Am I a bad friend?

LegacyUser

So my friend slept with her boss last night.

She knew he was interested in her and had been flirting with him for a while. He is a bit older than her but he's single, shes single. So no one is getting hurt...except I know she will.

Problem is, I know he's an asshole and she tends to get obsessed with guys after being with them so I had made no secret of the fact that I didn't want her to do it but she went ahead and did it anyway.

I've now told her that I don't care that shes done it but I don't want to hear anything about it, about him and I will not be there for her if/when it all falls apart.

Friendship is meant to be unconditional so why am I being such a bitch?

I guess what I want to know is either a) does anyone know why I'm reacting like this and b) am I a bad person?

I already feel like an ass so please go easy on me...I don't know why I feel so strongly about this. Part of me feels like I told her not to do it but she went ahead and did it so shes made her bed and now has to lie in it...but thats not what friendship is supposed to be ( I'm in a relationship btw so its not jealousy)

Taltos

OP - don't care what anyone says but nothing is unconditional.
We all have either friends or acquaintences like yours. Sometimes it just get to the point that enough is enough. I mean how often do we have to sit and cheer on while someone self-destructs...

Chances are though - no matter what you say right now you will be there for her when it falls apart...
Now, having had your say on this latest adventure, it might be prudent to avoid discussing this and him with her for a while. Chances are she knows you are right but will just be angry with you for pointing out the obvious - hopefully your friendship will survive this though.

Firetrap

No, I don't think you're a bad friend at all. I agree with Taltos about nothing being unconditional. That's not to say you can't and don't have a really good friendship with this girl. Unconditional just sounds like you put away your critical faculties and accept everything regardless of whether it's good or bad.

Sometimes things need to be said. Your friend might not appreciate what you've said but it's better for her that you've had your say. Is she mad at you at the moment?

sambuka41

I agree with what everyone is saying, you wouldn't be a good friend if you were cheering her on while she settled for an ass. Being a good friend means being honest with each other, at the end of the day we are all entitled to our own stupid opinions, yours is that this guy is not good news, hers is that he is great. So agree to disagree.

I was in the exact same position as you with a friend a few years ago, she would go after the same type of guys, who all treated her really badly and I would be there to pick up the pieces, till I done what you done, she wasn't happy with me for a while. And it can put a bit of a strain on things, like the elephant in the room but we got passed that.

(unfortunately we aren't friends anymore because eventually she found a guy who wasn't completely crap and thats all she wanted from life, friends were thrown away. I should have known that it would happen because of how obsessed she was with having a bloke; that as soon as she got one who stuck around she would be gone. I think I did know on some level but didn't think she'd do that to me ... :rolleyes: not to say that your friend is doing this but its not a good thing for her to be throwing all her energy into some guy)

LegacyUser

She says shes not mad but I know she is. Shes a bit like Carrie Bradshaw...she wants to analyse absolutely everything about everything. I just can't do that in this instance.

I used to put up with it but in this situation I've told her that I gave her my opinion and she chose not to listen so I don't see why I should sit there and listen as she, as a previous poster said "self-destructs".

I feel like such an ass at the moment though as you're meant to be there for your friends and she has said to me she wishes she could talk to me about it. She has to go to work tomorrow and see him and she wanted advice from me about how she should act and what she should say and do.

I just walked away from her and said I cant do this. She wants advice on something I've already told her not to do. Why am I being like this? Why can't I just be a friend?

LegacyUser

i think you had her best interests at heart. for sure. i know it can be hard to stand back and watch a friend walk into a bad situation when you have a sixth sense that things won't work out. but seriously?? you seem more mad at her for not listening to you and going ahead and doing something you already told her not to, than what she actually did. that, to me, comes accross as extrememly selfish and controlling.

she's an adult. her mistakes are hers to make, not yours to stand back and smugly give out to her for. that doesn't make you a bad person, but i know if i had said that to any of my friends they'd have told me in NO uncertain terms where to get off.

i used to have a friend like you. she was in a relationship and would look on my single life with a mixture of genuine concern mixed with a large dash of what swung between pity and contol. it's like she had my life all mapped out for me - the kind of guy i should go for (which was they kinds of guys SHE liked, not the kinds of guys I liked!), if i didn't conform to her 'plan' she'd get really ratty and frankly rude in her 'advice'. when i eventually did meet my now husband and he turned out to be my type rather than her type she got more and more controlling and rude in her attitude to both him, and me for choosing him, till i just couldn't take it anymore so i had to break the friendship.

if i were you i'd apologise to your friend. and sharpish. explain to her that you do have her best interests at heart and that you do get upset when she gets hurt by these guys, but ultimately it's none of your business. hopefully she'll forgive you and your friendship can move past what you've done.

good luck with it. x

LegacyUser

See I think that's why I'm so pissed off at myself. Because its coming off as controlling. But the reason I don't want to deal with it and the situation anymore is because I gave her advice and she didnt listen so Id rather we didnt discuss it anymore because I'll just keep telling her to stop seeing him...he will hurt her...why is she being such an idiot and not see that he is using her.

I DO think all that (I'm allowed my opinion) but I dont want to influence her decision any further by giving my two cents. But I feel like I'm being selfish because I don't want to sit back and listen to her whinge and complain about why he hasn't called her...how awkward it is at work...how she is now the subject of office gossip...and worse, try and stop her as she does something stupid like go all bunny boiler on his ass and get herself fired.

I mean, bloody hell, no proper friend would tell someone all that. But I can't sit back and smile and watch as it all happens. So other than remove myself from being involved, what else can I do? Should I suck it up? Is that what good friends do?

sambuka41

OP I really don't think you need to apologise. Everyone in this situation is an adult, your friend has the right to make mistakes, of course she does but you don't have to be the one to clear it up. (or cheer her on as she does it, we all see others situations more clearly than our own, so your not being smug by seeing what she can't)

To be honest she sounds a little immature, the two of you analysing everything isn't going to help change anything. If she were certain in her actions she wouldn't need to go to you with all the if's, buts and maybe's. (when I was in that situation I felt used, because as you say she's not listening, she could be talking to anyone, she isn't taking on board your opinion/input at all so why keep asking, its a very frustrating position to be in.)

Really it just facilitates her putting herself in silly situations that cause her pain. You can be a good friend to someone and still have your own beliefs and opinions.

LegacyUser

Thanks Sambuka

she isn't taking on board your opinion/input at all so why keep asking, its a very frustrating position to be in.)

This. I think this is the crux of the issue. I'm frustrated and have snapped and am refusing to deal with it anymore. Partly for selfish reasons-I just don't wana have to deal with it all anymore so its easiest to just run away from it.

The other part is that I believe our friendship will last longer if I just stay out of it. Completely. No imput...either helping or hindering. I just need to stay out of it.

I'm thankful for everyone who has told me not to feel bad. I still feel guilty as hell and I feel like I'm abandoning her when she needs someone (and trust me if this blows up in her face she will need someone). It kills me all the more because she says she wants to talk to me about this. Shes basically saying she needs me and I'm saying no. Im kinda letting her down.

EGAR

A friendship does not come with a handbook of do's and don'ts. Every friendship is different. I would expect a true friend to tell me his/her opinion, the truth as they see it and not lies because they think I want to hear it. That is not friendship IMHO.

Chinafoot

selfishcow wrote: »

So my friend slept with her boss last night.

She knew he was interested in her and had been flirting with him for a while. He is a bit older than her but he's single, shes single. So no one is getting hurt...except I know she will.

Tbh OP, the bit in bold is the important part. She's an adult and can make her own decisions and that includes her own mistakes. You may not approve and you are entitled to voice that disapproval when asked for your opinion but she doesn't have to do as you say.

selfishcow wrote: »

I had made no secret of the fact that I didn't want her to do it but she went ahead and did it anyway.

As she is perfectly entitled to do.

selfishcow wrote: »

I've now told her that I don't care that shes done it but I don't want to hear anything about it, about him and I will not be there for her if/when it all falls apart.

I think you are being unnecessarily harsh here. She's your friend. The fact that she didn't agree with your take on things doesn't mean you should cut her off completely on this issue. By all means, if she asks for your opinion be honest but she's still your friend. Telling her you won't be there when it goes pear shaped seems really harsh.

I'm curious as to how you know so much about her boss though. How exaclty do you know he's an asshole?

selfishcow wrote: »

Friendship is meant to be unconditional so why am I being such a bitch?

Friendship is not unconditional. Why would it be?

I don't know if you're being a bitch, but I do think you seem to be taking an extremely hard line with this friend because she "went ahead and did it anyway." It seems that you're just annoyed that she didn't do what you said. I appreciate that it can be frustrating when you can see as clear as day that things will go tits up, but you can't expect everyone to do as you would. You can't live her life for her.

selfishcow wrote: »

I guess what I want to know is either a) does anyone know why I'm reacting like this and b) am I a bad person?

I don't think you're a bad person but I don't know why you're reacting like this. It just seems like such an overreaction. Then again, perhaps you're constantly left to pick up the pieces and you've had enough.

selfishcow wrote: »

Part of me feels like I told her not to do it but she went ahead and did it so shes made her bed and now has to lie in it...but thats not what friendship is supposed to be ( I'm in a relationship btw so its not jealousy)

If your problem really comes down to "I told her not to do it but she went ahead and did it" then I really do think you're being unreasonable. Even if I completely disgaree with my friends romantic decisions I would never tell them not to come to me when it goes pear shaped. I would probably tell them "Look, you know I don't agree with what you're doing and I don't really want to hear all the details but if things fall apart I'll be there for you. Just keep your eyes open and try not to get hurt."

Maybe give her a call and have a talk about it. You don't need to agree with what shes doing but it would be sad to ruin a friendship over it.

ButterflyABC

Chinafoot wrote: »

selfishcow wrote: »

So my friend slept with her boss last night.

She knew he was interested in her and had been flirting with him for a while. He is a bit older than her but he's single, shes single. So no one is getting hurt...except I know she will.

Tbh OP, the bit in bold is the important part. She's an adult and can make her own decisions and that includes her own mistakes. You may not approve and you are entitled to voice that disapproval when asked for your opinion but she doesn't have to do as you say.

selfishcow wrote: »

I had made no secret of the fact that I didn't want her to do it but she went ahead and did it anyway.

As she is perfectly entitled to do.

selfishcow wrote: »

I've now told her that I don't care that shes done it but I don't want to hear anything about it, about him and I will not be there for her if/when it all falls apart.

I think you are being unnecessarily harsh here. She's your friend. The fact that she didn't agree with your take on things doesn't mean you should cut her off completely on this issue. By all means, if she asks for your opinion be honest but she's still your friend. Telling her you won't be there when it goes pear shaped seems really harsh.

I'm curious as to how you know so much about her boss though. How exaclty do you know he's an asshole?

selfishcow wrote: »

Friendship is meant to be unconditional so why am I being such a bitch?

Friendship is not unconditional. Why would it be?

I don't know if you're being a bitch, but I do think you seem to be taking an extremely hard line with this friend because she "went ahead and did it anyway." It seems that you're just annoyed that she didn't do what you said. I appreciate that it can be frustrating when you can see as clear as day that things will go tits up, but you can't expect everyone to do as you would. You can't live her life for her.

selfishcow wrote: »

I guess what I want to know is either a) does anyone know why I'm reacting like this and b) am I a bad person?

I don't think you're a bad person but I don't know why you're reacting like this. It just seems like such an overreaction. Then again, perhaps you're constantly left to pick up the pieces and you've had enough.

selfishcow wrote: »

Part of me feels like I told her not to do it but she went ahead and did it so shes made her bed and now has to lie in it...but thats not what friendship is supposed to be ( I'm in a relationship btw so its not jealousy)

If your problem really comes down to "I told her not to do it but she went ahead and did it" then I really do think you're being unreasonable. Even if I completely disgaree with my friends romantic decisions I would never tell them not to come to me when it goes pear shaped. I would probably tell them "Look, you know I don't agree with what you're doing and I don't really want to hear all the details but if things fall apart I'll be there for you. Just keep your eyes open and try not to get hurt."

Maybe give her a call and have a talk about it. You don't need to agree with what shes doing but it would be sad to ruin a friendship over it.

I agree that you have been harsh. You have given your advice and that's fair enough but your friend might need you the most now and she will feel that she can't talk to you about it. Shes your friend and it shouldn't be up to you to decide what she can and can't talk to you about.

I would call her and sort out any hard feelings before it is too late.

LegacyUser

Sorry, OP, but I'm think you're being harsh and quite controlling. I suspect that's not what you want to hear...
You seem to assume that she's somehow stupid and don't see what she's doing. I'd say she has a much clearer idea of what's going on that you give her credit for. So why is she doing it? People are driven by more complex motives than are superficially obvious. Maybe she loves the thrill of the chase. Maybe she gets an adrenaline rush from uncertainty. Maybe she has low self-esteem. Maybe her boss isn't an asshole. Whatever it is, these are her choices, driven by aspects of her personality so deep that they make up who she is right now (although she is also young, growing and learning).
Nobody could find fault with you stating your honest opinion. But what I'm getting from your posts is a lot of judgement - not just of her decisions, but of her, at a very fundamental level. And I imagine that she's picking that up too. I think you think about what you value about your friend, cause right now, not only are you not respecting the boundaries between you, but you are talking to her as if she is someone who you don't respect. Do you want to stay friends? There is no point either of you staying in a friendship if the respect is gone.

If you do wanna stay friends, don't let this fester. A quick word saying you may have gone too far is all that's needed. Otherwise both of you could blow up about something random a year from now.

LegacyUser

justadifferentopinion wrote: »

But what I'm getting from your posts is a lot of judgement - not just of her decisions, but of her, at a very fundamental level. And I imagine that she's picking that up too. I think you think about what you value about your friend, cause right now, not only are you not respecting the boundaries between you, but you are talking to her as if she is someone who you don't respect. Do you want to stay friends? There is no point either of you staying in a friendship if the respect is gone.
.

see, this is what ultimately broke the straw on my back with my friend. it took me a long time to see the controlling thing but it was the lack of respect that hurt the most and what i couldn't get over. friendships are based on respect. she respects you and your opinion enough to ask for advice. what she's getting in return is blunt, harshness, exasperation and judgement. is that balanced?

it's also just struck me though that you seem to have a crystal ball when it comes to this guy. you say for definite he's an a******. yet how, do you know him personally?

do you know how he feels about your friend? not what he might say to ''the lads'' or their co-workers - but what he really feels - inside his head?

you say for definite it will all end in tears. how do you know this? you say for definite he will break her heart. again, how?

you've said that you can't watch her 'self distruct'. just because she may have been distraught in the past with a break up how can you say for definite the same will happen this time?

i'm not pointing out all these things to be a b**** by the way, but i do think you should ask yourself these questions, and if the answer to any of them ''i don't know'' then you should re-think your attitude to your friend. i really hope it works out for you, i'd hate to see this go the route of me and my ex-friend xxx

Big Bag of Chips

He seems interested in her, she seems interested in him, why are you so sure that it will end in tears?

selfishcow wrote: »

Problem is, I know he's an asshole and she tends to get obsessed with guys after being with them so I had made no secret of the fact that I didn't want her to do it but she went ahead and did it anyway.

So does that mean she's never allowed be with any fella, because "she tends to get obsessed"? Or is she just not allowed be with a fella that you haven't vetted and approved?

In your own words, she's single, he's single.. so at the end of the day it's their own business. If you don't want to hear the gorey details from her, tell her.. but I think you deciding you won't be there if/when it all goes wrong (ie because she's done something you don't agree with), would be the same as her deciding to end the friendship if you tell her not to do it (ie telling her her to do/not do something she doesn't agree with)

To be honest, if the friendship continues on with this dynamic, I think it'll just be a case of who's going to jump ship first. You are obviously both on different wave lengths, and if that becomes too much of a problem the friendship can't continue... so will you dump her, or will she dump you?

LegacyUser

It's not that I don't want to hear it...didn't you read my post? I know I'm a **** friend. I'm wondering whether people have felt like this before and if this is just a part and parcel of friendship or is it indicative of something wrong with me personally?

Don't get me wrong, I don't think I'm wrong. In fact I know I'm not. People have questioned how I know he's an ass ... How I know she'll get hurt. Well maybe I should have mentioned this earlier but this boss is my former boss and this isn't the first time I've seen him do this. And how do I know she'll get hurt? You think I don't know my friend well enough to know she's falling for this guy? How I can't see her already blowing off plans with me...not even to meet up with him but to try and organise ways to "bump" into him. He's already blanking her and shes already freaking out.

The thing is, what I really don't want is to be the friend who says "I told you so" but at the same time I can't sit there and listen to her bull**** on about how she cant believe this is happening and what did she do wrong and it's so unfair because the girls at work are whispering about her behind her back. I'm damned if I do and I'm damned if I don't.

Am I a bad friend or a bad person?

sambuka41

selfishcow wrote: »

Am I a bad friend or a bad person?

you're neither. Its just one of those situations where people differ. There is nothing wrong with you and there is nothing wrong with her. She wants to live her life a certain way and you don't see the point in living that way. Like she probably doesn't see the point in living the way you do.

What some of the other people have said is true to an extent, maybe you have lost respect for her (only you know that) it can be hard to respect someone who doesn't respect herself (how could she if she is carrying on in this way? just my opinion though)

We can't always agree with what our friends do, and it does sound like you will be there for her at the end of it all. I think your plan of staying out of it until then is the best. You have to be good to yourself as well as her, and if she is wrecking your head then a bit of distance can be the thing to help save your friendship (it may also finish it but you have no control over how she will take it, you just have to do what is right for you) It sounds like her drama is taking a lot out of you emotionally, thats not a good situation to be in.

Firetrap

I still think you did the right thing by telling her some home truths but it's time to repair the damage done. Whether your friend takes it on board or not is up to her now. Maybe you could take a different tack and try to advise her on a different strategy?

LegacyUser

Your not being a bad person by giving her constructive advice. She has obviously chosen to ignore it, she's allowed to do that. Its your job as her friend to let her make mistakes and still have someone to come to who will sympathise when she's feeling like an idiot for chasing some man around like a 14 year old with a crush.
You dont have to say 'I told you so' when that happens, she will know that herself.

I think that kind of behaviour of getting obsessed with men after one liaison, engineering opportunities to "bump into them", and generally being overly needy is a symptom of lonliness and not feeling totally complete in oneself. Recognise that she's probably not in the best place emotionally and use that as the guage for how to be friends with her, rather than letting it pivot around you not approving of her choices.

LegacyUser

Hi

Me again. So just wondering how long I should leave it before I step in again? As I predicted, the proverbial has hit the fan and he's ignored her in work which has meant that everyone in the office is wondering what happened between them over xmas and are now talking.

I've been asked by a few former colleagues if I know anything and I acted dumb and said nothing (even though I hate lying). So I can see her getting more upset (I found she had been crying this evening) but I don't want to step in too soon.

I know if I tell her to open up to me now, she's going to want to know how she can fix this (aka get him back). To be honest I have no advice on how to get him back (WHY?) or how to get over the gossip (other than just ignore it which she can't do).

So as I have nothing constructive to offer should I remain out of it still? Id like to hear back from the people who told me to be there for her. How exactly would you be there for her now? Please?

Big Bag of Chips

Try put yourself in her shoes to then decide what you'd like YOUR friend to do for you in the same situation.

I know you don't agree with her. I know you think she's a silly cow, but now is your time to decide if you still want to be her friend, or is this the final straw for you, and the time you call a halt to the friendship.

If you do contact her.. don't make a big drama of "poor you, how are you. You must be feeling terrible etc etc"

I'd go at it from the angle "look, don't worry about it, at least now you know what he's like. Don't let him see its bothering you, and something else will be the talk of the office next week"

If you dwell on her feeling bad, she'll end up feeling worse.

Chinafoot

selfishcow wrote: »

Hi

Me again. So just wondering how long I should leave it before I step in again? As I predicted, the proverbial has hit the fan and he's ignored her in work which has meant that everyone in the office is wondering what happened between them over xmas and are now talking.

I've been asked by a few former colleagues if I know anything and I acted dumb and said nothing (even though I hate lying).

Its not about lying for heavens sake, it's about showing some loyalty to your friend and keeping her confidence! Why on earth would you tell former colleagues about the private life of your friend? Who are they to be asking anyway. Nosey fools. It is none of their business.

selfishcow wrote: »

So I can see her getting more upset (I found she had been crying this evening) but I don't want to step in too soon.

I don't get this at all tbh. She's upset, she's your friend, and apart from not doing what you've told her to do I don't see how she has hurt you in any way. Why wouldn't you try to comfort her when you know how upset she is. Also, I'm intrigued by your use of the phrase "step in". Generally when people "step in" it is to take control of a situation. All this is required here is a bit of comforting and listening.

selfishcow wrote: »

I know if I tell her to open up to me now, she's going to want to know how she can fix this (aka get him back). To be honest I have no advice on how to get him back (WHY?) or how to get over the gossip (other than just ignore it which she can't do).

So as I have nothing constructive to offer should I remain out of it still? Id like to hear back from the people who told me to be there for her. How exactly would you be there for her now? Please?

How exactly would I be there? I'd grab a bottle of wine and I'd head over to my friends house for a girly chat and I would sit there and let her cry/rant/whatever about the whole situation. I wouldn't say "I told you so", I wouldn't judge her, I would just listen. If she asked me how to get him back I would tell her that I had no idea and I would tell her that she deserves better. I would also be aware that she more than likely just wants someone to talk to about it and she doesn't want me trying to tell her what to do.

Big Bag of Chips is bang on the money with their post and you should read it carefully.

You seem to be unable to find a middle ground between trying to control her actions and walking away completely. It doesn't have to be an either/or scenario.

Big Bag of Chips

OP, maybe you don't mean it to, but your tone in your posts comes across as almost exasperated. Like you're having to deal with an annoying child, someone you don't consider to be on the same level as you. A previous poster mentioned respect, and I think that's it exactly. You seem to not respect this friend at all, and having to "deal" with her is a chore for you.

The last paragraph of your last post...

"So as I have nothing constructive to offer should I remain out of it still? Id like to hear back from the people who told me to be there for her. How exactly would you be there for her now? Please?"

Sounds so pissed off (and sarcastic towards those who advised you to be there for her) to be honest.

If being there for her, and just listening and making the right sounds (not "stepping in" or "fixing" it) is not natural for you, then I think you're not doing her, or yourself any favours by sticking around being her friend.

She will pick up on your attitude towards her.. that you are just waiting for her next disaster, so that you can step in.

I'm not saying you are a bad friend by the way. But what you are offering is not what she needs at the minute.

LovelyLottie

I always appreciate when my friends are honest with me - especially where guys are concerned - but when i make mistakes (as we all do, and as your friend probably has done) it makes me feel so much better when i know my friends will still be there for me.

My friend recently got mad at me on the phone for replying to a text from my ex when she told me not to. And that upset me. I knew i shouldn't have replied. But i'm not perfect and i was lonely Your friend knows she's not doing the right thing i'd say. Try not to be too harsh. Tell her your point of view but don't lose a friend over it. My best friends are the ones who have helped me through my tough, messy times and who have been there for me when things have fallen apart.