whistleblowers to save 20million+

Hoffmans

http://www.herald.ie/news/a-record-16000-tipoffs-received-on-welfare-cheats-2973861.html

i found it hard to know whats up with people when they spend their time canoodling in other peoples affairs and business ,
that is until i heard a shocker today from a lady who found a purse dropped in the local supermarket, after she contacted the store manager to hand it in she was asked to witness him opening it to find the owner just so he couldnt be accused later of tampering ...etc , to cut to the chase when he opened it he did not just find the owners id but 16 other social id cards with the same womans picture under different names
, im estimating around 3200€ in payments per week nice for some..........

Seth Brundle

Hoffmans wrote: »

i found it hard to know whats up with people when they spend their time canoodling in other peoples affairs and business ,
that is until i heard a shocker today from a lady who found a purse dropped in the local supermarket, after she contacted the store manager to hand it in she was asked to witness him opening it to find the owner just so he couldnt be accused later of tampering ...etc , to cut to the chase when he opened it he did not just find the owners id but 16 other social id cards with the same womans picture under different names
, im estimating around 3200€ in payments per week nice for some..........

Is there any evidence of this particular anecdote reported within the media?

barneystinson

Hoffmans wrote: »

http://www.herald.ie/news/a-record-16000-tipoffs-received-on-welfare-cheats-2973861.html

i found it hard to know whats up with people when they spend their time canoodling in other peoples affairs and business ,
that is until i heard a shocker today from a lady who found a purse dropped in the local supermarket, after she contacted the store manager to hand it in she was asked to witness him opening it to find the owner just so he couldnt be accused later of tampering ...etc , to cut to the chase when he opened it he did not just find the owners id but 16 other social id cards with the same womans picture under different names
, im estimating around 3200€ in payments per week nice for some..........

I found it hard to understand what exactly your point here is...

For starters I don't think canoodling is the word you meant to use, or if it is then you just don't understand what it means! (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/canoodle:
ca·noo·dle   [kuh-nood-l] verb (used with object), verb (used without object), -dled, -dling. Slang . caress, fondle, or pet amorously.)

You appear to be saying that you used to disapprove of people reporting the crime of Social Welfare fraud, but since you heard the story of the person with 16 cards, you've now changed your mind...?

Which begs the question, at what point does it become acceptable to report someone, in your view? You appear to think that if someone has one fraudulent claim, then reporting them is "canoodling", but if they've got 16 fraudulent claims, well that's just taking the p1ss, so reporting them is OK..?

Gonzor

Hoffmans wrote: »

to cut to the chase when he opened it he did not just find the owners id but 16 other social id cards with the same womans picture under different names

If the dole card is what Im thinking it is... then it doesnt have the persons photographs? Its just a name and a number. Maybe Im thinking of the wrong thing

Hoffmans

correction 16 sw cards with different names ,aah she could have been minding them for her friends ,when they were home in africa on holidays....:rolleyes:
on the other hand,
a local handy man or chap with a van providing a cheap local service to feed their family & stay above water would hopefully not draw the scorn of the wannabe private i's and quidnunc's...........

throw that in your dictionary barney and eat it............:pac:

Delancey

By announcing this huge surge in reports of SW fraud the Government achieve a couple of things , firstly they pander to the nasty side of Irish Society which seeks to label all those in receipt of unemployment benefit as scroungers , fraudsters , lazy , etc.
This announcement will be welcomed by a certain group of posters on this forum who whether for reasons of political correctness or other constraints don't blame women , immigrants , etc for the woes of the country but target the unemployed instead - handy ( or cowardly ) to attack a group that nobody seems prepared to speak up for.

Secondly , the Government will convey the impression that cutting Social Welfare fraud will have a huge benefit to the national finances when the fact is that any savings generated will be a drop in the ocean , these savings will look particularly paltry when compared to the savings that could be obtained from , for example , cutting Public Sector pensions by 10%.

The economist David McWilliams wrote several years ago that immigrants would be the target of anger as they would be blamed ( however wrongly ) for the country's problems , especially unemployment.
Time has proved McWilliams wrong , a certain section of society has turned its anger on a less-priveliged group , not immigrants but rather the unemployed.

Constant stories about SW fraud feed this despicable attitude.

mikemac1

It's money, it's real

Maybe people, well me anyway find it difficult to comprehend what seventy billion is.
When you keep hearing of billions and billions the numbers just wash over me

But I know what the dole is, what it can buy and what a neighbour is up to

I'm not sure if that makes sense

waitingforBB

Thats a strange post from a moderator..

So what if reducing social welfare fraud is a drop in the ocean. Shouldnt it be targated? Perhaps its not the bottom line headliner that cutting PS pensions (or salaries) might produce, but its fraud and we are paying for it.

I think most of us are mature enough not to blame or target the genuine recipients of SW for the nations woes. However if there is fraud there it should be stamped out (as well as the other injustices in society).

The point here is not about cutting the SW bill (is needed anyway) but about cutting the amount that is paid to fraudulant claimants.

Should this not be done? I certainly would rather my tax euros go to where its needed.

Cant believe you think that stories about SW welfare fraud arent in the public interest

Delancey

waitingforBB wrote: »

Thats a strange post from a moderator..

So what if reducing social welfare fraud is a drop in the ocean. Shouldnt it be targated? Perhaps its not the bottom line headliner that cutting PS pensions (or salaries) might produce, but its fraud and we are paying for it.

I think most of us are mature enough not to blame or target the genuine recipients of SW for the nations woes. However if there is fraud there it should be stamped out (as well as the other injustices in society).

The point here is not about cutting the SW bill (is needed anyway) but about cutting the amount that is paid to fraudulant claimants.

Should this not be done? I certainly would rather my tax euros go to where its needed.

Cant believe you think that stories about SW welfare fraud arent in the public interest

You'll note I am not a moderator here - on this forum I'm just another poster subject to the same rules as everyone else.

I certainly would agree that SW fraud should be tackled . I do believe however that its impact on Government spending is exaggerated and the frequency with which the media runs these stories feeds a very negative perception of the unemployed.

I have seem some shocking comments on various Boards.ie forums ( or is that fora ? ) regarding the unemployed and those on SW benefits , not suggesting that these views are shared by all.

waitingforBB

Fair enough. Your name appears with 'moderator' in bold beside your posts.

The impact is small, but nonetheless should be addressed.
If its frequently addressed, all the better.

I dont see how this negatively impunes on genuine recipients.

And if the paybill of the genuine recipients needs to be looked at then so be it.

Like public sector pay, it needs to be sorted. There are no more sacred cows

jmayo

Delancey wrote: »

By announcing this huge surge in reports of SW fraud the Government achieve a couple of things , firstly they pander to the nasty side of Irish Society which seeks to label all those in receipt of unemployment benefit as scroungers , fraudsters , lazy , etc.
This announcement will be welcomed by a certain group of posters on this forum who whether for reasons of political correctness or other constraints don't blame women , immigrants , etc for the woes of the country but target the unemployed instead - handy ( or cowardly ) to attack a group that nobody seems prepared to speak up for.

So do you think we should blame women or immigrants for our woes ?
I just find your argument really strange.
I just hope it is due to the time of night and amont of alcohol consumed ?

Oh and BTW I would be one of those posters who does find a section of our long term unemployed (i.e. the ones who never had a job) to be scroungers and lazy.

Delancey wrote: »

Secondly , the Government will convey the impression that cutting Social Welfare fraud will have a huge benefit to the national finances when the fact is that any savings generated will be a drop in the ocean , these savings will look particularly paltry when compared to the savings that could be obtained from , for example , cutting Public Sector pensions by 10%.

Now I do agree with this, but that still doesn't mean we should not clamb down on SW fraud and also should not report it in the media.

Delancey wrote: »

The economist David McWilliams wrote several years ago that immigrants would be the target of anger as they would be blamed ( however wrongly ) for the country's problems , especially unemployment.
Time has proved McWilliams wrong , a certain section of society has turned its anger on a less-priveliged group , not immigrants but rather the unemployed.

Constant stories about SW fraud feed this despicable attitude.

So we should not mention SW fraud so ?
So where do you stand on SW fraud ?

I find it interesting that the mod of a forum on police recruitment does not want instances of crime reported in the media. :rolleyes:

Fluffybums

What a shame there is no protection for whistleblowers in industry and the public sector.

coolshannagh28

There is a fair bit of social welfare fraud out and very easy to spot so I cant really understand why the department of social protection ,aptly retitled,in this regard ,cannot deal with it without the whistleblowers.
However the social welfare spend generally goes straight into the local domestic economy so I regard it as the only tiny bit of stimulus to the ecomomy at the minute and I would say the government have a benign view of it as well .
Whistle blowing is distasteful ,definately something I would never do in any circumstance however tempted live and let live

noxqs

Defrauding the state for SW should carry a minimum prison sentence and a steep fine and an anonymous cash reward to those who give the tip-of.

This isnt anonymously stealing from "The Man". This is defrauding all of us. Theyre nothing but scumbag criminals.

jmayo

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

...
Whistle blowing is distasteful ,definately something I would never do in any circumstance however tempted live and let live

Why do you find whistleblowing distasteful ?

Do you think for instance the famous American whistleblowers such as Daniel Ellsberg whose release of the Pentagon papers helped end US involvement in Vietnam war or Jeffrey S. Wigand whose whistleblowing on a cigarette company helped highlight how they manipulated the ingredients to hook consumers was wrong ?
You know the guy that Russel Crowe played in the film The Insider.

Or what about our homegrown ones like Eugene McErlean who highlighted fact his employer AIB was overcharging its customers.
Was he wrong in your eyes.

Or whatabout the nurse who highlighted the awful mistreatment of women being carried out by in particular one doctor in Our Lady of Lourdes hospital in Drogheda.

It would be marvellous world altogether if everyone adopted your attitude wouldn't it. :rolleyes:

Ever heard the saying "all it takes for evil to triump is for good men to stand idily by" ?

coolshannagh28

There is a bit of a difference between whistleblowing on matters of national importance and touting up your neighbour through petty jealousy ,I accept your point ,just in the community I was brought up in it wasnt an option, remember social cohesion is important too.

Icepick

noxqs wrote: »

Defrauding the state for SW should carry a minimum prison sentence

This would just cost us more money.

Hoffmans

Icepick wrote: »

noxqs wrote: »

Defrauding the state for SW should carry a minimum prison sentence

This would just cost us more money.

and the human cost too, a real obnoxqs statement to make imo..

this statistic whistleblowing crap is carefully spun into the media to try and sway public opinion into somehow thinking its PC , just like the failed attempt with the tv licence adds campaign only the conditioned would be hoodwinked
least we remember of the 67 billion borrowed 61 of it is for banks , the guy painting his neighbours fence for cash is merely irrelevant in that context....
.

woodoo

noxqs wrote: »

Defrauding the state for SW should carry a minimum prison sentence and a steep fine.

I agree with the above.

People need to fear gettig caught and then the average person will not get involved with defrauding the state.

kraggy

noxqs wrote: »

Defrauding the state for SW should carry a minimum prison sentence and a steep fine and an anonymous cash reward to those who give the tip-of.

This isnt anonymously stealing from "The Man". This is defrauding all of us. Theyre nothing but scumbag criminals.

That would cost too much. It costs 100k to keep someone in prison for a year. Defeats the purpose.

Best thing to do is tell people that if you're caught defrauding/claiming when you shouldn't be, you'll never get Social Welfare assistance again. Ever.

Delancey

jmayo wrote: »

So do you think we should blame women or immigrants for our woes ?
I just find your argument really strange.
I just hope it is due to the time of night and amont of alcohol consumed ?



So we should not mention SW fraud so ?
So where do you stand on SW fraud ?

I find it interesting that the mod of a forum on police recruitment does not want instances of crime reported in the media. :rolleyes:

My moderator position has zero bearing on what I post in other forums and I think it poor form that you mention it at all , be assured that while I agree my post was made late I was completely sober

SW fraud is a crime and should be viewed as such - I have no issue with that.
My point is that the media are feeding a perception that fraud is everywhere and costing vast amounts yet no evidence is offered to support these assertions , take a look at the State Benefits forum and you will see numerouds cases of people unable to access any kind of SW benefit.

SW fraud exists , of that there is no doubt but I do question the belief that its as common as suggested or costing as much as suggested .

Your inference that I think we should blame immigrants or women for our woes is contemptible.

books4sale

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

There is a bit of a difference between whistleblowing on matters of national importance and touting up your neighbour through petty jealousy ,I accept your point ,just in the community I was brought up in it wasnt an option, remember social cohesion is important too.

THis is the kind of FFailer attitude that has the country in a state. Shut up and say nothing, brown envelopes and all that baloney.

If your're neighbour is stupid enough to be gloating about ripping off the system then he/she deserves to shopped. In my experience I find that people like this don't stop at the SW system but given the chance they will rip their 'trusting' neighbours off too.

If everyone had neighbours at this craic and we all said nothing....i'm telling you the government aren't going to think twice about raising taxes on the working people to pay for it.

You the working person are paying for this sh*tehawking, do you expect the government to do everything? stand up for your country FFS

......social cohesion my arse! Laziness in more like it.

coolshannagh28

Attitudes to social welfare fraud and fraud in general are shaped by peoples perception of the social contract .A lot of people would argue that that has been hopelessly broken .
Insiders will argue for compliance ,outsiders will work against ,expect to see more fraud and a much larger black economy as more people become disenchanted ,unemployed and bankrupt .

melekalikimaka

books4sale wrote: »

THis is the kind of FFailer attitude that has the country in a state.

this comment is ridiculous... FF in your opinion happily allowed sw fraud... get a grip

COYW

Delancey wrote: »

but target the unemployed instead - handy ( or cowardly ) to attack a group that nobody seems prepared to speak up for.

The Irish media is full of lefties and wannabe lefties who never shut up about the "most vulnerable members society", which includes those on SW.

jmayo

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

There is a bit of a difference between whistleblowing on matters of national importance and touting up your neighbour through petty jealousy ,I accept your point ,just in the community I was brought up in it wasnt an option, remember social cohesion is important too.

So at what point does it become ok to be a whistleblower ?
What about if your neighbour is abusing someone or if they are running drugs to children ?
It is this very Irish thing about not working with "the system" that us where we are today where corruption was rife and children were mistreated for decades. :mad:

Delancey wrote: »

My moderator position has zero bearing on what I post in other forums and I think it poor form that you mention it at all , be assured that while I agree my post was made late I was completely sober

I found it odd that somone moderating a forum on police recruitment would be complaining about reporting of crime in the media.

Delancey wrote: »

SW fraud is a crime and should be viewed as such - I have no issue with that.
My point is that the media are feeding a perception that fraud is everywhere and costing vast amounts yet no evidence is offered to support these assertions , take a look at the State Benefits forum and you will see numerouds cases of people unable to access any kind of SW benefit.

Well maybe they are trying at last to tighten up on the huge wastage of money through SW fraud and by letting the people know they are putting a shot across the bows of others who may be thinking of carrying it out.
And by huge wastage I mean hundreds of thousands a year which to me is huge.

Delancey wrote: »

SW fraud exists , of that there is no doubt but I do question the belief that its as common as suggested or costing as much as suggested .

Your inference that I think we should blame immigrants or women for our woes is contemptible.

You were the one that dragged in how immigrants and women were going to be scapegoats, but then it is the vulnerable unemployed who are scapegoated.

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

Attitudes to social welfare fraud and fraud in general are shaped by peoples perception of the social contract .A lot of people would argue that that has been hopelessly broken .
Insiders will argue for compliance ,outsiders will work against ,expect to see more fraud and a much larger black economy as more people become disenchanted ,unemployed and bankrupt .

Ahh FFS utter sh**e.
Social contract, nice union term there ?
We had fraud of all sorts long before the financial meltdown and the last couple of governments which appeared to condone lots of dodgy behaviour even amongst it's members.

We had a thriving black economy years ago.
Take a look at the 80s for instance.
Hell the banks themselves were at it back in the 80s when they advised and helped customers set up non resident accounts.

If we always have the attitude that someone else is getting away with something so why shouldn't we, then this country will always be fooked.
The mythical system that people believe they are getting one over on, is actually the system that provides them and their families with services like schools, hospitals, etc that they will need one day.
If they screw the system one day, then they have no right to bitch and moan about services the next day. :mad:

melekalikimaka wrote: »

this comment is ridiculous... FF in your opinion happily allowed sw fraud... get a grip

No they allowed lots of other fraud and corruption.
Or in your love of that party have you forgotten about cj haughey, ray burke, the flynns, liam lawlor, gerard killally, stroke fahy, ivor callely, etc, etc... :rolleyes:

_Kaiser_

jmayo wrote: »

You were the one that dragged in how immigrants and women were going to be scapegoats, but then it is the vulnerable unemployed who are scapegoated.

To be fair - and I stand to be corrected on this - I think what he was getting at is the numbers of women and immigrants claiming payments to which they are not entitled - but because it's not PC or "racist" :rolleyes: to even suggest these people be given the same focus as "the scrounging unemployed" very little is said about those drains on our national purse.

(I also find it hard to believe you didn't realise this yourself to be honest rather than using it to derail the point being made - which in fact backs up Delancey's point)

Yes there is fraud going on, but I too find it extremely hard to believe it's as rampant and blatent as these reports would have you believe.

I was misfortunate enough (like so many others) to be out of work for a year and I knew nothing about "the system", what I was or wasn't entitled to, or how I should go about claiming it (sure I didn't even know for years that you could get relief on bin charges for example - that's another issue though but one that needs to be addressed, namely how Ordinary Decent People are not proactively encouraged/supported to know what they are entitled to get in return for their taxes)

The staff I dealt with in the local Welfare office were - in the main - rude, dismissive and more interested in pushing you back out the door than actualy helping with questions (and I've worked in the PS myself so I know that's not always the case either - another misconception that gets thrown around here a lot!), there were a tonne of forms asking me for information.. some of which I didn't even know myself, and I certainly didn't get lavish payments thrown at me - I got the basic dole (€188), an allowance for my rent (which only covered about 35% of the total and came with the stipulation that that total couldn't exceed x amount) and a medical card (that I used once I think).

Another thing that people forget about the unemployed is that I'd say 95% of people currently on it have worked all/most of their adult lives and have ALREADY PAID for these "benefits" many times over. All they're getting is what they've paid in themselves - ie: it is no "charitable handout" that some people like to infer here.

Furthermore - as I've said many times before - most people on the dole don't want to be on it, can't wait to get off it and back into the workforce and spend probably most of their week worrying about how they're going to cover the basics.. no not this year's holiday - but things like their mortgage/rent, ESB, gas, phone bills, loans etc - NONE of which simply "disappear" along with your salary when one is made redunant and ALL of which do have to be paid something.

Before the crap about "the dole isn't intended for paying those things" comes up again, try telling your bank "well I'll pay you back that €15k I owe you when I get a new job..whenever that may be!" and see how far you get.
Similarly it's not someone who's now unemployed fault that they can't meet these commitments as they were taken out when their income was many times higher than it's reduced to - literally overnight.

Ultimately though, all these kind of reports do is play on the Irish traits of begrudery, jealousy, envy and insecurity. It serves to keep the "sheep" divided, unfocused, squabbling amongst themselves over pennies (in the scheme of things) while billions are paid out in our name (or more accurately - at all our expense!) unnecessarily every few months.

Meanwhile those truely responsible for the mess we find ourselves in, and those dangerously underqualified teachers and so on that we have elected to oversee things, continue to squander money that should be going back into the real economy of infrastructure, healthcare, education and yes "jobs and training" on lavish unvouched for perks and benefits while selling the country into economic servitude to the banks and political establishment of Europe/Berlin/Paris (take your pick but it's certainly not in our best interests at this stage anyway!)

By all means though, continue..

coolshannagh28

Let he who is without sin ......

Hoffmans

if people are fooled by this attemptd spin to make shopping a neighbour pc cool so be it, however somone taking the mick like throwin a new lexus in the drive from fraud or using muntiple identities deserve to be struck off....
after all how many have been caught scamming for greed in high paid jobs and still ponce around likes of banksters,dodgy political expenses claimants, developers....
sure jail them first before before focusing on the €188 a weekers.

jmayo

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

To be fair - and I stand to be corrected on this - I think what he was getting at is the numbers of women and immigrants claiming payments to which they are not entitled - but because it's not PC or "racist" :rolleyes: to even suggest these people be given the same focus as "the scrounging unemployed" very little is said about those drains on our national purse.

You see you are doing the same, you are claiming the unemployed are being targetted unlike women and immigrants.

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Yes there is fraud going on, but I too find it extremely hard to believe it's as rampant and blatent as these reports would have you believe.

I was misfortunate enough (like so many others) to be out of work for a year and I knew nothing about "the system", what I was or wasn't entitled to, or how I should go about claiming it (sure I didn't even know for years that you could get relief on bin charges for example - that's another issue though but one that needs to be addressed, namely how Ordinary Decent People are not proactively encouraged/supported to know what they are entitled to get in return for their taxes)

I have no problem with short term unemployed and by that I mean anyone that lost their jobs during this recession.
I do however have a major problem with those that chose unemployment as a career and rather than taking a job duing the boom times, usually just complained about immigrants coming in taking jobs.

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Another thing that people forget about the unemployed is that I'd say 95% of people currently on it have worked all/most of their adult lives and have ALREADY PAID for these "benefits" many times over. All they're getting is what they've paid in themselves - ie: it is no "charitable handout" that some people like to infer here.

It is nowhere as high as 95%.
According to CSO figures we had
in apr-jun 05 95,000 odd unemployed.
in apr-jun 11 304,000 odd unemployed.

That means that during heiaght of the boom there were way more than 5% of the current unemployed numbers unemployed.
And that does not even count the numbers that could be on the register but for they emigrated.

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Ultimately though, all these kind of reports do is play on the Irish traits of begrudery, jealousy, envy and insecurity. It serves to keep the "sheep" divided, unfocused, squabbling amongst themselves over pennies (in the scheme of things) while billions are paid out in our name (or more accurately - at all our expense!) unnecessarily every few months.

Yeah we would be in the land of milk and honey but for the banks. :rolleyes:

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Meanwhile those truely responsible for the mess we find ourselves in, and those dangerously underqualified teachers and so on that we have elected to oversee things, continue to squander money that should be going back into the real economy of infrastructure, healthcare, education and yes "jobs and training" on lavish unvouched for perks and benefits while selling the country into economic servitude to the banks and political establishment of Europe/Berlin/Paris (take your pick but it's certainly not in our best interests at this stage anyway!)

By all means though, continue..

I have no problem with clamping down on perks for government and high ranking public servants, in fact I would drastically cut their salaries as well.
But lets not forget the poor put upon front line public servants in this country also earn much more that their comparable workers in other countries.
Thus I don't see why we should poor more money into health or education when most of it already goes on overinflated salaries of the ones that work there.

So by all means you continue telling us how investment in health service will mean a better service for the patient rather than just going to keep consultants driving Astons or admin staff shoveling paper to each other.

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

Let he who is without sin ......

See no evil, hear no evil.
And we wonder why we had wholesale child abuse in this country. :rolleyes:

Hoffmans wrote: »

if people are fooled by this attemptd spin to make shopping a neighbour pc cool so be it, however somone taking the mick like throwin a new lexus in the drive from fraud or using muntiple identities deserve to be struck off....
after all how many have been caught scamming for greed in high paid jobs and still ponce around likes of banksters,dodgy political expenses claimants, developers....
sure jail them first before before focusing on the €188 a weekers.

Fruad at any level should not be tolerated, but we Irish appear to tolerate at all levels.
We have people bitching and moaning about the likes of fingelton/fitzpatrick/callely, but yet they have no problem with someone they know pulling a few strokes.
Ever wonder why the likes of flynn or lowry gets elected ? :rolleyes:

Remember how it was deemed alright to make dodgy insurance claims ?
Well finally a few people. like McDonagh in Supermacs made a stand, and the authorities finally tried to show these people were ripping us all off in the end.

It is about time Irish people grew up and show that ripping us off at whatever level is not on.

Oh and if anyone wants to know my feeling on white collar crime check my record of infractions for my views on the purveyors of it.

coolshannagh28

There is a lot of logic in what you say and I can agree with most of it ,the moral aspect of the discussion probably belongs in another forum .Hovever personally I cannot in conscience grass other people up for petty misdemeanors and there are consequences to this activity .
Most people are aware of petty crime and fraud from welfare to alcohol fuel etc yet dont go out of their way to report it ,that does not condone it.
Even on the bigger issues of drugs ,child abuse ,financial fraud the whistleblowers are few and far between .its easy to take a strong moral stance more difficult to follow through on it

Peanut

I have to say I think it's ridiculous the suggestion that reporting of fraud statistics will lead to prejudice against the unemployed.

This is not some minority group where lack of familiarity can lead to bigotry - practically everyone knows someone on the dole, if they're not on it themselves.

If the figures are accurate, they're newsworthy. Reporting fraud is not some especially "Irish" solution to the problem, and the motives of those reporting are largely irrelevant to the discussion.

goose2005

20m isn't much - less than one millianglo