the psu :rolleyes:
Not everyone lives close to powercity , any 'saorview ' box i see in Galway is at least 70+ .... id perfer to pick up the Ferguson combo if i was paying that money ..
26 euro is enough for a terrestrial only box for use with an old or second TV

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Mini-DVB-T-Tr...item3a6de91b1a

I follow Standards, Regulation and Certification.

I heard of a builder in the past saying he used common sence - taking short cuts on standards, Regulations and Certification (He got a custodial sentence)

Why take a chance that could lead to tragedy ? It can so easily be avoided.
I'm sure you can also find plenty of stories about bad electrics on the market causing plenty of problems and harm.

The plug at the end of the Saorview Vision approved box is made in China with the CE mark

.http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/policies/single-market-goods/cemarking/downloads/further_information_en.pdf

I already have a HD Combo and in my opinion its a poor substiute for a Saorview box for recieving saorview (No Mheg 5, unfriendly control, not as user friendly - My Father was unable to use the combo, since I have got him a Saorview box and he uses his old FTA box for satellite, no problems).

ps. I think Powercity also offer online shopping.

FRIENDO

One death caused by faulty electrical goods is one death to much.

Never buy from someone or an organisation you don't trust.

http://www.voltimum.ie/news/8207/s/BEAMA-Installation-President-warns-against-counterfeit-goods.html

JRH

FRIENDO wrote: »

I follow Standards, Regulation and Certification.

I heard of a builder in the past saying he used common sence - taking short cuts on standards, Regulations and Certification (He got a custodial sentence)

Why take a chance that could lead to tragedy ? It can so easily be avoided.
I'm sure you can also find plenty of stories about bad electrics on the market causing plenty of problems and harm.

The plug at the end of the Saorview Vision approved box is made in China with the CE mark

.http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/policies/single-market-goods/cemarking/downloads/further_information_en.pdf

I already have a HD Combo and in my opinion its a poor substiute for a Saorview box for recieving saorview (No Mheg 5, unfriendly control, not as user friendly - My Father was unable to use the combo, since I have got him a Saorview box and he uses his old FTA box for satellite, no problems).

ps. I think Powercity also offer online shopping.

The item im talking about also has the CE mark ... but of coarse some here will claim that to be fake while your chinese marked CE approved psu is real :rolleyes:...

again i refer to the thousands of feedback on e-bay for this item and no mention of electrical problems ...

Power city box is 65 posted ... not saying dont buy it just offering an alternative for 26 posted

I can not fathom how your father would find it easier to use two /three remotes , two boxs insted of the Combo ... my own father is 80 , i set up an Edison combo for him ... he presses ' 1' for rte1 and takes it from there he would be lost juggling remotes ... how could it easier with two boxes , but perhaps yours is used to his sat box .. also setup a ferguson combo for an elderly aunt ... no issues

FRIENDO

Some great tips I read from the voltium site.

NEVER handle products that you know, or suspect, are counterfeit.
Only buy from people and organisations you trust (the new Electrical Installation Industry Charter will help identify reliable organisations).
Check the packaging and labelling for any alterations.
Check for 'CE' and other relevant certification marks.
Check that the price is in line with what you would normally expect to pay - if in doubt, contact the brand owner.
"Our appeal to specifiers, distributors and installers is 'Don't kill your customers'."


And yes if any counterfeit products have the CE mark - this is Fraudulent.

JRH

FRIENDO wrote: »

Some great tips I read from the voltium site.

NEVER handle products that you know, or suspect, are counterfeit.
Only buy from people and organisations you trust (the new Electrical Installation Industry Charter will help identify reliable organisations).
Check the packaging and labelling for any alterations.
Check for 'CE' and other relevant certification marks.
Check that the price is in line with what you would normally expect to pay - if in doubt, contact the brand owner.
"Our appeal to specifiers, distributors and installers is 'Don't kill your customers'."


And yes if any counterfeit products have the CE mark - this is Fraudulent.

Irrelevant in this case ... there is no counterfeit product :rolleyes:

Sam Russell

The CE mark is carried on the PSU that I supplied and I am certain that it is not counterfeit. We are not talking about high power here, with a rated output of 10 watts for just 8 watts consumption, with less that 1 watt on standby. It is a switched mode psu so it does not consume anything much on its own account.

I bought more than one unit and had the chance to verify what I was buying, but if someone is only buying one unit, that is clearly not possible for them. However, if the postser wants to take a chance, that is surely up to them to decide. I have bought from local suppliers and would have more doubts about the kit than that sourced directly from Chinese suppliers.

Fakes are fakes, and are just as likely to be sold in Dublin as in Hong Kong. People in legitimate business do not knowingly sell such products, but if you want fakes, they are easy to source.

The difference between certified Saorview products and generic decoders are that the certified box manufacturer had to stump up €20,000 for the priveledge, and the product can be upgraded over the air by RTE NL to solve those problems that the certification missed. Non-certified products range from expensive FreeviewHD products favoured by some posters to cheap Chinese STBs that do not have MHEG5. Some certified products are reported to have problems, but presumably will be fixed in the fullness of time. Many features have yet to be implemented, so we have more fun to come.

Overall, you pays your money and you makes your choice, but buyer beware.

FRIENDO

@JRH

On reading the advert in your previous post

Q. Does this mean that you could get a package with no accompanied manufacturer labelling or details ?

A brand-new, unused, unopened and undamaged item in original retail packaging (where packaging is applicable). If the item comes direct from a manufacturer, it may be delivered in non-retail packaging, such as a plain or unprinted box or plastic bag. See the seller's listing for full details.

JRH

FRIENDO wrote: »

@JRH

On reading the advert in your previous post

Q. Does this mean that you could get a package with no accompanied manufacturer labelling or details ?

A brand-new, unused, unopened and undamaged item in original retail packaging (where packaging is applicable). If the item comes direct from a manufacturer, it may be delivered in non-retail packaging, such as a plain or unprinted box or plastic bag. See the seller's listing for full details.

To me thats cutting out the middleman ... if you want the exact one with retail packaging and the additional price ... here you go :rolleyes:

http://www.dipol.ie/tv-sat-tv/dvb-t-receivers-1/dvb-t-receiver-signal-hd-507-mpeg-2-4-pvr-ready.html

It still comes with a manual etc ... its made by one the shenzhen electronic companies ...

watty

The power supply included in that advert is illegal to sell retail in Ireland and UK. If the CE mark is real, that product is only valid in the EU countries that use that connector.

Unlike a plug on a cord, that plug can't be enclosed in a fused UK/Ireland plug. BTW the fuse in a UK/Ireland plug is NOTHING to do with the appliance. It's to ensure the flex is safe as it might be a 5A flex and not a 20A flex. On a spur the socket is fed from a 20A fuse/trip and on UK style "ring main" an even higher value.

The equipment itself has to have a fuse rated much lower internally to blow if the equipment is faulty. These are often not user replaceable as the PSUs are not ever user repairable and hardly ever economically repairable.

For safety on 13A UK/Irish sockets you need to recycle that PSU and get one with correct pins.

It's got NOTHING to do with the output current and voltage. JRH obviously knows nothing about PSU design or Safety. I recommend that no-one take any of JRH's recommendations as he obviously has no technical knowledge or understanding of Mains Safety issues.

Yes. There are products on sale in Ireland with fake CE marks, or wrong plug. That doesn't make it right to import such direct simply to save money.

Never recommend Mains powered equipment not specifically for the UK/Irish market, i.e. it legally has to be supplied with the correct plug on it already.

Never recommend equipment known to be incompatible with Irish Broadcast standards, Irish Mains outlets, safety standards or other regulations and standards. It's simply irresponsible.

watty

Sam Russell wrote: »

The CE mark is carried on the PSU that I supplied and I am certain that it is not counterfeit. We are not talking about high power here, with a rated output of 10 watts for just 8 watts consumption, with less that 1 watt on standby. It is a switched mode psu so it does not consume anything much on its own account.

All irrelevant. I know because I design SMPSUs. The power and output voltage is virtually irrelevant to the safety. Actually some of the phone chargers are more dangerous than 450W PC SMPSUs.

I believe yours had a UK/Irish plug?

Did you measure:
The Radio interference generated?
Test isolation according to the standards between Mains pins and output pins?
Verify what happens with continuous short on the output?

The issues with a Mains driven SMPSU are:
Isolation safety. Are Insulation voltages and distances correct between live and isolated parts. The test is not mains, but several thousand volts (exact voltage varies on Country and Application). Even SMPSU have a transformer that has one winding essentially live mains and the other basically in connection with the output. There must be an insulation barrier between the windings.
Safety of fuse if on a cord. (UK/Ireland, not Shuko countries), plug fuse must be less than cord rating.
Also an Internal fuse no matter if on a cord or direct pins.
Is unit safe if output shorted? It doesn't have to survive test but temperature of case must not exceed limits, it must not go on fire and voltage isolation must not fail (i.e. secondary/primary short due to overheating).

RFI/EMI. It's impossible to have a SMPSU that meets limits without filtering on the input and output without involving extra coils. One capacitor won't do it.

MiCr0

To be very clear, no posting advise or suggestions on equipment that is no certified for Ireland.
This is my only warning

Mike 1972

If one shops around one can pick up a Saorview approved STB for €50 (possibly less) or if one wants to go the Freeview HD route £30 Sterling.

Dunno where people are getting these €80 figures from.

BTW out of interest is there any limit in the CE specs (or elsewhere) regarding the size/weight/dimensions of PSU units which can be inserted directly into a BS1363 socket ? If anything the CE specs are not stringent enough given the number of times Ive encountered things like laptop chargers units with both output legs floating at around half mains potential to say nothing of TV sets with voltages on aerial sockets, SCART ports etc :eek:

Im not a big fan of this trend towards external PSU's (except where unavoidable e.g. mobile phones) for various reasons but Ive seen some devices where the PSU's have been so large and/or heavy that Ive quetioned the wisdom of having them plugged in for any length of time lest they wear/damage the socket etc.

JRH

watty wrote: »

The power supply included in that advert is illegal to sell retail in Ireland and UK. If the CE mark is real, that product is only valid in the EU countries that use that connector.

Unlike a plug on a cord, that plug can't be enclosed in a fused UK/Ireland plug. BTW the fuse in a UK/Ireland plug is NOTHING to do with the appliance. It's to ensure the flex is safe as it might be a 5A flex and not a 20A flex. On a spur the socket is fed from a 20A fuse/trip and on UK style "ring main" an even higher value.

The equipment itself has to have a fuse rated much lower internally to blow if the equipment is faulty. These are often not user replaceable as the PSUs are not ever user repairable and hardly ever economically repairable.

For safety on 13A UK/Irish sockets you need to recycle that PSU and get one with correct pins.

It's got NOTHING to do with the output current and voltage. JRH obviously knows nothing about PSU design or Safety. I recommend that no-one take any of JRH's recommendations as he obviously has no technical knowledge or understanding of Mains Safety issues.

Yes. There are products on sale in Ireland with fake CE marks, or wrong plug. That doesn't make it right to import such direct simply to save money.

Never recommend Mains powered equipment not specifically for the UK/Irish market, i.e. it legally has to be supplied with the correct plug on it already.

Never recommend equipment known to be incompatible with Irish Broadcast standards, Irish Mains outlets, safety standards or other regulations and standards. It's simply irresponsible.

lol ... watty has ... and no doubt will continue to focus on the PSU as a distraction , because he cant fault the terrestial receiver i mentioned available for 26 euro shipped . :rolleyes:

The PSU included with the item i mentioned is CE marked and so fully conforms with EU standards .
Two pin plugs on PSU are very common in Ireland, as you mention yourself thousands of phone chargers are on sale in Ireland ... these are two pin plugs ... the ' earth ' pin is plastic ... people do not generally use fused adapters with their phone chargers .
Anyone using the most popular electrical online stores in europe EG Thomann ... Komplett ... will occasionally get two pin PSU ... fused adapters are available if desired .
Whatever about the legal technical issues regarding the sale of two pin items , it is hardly illegal to use them , otherwise every second shop would not be selling adaptors of hotels supplying them to guests.
Wattys concerns about PSU safety design in general is well intentioned im sure but needs to seen in a general context instead of focused on this one CE compliant item , which i might add has thousands of feedback on e-bay without any mention of electrical issues .

watty

The PSU's CE mark, if real, isn't valid for UK & Ireland unless it has a UK/Ireland plug. That is a serious safety issue.

The receiver simply doesn't work properly here. That's not a safety issue.

You really are not getting this. How commonly other people are breaking the law isn't relevant. Also a European mainland two pin plug is NOT remotely the same as UK/Ireland plug with an un-used Insulated earth pin. That just shows your total ignorance of the issues involved.

I conclude that you are either really a troll or making money from these.

eBay Feedback is NOT a measure of Safety or Broadcast standards compliance. In fact most eBay feedback is not after months of use, but on the day or week the item was received.

Consumers have no facilities for Broadcast compatibility testing or safety testing.

JRH

watty wrote: »

The PSU's CE mark, if real, isn't valid for UK & Ireland unless it has a UK/Ireland plug. That is a serious safety issue.

The receiver simply doesn't work properly here. That's not a safety issue.

You really are not getting this. How commonly other people are breaking the law isn't relevant. Also a European mainland two pin plug is NOT remotely the same as UK/Ireland plug with an un-used Insulated earth pin. That just shows your total ignorance of the issues involved.

I conclude that you are either really a troll or making money from these.

eBay Feedback is NOT a measure of Safety or Broadcast standards compliance. In fact most eBay feedback is not after months of use, but on the day or week the item was received.

Consumers have no facilities for Broadcast compatibility testing or safety testing.

What ever issues may or may not apply to this PSU apply to the thousands of phone chargers for sale in ireland .

The receiver works extremely well at receiving the Irish DTT channels ...
And so i believe it it valid for me to mention it as an option ....
This is a ' terrestrial TV forum ' not a ' Saorview ' forum as far as i can see

Im not trolling anymore than you are :rolleyes:
and i certainly have not mentioned this item more times than you have mentioned specific ' saorview approved ' items .
And im not here every day ...

Iv mentioned this item on only about three / four threads and only where i thought it may be relevant to the OP .... ' cheap box ' 'older set '

As i said before i got two of these from China for 26 euro each and gave them to friends who are thrilled with them ...

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

All irrelevant. I know because I design SMPSUs. The power and output voltage is virtually irrelevant to the safety. Actually some of the phone chargers are more dangerous than 450W PC SMPSUs.

I believe yours had a UK/Irish plug?

Did you measure:
The Radio interference generated?
Test isolation according to the standards between Mains pins and output pins?
Verify what happens with continuous short on the output?

The issues with a Mains driven SMPSU are:
Isolation safety. Are Insulation voltages and distances correct between live and isolated parts. The test is not mains, but several thousand volts (exact voltage varies on Country and Application). Even SMPSU have a transformer that has one winding essentially live mains and the other basically in connection with the output. There must be an insulation barrier between the windings.
Safety of fuse if on a cord. (UK/Ireland, not Shuko countries), plug fuse must be less than cord rating.
Also an Internal fuse no matter if on a cord or direct pins.
Is unit safe if output shorted? It doesn't have to survive test but temperature of case must not exceed limits, it must not go on fire and voltage isolation must not fail (i.e. secondary/primary short due to overheating).

RFI/EMI. It's impossible to have a SMPSU that meets limits without filtering on the input and output without involving extra coils. One capacitor won't do it.

@Watty - This is a ridiculous line from you. You have never set eyes on the product I supplied and so know nothing about it. I made sure the PSU was CE certified and had a 3 pin plug. Do you do hi-pot testing on all your purchases or do you trust the CE mark? The product I supplied is legitimate, with a CE mark, as is my television, my phone charger, and the one for my camera. This rant of yours about PSUs has no relevance or place on a TV thread (unless you are certain about the facts concerning the fake nature of a particular product).

The whole product I supplied was well made using SMT, works perfectly as designed, has superior picture quality to the Ariva 120 box (which is not Saorview certified either) and I have had no complaints against the product, only complete satisfaction and even dismay from people who wanted more units. The product linked to on ebay would appear to be a simillar product and should perform well, however software will differ and the remote may well be different. I have no personal knowledge of it though.

What is your issue with this particular product that does not apply equally to the Ariva 120, or the FreeviewHD products that you regularly recommend (few, if any, are Saorview approved)? Saorview certification has its place, but non-certified products have theirs. What do you do if you want to receive both UK and Saorview signals - since the signals are to different, incompatible, specs? I]Clearly it is possible to get both certifications but not many products bother[/I.I do not recommend any particular product personally and refrain from complaining about products I know nothing about. I think it is up to the buyer, and buyers of non-certified products need to be aware of that fact, and if so, no harm is done.

watty

I'm not selling any product. If I was, I would want traceable certification.

Sam, I had assumed yours, unlike the stuff JRH links to (He can't see difference between UK/Irish plug with two pins in use and the bi-pin mainland Europe plugs), had the proper UK/Irish plug.

I've indicated the issues with the Humax Freeview HD and it doesn't come with a 2 pin Euro plug but a UK plug. I've only ever suggested it (and not from a Chinese eBay seller) as possible stopgap PVR solution and that it's best suited for those that get Freeview and later Freeview HD. Unlike "random" Chinese eBay stuff on mains, ALL UK sourced "Freeview HD" gear is at least meant to meet UK/Irish Mains standards. If not, it's easily returned. Also UK "Freeview HD" does support MHEG5. However I've never suggested that it's a better idea than Saorview, except for areas that can receive "Freeview". There is no merit at all in non-"Freeview HD", especially from China without UK/Irish mains plug.

I've regularly criticised the combos as actually being neither compatible with Freesat or Saorview, and I've said since most of the channels are on Freesat that a true "Freesat HD" box is far more sensible.

I did review a DTT stick. It doesn't connect to mains, and the compatibly depends entirely on the PC software used.

www.saortv.info outlines my viewpoint.

How many of my posts compared to JRH promote ANY product?

How many of my posts compared to JRH have an eBay link?

In fact there was a recent Maplin thread where I told people to look themselves and I specifically refused to give any eBay links.

I run 7 Tech websites and a major contributor on an 8th. Not one has any adverts.
What Products does Techír www.techtir.ie promote more than a "one of review" less sycophantic than any tech blog?
What Products does www.saortv.info promote more than a mention (it lists a number you shouldn't buy).

On those sites and here on Boards (inc Broadband, Consumer and Currys threads) I have put 1000's of words and hours into trying educate consumers and protect consumers. I and a Student surveyed EVERY shop selling TVs and Setboxes in Limerick City area leading up to before the May 2011 Launch.

I have written to Advertising standards, NCA and Data Commissioner. I have met Ministers and argued with them face to face. I've met Senior Eircom Executives. I've argued with RTE executives.

I've put huge time and effort into the area of TVs, Setboxes, Digital Switch over, Ireland Offline (Broadband), ISAA (Standards of Installs), Broadcast content and quality etc.

What has JRH done for the Irish Consumer?
What have you done for the Irish Consumer?

I resigned from Moderating various forums on Boards over the issue of Ethics.

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

I'm not selling any product. If I was, I would want traceable certification.

Sam, I had assumed yours, unlike the stuff JRH links to (He can't see difference between UK/Irish plug with two pins in use and the bi-pin mainland Europe plugs), had the proper UK/Irish plug.

I've indicated the issues with the Humax Freeview HD and it doesn't come with a 2 pin Euro plug but a UK plug. I've only ever suggested it (and not from a Chinese eBay seller) as possible stopgap PVR solution and that it's best suited for those that get Freeview and later Freeview HD. Unlike "random" Chinese eBay stuff on mains, ALL UK sourced "Freeview HD" gear is at least meant to meet UK/Irish Mains standards. If not, it's easily returned. Also UK "Freeview HD" does support MHEG5. However I've never suggested that it's a better idea than Saorview, except for areas that can receive "Freeview". There is no merit at all in non-"Freeview HD", especially from China without UK/Irish mains plug.

I've regularly criticised the combos as actually being neither compatible with Freesat or Saorview, and I've said since most of the channels are on Freesat that a true "Freesat HD" box is far more sensible.

I did review a DTT stick. It doesn't connect to mains, and the compatibly depends entirely on the PC software used.

www.saortv.info outlines my viewpoint.

How many of my posts compared to JRH promote ANY product?

How many of my posts compared to JRH have an eBay link?

In fact there was a recent Maplin thread where I told people to look themselves and I specifically refused to give any eBay links.

I run 7 Tech websites and a major contributor on an 8th. Not one has any adverts.
What Products does Techír www.techtir.ie promote more than a "one of review" less sycophantic than any tech blog?
What Products does www.saortv.info promote more than a mention (it lists a number you shouldn't buy).

On those sites and here on Boards (inc Broadband, Consumer and Currys threads) I have put 1000's of words and hours into trying educate consumers and protect consumers. I and a Student surveyed EVERY shop selling TVs and Setboxes in Limerick City area leading up to before the May 2011 Launch.

I have written to Advertising standards, NCA and Data Commissioner. I have met Ministers and argued with them face to face. I've met Senior Eircom Executives. I've argued with RTE executives.

I've put huge time and effort into the area of TVs, Setboxes, Digital Switch over, Ireland Offline (Broadband), ISAA (Standards of Installs), Broadcast content and quality etc.

What has JRH done for the Irish Consumer?
What have you done for the Irish Consumer?

I resigned from Moderating various forums on Boards over the issue of Ethics.

Look, I do not sell anything either. I only imported product for my own use and some friends. In order to get a better deal, I bought extra and sold them at a very small profit. My main reason was the total lack of suitable MPEG4 HD product, and to combat the sale of non-MPEG4 sets by the foreign retailers. I never represented my product as anything other than it was, and I said I would stop selling it as soon as the Saorview products became available at a reasonable price. That I have done.

I made certain that the unit I sold was as close to standard as was possible, but MHEG5 was not available to me because of the attitude of the chip manufacturer. If I was buying in the thousands (possibly tens of thousands) I might have got somewhere. All of the purchasers who got the boxes were delighted and are satisfied. I even sold some into the UK (I still do not understand why, but I was paid, and even had a repeat order so that person had no complaint!).

I still have no idea with your fixation with the PSU. I would be more concerned with people being ripped off with dud product, or product not arriving. If a PSU looks dodgy, it is easy to buy a local one that does the same job but returning product to China is not worth the trouble.

Edit: This has been going on too long so I will not be replying any more. All that is worth saying has been said, and much that has not been worth saying as well.

JRH

watty wrote: »

I'm not selling any product. If I was, I would want traceable certification.

Sam, I had assumed yours, unlike the stuff JRH links to (He can't see difference between UK/Irish plug with two pins in use and the bi-pin mainland Europe plugs), had the proper UK/Irish plug.

I've indicated the issues with the Humax Freeview HD and it doesn't come with a 2 pin Euro plug but a UK plug. I've only ever suggested it (and not from a Chinese eBay seller) as possible stopgap PVR solution and that it's best suited for those that get Freeview and later Freeview HD. Unlike "random" Chinese eBay stuff on mains, ALL UK sourced "Freeview HD" gear is at least meant to meet UK/Irish Mains standards. If not, it's easily returned. Also UK "Freeview HD" does support MHEG5. However I've never suggested that it's a better idea than Saorview, except for areas that can receive "Freeview". There is no merit at all in non-"Freeview HD", especially from China without UK/Irish mains plug.

I've regularly criticised the combos as actually being neither compatible with Freesat or Saorview, and I've said since most of the channels are on Freesat that a true "Freesat HD" box is far more sensible.

I did review a DTT stick. It doesn't connect to mains, and the compatibly depends entirely on the PC software used.

www.saortv.info outlines my viewpoint.

How many of my posts compared to JRH promote ANY product?

How many of my posts compared to JRH have an eBay link?

In fact there was a recent Maplin thread where I told people to look themselves and I specifically refused to give any eBay links.

I run 7 Tech websites and a major contributor on an 8th. Not one has any adverts.
What Products does Techír www.techtir.ie promote more than a "one of review" less sycophantic than any tech blog?
What Products does www.saortv.info promote more than a mention (it lists a number you shouldn't buy).

On those sites and here on Boards (inc Broadband, Consumer and Currys threads) I have put 1000's of words and hours into trying educate consumers and protect consumers. I and a Student surveyed EVERY shop selling TVs and Setboxes in Limerick City area leading up to before the May 2011 Launch.

I have written to Advertising standards, NCA and Data Commissioner. I have met Ministers and argued with them face to face. I've met Senior Eircom Executives. I've argued with RTE executives.

I've put huge time and effort into the area of TVs, Setboxes, Digital Switch over, Ireland Offline (Broadband), ISAA (Standards of Installs), Broadcast content and quality etc.

What has JRH done for the Irish Consumer?
What have you done for the Irish Consumer?

I resigned from Moderating various forums on Boards over the issue of Ethics.

Don't know what it is you think i dont understand , but im sure i do , your a little vague on specifics , but i guess all issues are theoretical unless
you've tested the specific item :rolleyes:

I simply shared my experience of an item i've tried myself and found to work well .
All the Irish DTT channels for 26 euro shipped might be of interest to some board members , where as others might prefer additionals features in an expensive approved STB .

Respect to your hobby and the amount of time you spend on it

watty

It's not €26 as the PSU on the one your linked has a euro 2 pin plug and they need to buy a new PSU.
Also that is over the €20 customs limit so add €6 An Post and 23% VAT, Real possible cost €38 to €50* for something grossly inferior to a proper set-box that works completely in Ireland.
Also it doesn't receive everything. It's actually incompatible with UK or Irish Broadcast standards.

You are yet again recommending something BAD for the ordinary consumer. Plugging it in and getting a picture isn't proof of working well.

(*Assuming a properly filtered safte PSU with UK/Irish plug can be obtained for €12, likely more).

MiCr0

I'm closing this thread.