Strandhill Dunes

OhYesItIs

Hi folks,

Do we know what the story is with the erosion of the pedestrian walkway at Strandhill beach?

I mean, can its erosion solely be attributed to the construction of the sea defence wall at the water sewerage treatment plant?

Or has this happened before? ie: I gather that the walkway has only been there for about 10 years, and could its now partial and increasing destruction by the sea have been predicted?

And will it be rebuilt? Or is that now futile?

What can we predict?

Easy access to Shelly Valley looks as if its gone.

Could the sea cut off the Culeenamore Penninsula/Spit?

Could the sea cut into the golf course?

Was it obvious/could it have been predicted at the time that the construction of the sea defence wall at the water sewerage plant would have had a destructive knock-on-effect somewhere else due to the displacement of wave energy?

Will the sand be redeposited at the main section of the beach, or is that now an irreversible action?

What options are open to the SOS (Save Our Sandunes) Campaign Leaders? Do they really have any?

Thanks for any comments you have....

Newton's third law is: For every action, there is an equal and
opposite reaction.

Happy Christmas folks....:D

promethius

an awful lot of sand sucked out of the main beach, this happens in cycles and it will be deposited back in time if that same cycle continues. lot more sand gone than in last few years so only time will tell.

it's possible they may wait and see if that happens before they rebuild the walkway. can you access the shelley valley through the golf course? i know it's private property but is it possible?

i don't think the water treatment plant defences have had much of an effect on the area beside the walkway. that shored up what was there already but hey it's a complex system (currents and sands) so it's possible.

the nature of beaches is that they are constantly evolving with sands shifting, don't think man will ever tame them

on the positive side the movement of sand has been producing some particularly good waves out there, left bank in front of cannon as good as it's been in ten years

OhYesItIs

Thanks Promethius,

Indeed the seas and sands are ever changing.

Your observation on the best waves in ten years is interesting in itself.

I was wondering that if the Councillors have gotten together on the SOS Campaign there must be some significant professional concern regarding the extent of the damage that can/will be caused.

I'm no geophysical expert, but I would have thought it unlikely that the construction of the sea wall at the sewerage treatment plant has not had an affect on the tidal movements in the bay.

The deflected wave energy has to go somewhere. As you say its a complex system, and I believe that even the slightest change to the system can bring about significant amplified changes elsewhere. But thats only my opinion.

I admire your optimism and hope that you're right. I would normally be optimistic myself, but I'd say theres a lot more significant erosion to take place.

I'm not a golfer, but I'd have thought there would be concerns in that quarter. The large dune at Shelly valley looks like its on the way out and I would have though that re-building the walkway for now, would be an expensive and pointless excercise.

Maybe it has nothing at all to do with the sea defence wall and the sea might be naturally reclaiming that which it has given up for centuries.

I hope I'm wrong. Happy surfing!:D

Plazaman

I remember being at a meeting on coastal erosion many moons ago (in the old Silver Swan Ballroom so that'll tell ya) and Gary Salter who was and still is the marine engineer with Sligo County Council was talking about various Sligo Beaches and Strandhill was one that mentioned. As it was a natural half moon bay the tide came in and out with little or no problems. When the rock armour was placed in front of the cannon in the mid 70's/early 80's (???) it started to affect the tidal patterns which started eroding the dunes on the airport side.

He said it back then that any changes to coastal protection on one side of the beach will effect the other side. I'm fully convinced that the new defences in front of the sewage plant have a part to play but as Sligo coasts also have had heavier storms and a larger number of high tides this year so that all factors in too. One of the council lads told me that erosion on the Dunes side is factored per tide not per year (i.e. one high tide will sweep out a years worth of sand).

Put rock armour over there (if the money is available) and the tide has to affect somewhere else be it the wave patterns or sweep round into Culleenamore and cut the point off in 5 to 10 years. Hard to know.

And yet there are still people, despite all the warning signs and the fences, trampling over the dunes causing more harm.

promethius

some really interesting stuff in those posts.

the defences in front of voya and the prom must have had a huge part to play in the sand movements alright out there that's a good point.
the rocks are in the water quite a lot so must have quite an effect. even on moderate tides they come into play.

the ones down at treatment station are a bit different, i surf down there and they're not wet as often as the other ones so prob not as big an effect but yeah could still be contributing.

there was a 4 week period in late october that had some absolutely pumping surf, it just didn't stop. wasn't as big as that of this month and late novemeber but very consistent every day. then the last 4 weeks has had some monstrous waves with very high periods (indication of power) up to 17 seconds.

i think we're going to see some sand back there in new year, swells normally drop off from about now for a few months. if not strandhill as a beach could be under threat for a while. business out there must be worried, when the prom was closed off it was a very different place to be.

what are the campaigners proposing?

OhYesItIs

Thanks guys.

Here Plazaman! theres nothing wrong at all with your memory:D

Indeed, Promethius, what are the campaigners proposing, and what do they possibly know that we dont? If anything, but their involvement is significant, (there aint an election coming up is there?):eek:

I can find no web presence for the campaign, but apparently they are asking for emails to be sent to them to express "ones" support.

Too right Plazaman, folk are still adding to the problem. It was a miracle no one got injured or worse, I saw people with young kids up on top of the big dune looking over when the dune had a fragile scarp face that could have collapsed at any moment..:eek:

Cheers guys...we live in hope.:D

T runner

I don't think the new sea defence has made any difference TBH. Waves have always been deflected there. If they were allowed to breach then there would be an affect. The recent collapse is natural erosion. If you look all around that coast even on the calmer culleenamore side you will see fallen banks.

There is no chance of shell valley being flooded in any of our lifetimes or beyond. It's too high. The high dune ain't going anywhere soon either. A sensible approach to walkers would be for the council to corrall them left up the main path of the main dune. Ie re. Jig the fence slightly. This area is on the safe side of the fence anyway and it makes no sense not to consider the hundreds of walkers using the area daily. Cutting off all access to the dune increases the chances of someone approaching the steep dune. Irrational overreaction there. Like when they banned surfing initially after the tragic triple drowning in the ninetoes. People crossing that dune on the main path makes absolutely no difference to the dunes untegrity. There are tonnes if sand being shifted by the wind as I type. Nothing to do with people walking.

OhYesItIs

Thanks T Runner,

Whats the motivation for the SOS campaign IYO?

The SOS placards mention "dire" consequences...I'd be interested to know what methods they have in mind to deal with the situation, and if they consider the sea defence wall has accelerated or created the erosion....otherwise images of King Kanute spring to mind.

I must drop them an email.

il gatto

It was a particularly stormy year with several prolonged periods of high winds and tides from summer 2010 until now. Alot of sand washed off the beach and it dug deep at the foot of the big dune as it was beyond the rock armour. The erosion protection has saved more than it has affected. Before they constructed it, the dunes in front of the caravan park were steadily vanishing. They were twice as high in the '80s.

OhYesItIs

Thanks il gatto:


"The erosion protection has saved more than it has affected. Before they constructed it, the dunes in front of the caravan park were steadily vanishing. They were twice as high in the '80s.[/QUOTE]


Interesting info.

The erosion protection that you refer to, is that the rock armour at the front of the promenade?

Or was there additional protection directly placed in front of the caravan park, now covered by naturally occuring rock? (If those rocks and large pebbles are as I assume, naturally occuring?)

If it is solely the large rocks at the front of the promendade that you refer to, could they have reduced erosion at other unprotected parts of the beach?, ie the front of the caravan park?

Apologies for seeming to labour the point, but I'm genuinely interested in this one.

I'm also trying to get a handle on where the Councillors behind the SOS campaign are coming from.

I'm guessing now thats its all about our grim economic situation and the future lack of finance to provide additional coastal protection, and that the campaign organisers (who all appear to be Councillors), are building up public support to justify further funding to repair the damage.

It seems to me now that nature will take its "not-so-drastic" course and the pedestrian walkway can eventually be rebuilt.

The warning of "dire" consequences in the Campaign mission statement might be alarmist?

Thanks again all.

promethius

i noticed today while at rosses point beach that a lot of sand has been sucked out of there as well. you can see it mostly on first beach where the slipway is about 3ft off the sand that it was level with in the summer.

the causeway and the topography there shelter this beach a lot more than strandhill

in the morning i was surfing a reef (rocky) break in maugherhow (north sligo) and i noticed sand on my way out that i'd never seen before. nearest beach is about 3 miles away.

both of these observations back up the point of view of it being a particularly bad winter and autumn for storms with a lot of sand moving around the place.

cost of the protection was about €250,000 in rosses point a few years back and it's maybe 200m long or a bit more. can't see where any money is going to come from for any of this.

OhYesItIs

Cheers Promethius..

Now I'm imagining that sand bank with a palm tree, 2 seats, one table, my current wife and a good few bottles of plonk...not the same? oh well..

serious tho, great report...happy nu year!

shanec1928

promethius wrote: »

i noticed today while at rosses point beach that a lot of sand has been sucked out of there as well. you can see it mostly on first beach where the slipway is about 3ft off the sand that it was level with in the summer.

the causeway and the topography there shelter this beach a lot more than strandhill

in the morning i was surfing a reef (rocky) break in maugherhow (north sligo) and i noticed sand on my way out that i'd never seen before. nearest beach is about 3 miles away.

both of these observations back up the point of view of it being a particularly bad winter and autumn for storms with a lot of sand moving around the place.

cost of the protection was about €250,000 in rosses point a few years back and it's maybe 200m long or a bit more. can't see where any money is going to come from for any of this.

were about to be exact because there are a few small beaches that have being there for years

promethius

i'm not going to name it exactly as it's a secret spot and surf etiquete forbids it. but i've been surfing this spot about 6 or 7 years and the sand there was def not there before, was always rocky reef. you're right though, few wee small sandy coves up that way, lovely part of the world.

il gatto

OhYesItIs wrote: »

Thanks il gatto:


"The erosion protection has saved more than it has affected. Before they constructed it, the dunes in front of the caravan park were steadily vanishing. They were twice as high in the '80s.

Interesting info.

The erosion protection that you refer to, is that the rock armour at the front of the promenade?

Or was there additional protection directly placed in front of the caravan park, now covered by naturally occuring rock? (If those rocks and large pebbles are as I assume, naturally occuring?)

If it is solely the large rocks at the front of the promendade that you refer to, could they have reduced erosion at other unprotected parts of the beach?, ie the front of the caravan park?

Apologies for seeming to labour the point, but I'm genuinely interested in this one.

I'm also trying to get a handle on where the Councillors behind the SOS campaign are coming from.

I'm guessing now thats its all about our grim economic situation and the future lack of finance to provide additional coastal protection, and that the campaign organisers (who all appear to be Councillors), are building up public support to justify further funding to repair the damage.

It seems to me now that nature will take its "not-so-drastic" course and the pedestrian walkway can eventually be rebuilt.

The warning of "dire" consequences in the Campaign mission statement might be alarmist?

Thanks again all.[/Quote]

There was work carried out towards the caravan park in the late '80s/early '90s but I can't remember exactly where. In one spot you can see where they built up a dune and protected it but it's not obvious now as the marran grass has covered it. The small stones have covered any rock armour that was put in place. So many in fact that the beach in that direction is only walkable at low tide.
Having seen the changes happen over the last quarter of a century, it's seems to me that it's ever changing and usually cyclical but sometimes a bad storm or prolonged bad weather is enough to throw things out line.

Sligored

Around 2001, 700,000 pounds or euro was spent on protection against erosion to the south of the tip of the car park promenade. The reason i know this is that the golf club were required to fund 10% of the works.
The golf club own shelly valley and were hoping to build 3 holes out there as the boundaries of the club have been diminished down the years and it has led to it being the 18 hole club built on the smallest acreage in ireland. Obviously Building holes in shelly valley would have been very environmentally sensitive and would have had to allow for pedestrian acccess and the insurance implications.There are no plans to build holes at present.
Therefore the idea of using current golf club land to allow pedestrian access to shelly valley would be a non runner. When i was a kid (about 30 years ago) the height of the northern dune to shelly valley was twice as high as it is now and while there is a certain amount of natural erosion , human influence has also accelerated this erosion.
I am only a member of the golf club so these are my own opinions based on 2nd hand information down the years.

il gatto

Sligored wrote: »

Around 2001, 700,000 pounds or euro was spent on protection against erosion to the south of the tip of the car park promenade. The reason i know this is that the golf club were required to fund 10% of the works.
The golf club own shelly valley and were hoping to build 3 holes out there as the boundaries of the club have been diminished down the years and it has led to it being the 18 hole club built on the smallest acreage in ireland. Obviously Building holes in shelly valley would have been very environmentally sensitive and would have had to allow for pedestrian acccess and the insurance implications.There are no plans to build holes at present.
Therefore the idea of using current golf club land to allow pedestrian access to shelly valley would be a non runner. When i was a kid (about 30 years ago) the height of the northern dune to shelly valley was twice as high as it is now and while there is a certain amount of natural erosion , human influence has also accelerated this erosion.
I am only a member of the golf club so these are my own opinions based on 2nd hand information down the years.

It was higher, but not twice as high. It's lost a few meters maybe. A look at old photos show this. It seemed much bigger to me too, but as a kid, I suppose it would.
The golf club wouldn't countenance allowing access and neither should they. Too many issues with rights of way and insurance. Having siad that they may want to review their treatment of an existing right of way on the left of the 1st fairway. No dogs? Really? On a public path? Bad enough they've mowed it to half the width it once was, without dictating how it's used.

Sligored

il gatto wrote: »

It was higher, but not twice as high. It's lost a few meters maybe. A look at old photos show this. It seemed much bigger to me too, but as a kid, I suppose it would.
The golf club wouldn't countenance allowing access and neither should they. Too many issues with rights of way and insurance. Having siad that they may want to review their treatment of an existing right of way on the left of the 1st fairway. No dogs? Really? On a public path? Bad enough they've mowed it to half the width it once was, without dictating how it's used.

The sign for no dogs is specifically for golfers - not those using the right of way. People were bringing their dogs while playing golf were letting them run free and others were being intimidated/afraid of these dogs. i for one dont like dogs.
With regard to the right of way i have been golfing in strandhill since 1980 and this path has never being mowed / altered . If you have a look at the path , it has a big falloff , so there is no way it can be mowed to make it smaller. The club dont dictate how it is used. It was originally a path for an ass and cart.
The golf club has a good relationship with the strandhill community and would do nothing to harm this goodwill.

il gatto

Sligored wrote: »

The sign for no dogs is specifically for golfers - not those using the right of way. People were bringing their dogs while playing golf were letting them run free and others were being intimidated/afraid of these dogs. i for one dont like dogs.
With regard to the right of way i have been golfing in strandhill since 1980 and this path has never being mowed / altered . If you have a look at the path , it has a big falloff , so there is no way it can be mowed to make it smaller. The club dont dictate how it is used. It was originally a path for an ass and cart.
The golf club has a good relationship with the strandhill community and would do nothing to harm this goodwill.

It has got narrower in places. I remember when some of the locals drove it when their road was cut off for pipe laying. Parts of it are certainly mowed closer to the fence than it used to be. I cycled it hundreds of times over the years as a kid and we had horses in some of the adjoining fields. I also played there as a junior 20 odd years ago. Maybe with the prevailing southwesterly, the left hand out of bounds was too easily visited:D
People were bringing their dogs golfing? Wtf? Who does that? No regard for course etiquette. I'm glad to hear that the sign is just for those buffoons. Is it stupidity or arrogance I wonder?

Sligored

similar problems in rosses point

http://yfrog.com/oc3uyoyj

promethius

Sligored wrote: »

similar problems in rosses point

http://yfrog.com/oc3uyoyj

that's the south end of the 2nd beach which is not protected with the rocks, they ran out of money at the time of doing it. the other parts holding up better but have probably shifted the problem to here :-)
i was walking it last week with mutley and there's some serious drops there now. the water is also rebounding off the cliffs which doesn't help. the exceptional storm surges and storms of this year have been getting over the causeway at the cluckhorn and doing some real damage.
I looked back at old photos of the beach from the early 1900s and it's really not that much different to be honest. i was expecting to see big changes but not that much.

OhYesItIs

If u aint alreadly seen it, short feature on Strandhill Dunes Erosion

RTE 6 One News Tuesday 24 Janaury .... fast forward to 30 mins..