O2 money card mixup

MungBean

Have an o2 money card and bought some stuff with it a while back. Payment seemed to go through, money went off the card and stuff arrived. Recently I had a look at the account and seen the money for that previous purchase was never taken and there was no record of it on the account.

So I did what anyone would do and spent the money on more stuff. I looks at my account today and its in minus figures after that previous purchase has caught up with me.

My question is, seeing as its a pay as you go card and I did nothing wrong am I obliged to cover that overdraft ? Can I just leave the card and get a new one ? I dont see how they can come on me for owed money from a pay as you go card that I never put onto it. Any money I put on the card has been spent by me and now they are looking for more after messing up or allowing a delayed transaction.

Will I be spending Christmas in jail or are O2 just gonna have to take a hit on this one ?

MyKeyG

MungBean wrote: »

Have an o2 money card and bought some stuff with it a while back. Payment seemed to go through, money went off the card and stuff arrived. Recently I had a look at the account and seen the money for that previous purchase was never taken and there was no record of it on the account.

So I did what anyone would do and spent the money on more stuff. I looks at my account today and its in minus figures after that previous purchase has caught up with me.

My question is, seeing as its a pay as you go card and I did nothing wrong am I obliged to cover that overdraft ? Can I just leave the card and get a new one ? I dont see how they can come on me for owed money from a pay as you go card that I never put onto it. Any money I put on the card has been spent by me and now they are looking for more after messing up or allowing a delayed transaction.

Will I be spending Christmas in jail or are O2 just gonna have to take a hit on this one ?

You honestly think you did nothing wrong? Seriously???

MungBean

MyKeyG wrote: »

You honestly think you did nothing wrong? Seriously???

How did I ? I put money onto the card and used it to purchase items. Any money not taken when those items were purchased is down to a fault with O2 or the retailer not me. If you topped up by 10 and somehow got 20 credit you think it fair to get a bill for the extra 10 that you never asked for or think it wrong to use it ? Its a fault on their part not mine.

MyKeyG

MungBean wrote: »

How did I ? I put money onto the card and used it to purchase items. Any money not taken when those items were purchased is down to a fault with O2 or the retailer not me. If you topped up by 10 and somehow got 20 credit you think it fair to get a bill for the extra 10 that you never asked for or think it wrong to use it ? Its a fault on their part not mine.

But that happens all the time! Bank of Ireland used to take up to three working days to process my card purchases. If I re-spent the money in the meantime it was debited as an overdraft when the original purchase came out. There was no credit applied there was just a delay in taking the cash. I think you should look at your T&C's. You might get a shock!!!

caspa307

MungBean wrote: »

Have an o2 money card and bought some stuff with it a while back. Payment seemed to go through, money went off the card and stuff arrived. Recently I had a look at the account and seen the money for that previous purchase was never taken and there was no record of it on the account.

So I did what anyone would do and spent the money on more stuff. I looks at my account today and its in minus figures after that previous purchase has caught up with me.

My question is, seeing as its a pay as you go card and I did nothing wrong am I obliged to cover that overdraft ? Can I just leave the card and get a new one ? I dont see how they can come on me for owed money from a pay as you go card that I never put onto it. Any money I put on the card has been spent by me and now they are looking for more after messing up or allowing a delayed transaction.

Will I be spending Christmas in jail or are O2 just gonna have to take a hit on this one ?

op go to your account online look at your list of transactions, look at the incomplete transaction, then look at the question mark next to it where it explains that the money is reserved for 10 days if the dealer the does not complete the transaction within the ten days your money is released, id say that clears you

SteoL

MungBean wrote: »

Have an o2 money card and bought some stuff with it a while back. Payment seemed to go through, money went off the card and stuff arrived. Recently I had a look at the account and seen the money for that previous purchase was never taken and there was no record of it on the account.

So I did what anyone would do and spent the money on more stuff. I looks at my account today and its in minus figures after that previous purchase has caught up with me.

My question is, seeing as its a pay as you go card and I did nothing wrong am I obliged to cover that overdraft ? Can I just leave the card and get a new one ? I dont see how they can come on me for owed money from a pay as you go card that I never put onto it. Any money I put on the card has been spent by me and now they are looking for more after messing up or allowing a delayed transaction.

Will I be spending Christmas in jail or are O2 just gonna have to take a hit on this one ?

You spent the money knowing there was a transaction pending which would put you into the red. Of course you are liable for it.

Hannah2011

MungBean wrote: »

Have an o2 money card and bought some stuff with it a while back. Payment seemed to go through, money went off the card and stuff arrived. Recently I had a look at the account and seen the money for that previous purchase was never taken and there was no record of it on the account.

So I did what anyone would do and spent the money on more stuff. I looks at my account today and its in minus figures after that previous purchase has caught up with me.

My question is, seeing as its a pay as you go card and I did nothing wrong am I obliged to cover that overdraft ? Can I just leave the card and get a new one ? I dont see how they can come on me for owed money from a pay as you go card that I never put onto it. Any money I put on the card has been spent by me and now they are looking for more after messing up or allowing a delayed transaction.

Will I be spending Christmas in jail or are O2 just gonna have to take a hit on this one ?

Do you not understand the difference between right and wrong? What if they had taken the money twice but you didn't notice straight away? Do you think they wouldn't owe the money back to you? Your dishonesty is astounding.

MungBean

caspa307 wrote: »

op go to your account online look at your list of transactions, look at the incomplete transaction, then look at the question mark next to it where it explains that the money is reserved for 10 days if the dealer the does not complete the transaction within the ten days your money is released, id say that clears you

The transaction is dated for last month though which is what makes me unsure. But I did get a shipping e-mail from the retailer yesterday so thats why I think its a fault with them and not O2. Items were sent a month ago but the transaction only went through on their system yesterday/today and the pending payment from last month was paid by over drawing on my account.

That reserved for 10 days may be why the money reappeared on my account to begin with so I think your right, I think I may not be obliged to pay for it.

MungBean

SteoL wrote: »

You spent the money knowing there was a transaction pending which would put you into the red. Of course you are liable for it.

The money is not available for pending transactions. The fact that it was shows that the transaction was not completed by the retailer and not deemed pending by O2. They released the money after a failed transaction and I spent it. Now they authorised that transaction again and debited my account. Given that its a pay as you go card I really dont see how they can bill me for it so to speak. Its levied against the card not me. They can only recoup it if money it put onto the card which I'm not gonna do.

Hannah2011

MungBean wrote: »

The money is not available for pending transactions. The fact that it was shows that the transaction was not completed by the retailer and not deemed pending by O2. They released the money after a failed transaction and I spent it. Now they authorised that transaction again and debited my account. Given that its a pay as you go card I really dont see how they can bill me for it so to speak. Its levied against the card not me. They can only recoup it if money it put onto the card which I'm not gonna do.

What goes around comes around.

MungBean

Hannah2011 wrote: »

Do you not understand the difference between right and wrong? What if they had taken the money twice but you didn't notice straight away? Do you think they wouldn't owe the money back to you? Your dishonesty is astounding.

No need to get personal here now. What did I do that was wrong ? I spent money I put onto the card. O2 held the money for the retailer who never collected it and then released it back to me. They would owe me because they took money that they shouldnt have. I have not spent money I shouldnt have spent. The transaction should have went through in the first place so its them that did wrong not me.

MungBean

Hannah2011 wrote: »

What goes around comes around.

In regards to the money or are you wishing me personal misfortune because you think I deserve it ?

SteoL

MungBean wrote: »

Hannah2011 wrote: »

Do you not understand the difference between right and wrong? What if they had taken the money twice but you didn't notice straight away? Do you think they wouldn't owe the money back to you? Your dishonesty is astounding.

No need to get personal here now. What did I do that was wrong ? I spent money I put onto the card. O2 held the money for the retailer who never collected it and then released it back to me. They would owe me because they took money that they shouldnt have. I have not spent money I shouldnt have spent. The transaction should have went through in the first place so its them that did wrong not me.

Are you serious? All cards can have a delay between the time you authorise the transaction and the actual money being debited from your account. That is why people do bank reconciliations. In the past it could take a month or more with some retailers. The customer would owe this to the bank if they didn't have the funds to cover it. Customer then faces unauthorised overdraft fees etc because it is the customers responsibility to manage their finances. Same applies here.

caspa307

SteoL wrote: »

Are you serious? All cards can have a delay between the time you authorise the transaction and the actual money being debited from your account. That is why people do bank reconciliations. In the past it could take a month or more with some retailers. The customer would owe this to the bank if they didn't have the funds to cover it. Customer then faces unauthorised overdraft fees etc because it is the customers responsibility to manage their finances. Same applies here.

but if it says if the transaction isnt completed by THE RETAILER, then they release the funds like i understand transactions can take time to go through,but if the money was released back into his account.

MungBean

SteoL wrote: »

Are you serious? All cards can have a delay between the time you authorise the transaction and the actual money being debited from your account. That is why people do bank reconciliations. In the past it could take a month or more with some retailers. The customer would owe this to the bank if they didn't have the funds to cover it. Customer then faces unauthorised overdraft fees etc because it is the customers responsibility to manage their finances. Same applies here.

Its a pay as you go card. It is impossible (or should be) to spend money you do not have on that card. Thats the purpose of the card, just as much as its up to me to manage my finances its up to o2 and the retailer to manage theirs which they did not do.

This isnt the past and I have no bank account linked to this card. Its a top up card where transactions can only be made when the card is in credit, which it only ever is when you top it up. So the failure to take the money with the transaction I authorised is no fault of mine. The money on my card that I spent after that was put back by o2 who deemed the other transaction as not completed.

So whether the transaction was delayed or whether it was cancelled doesnt matter. Either way it was credit on the account not allocated for any purchase to any retailer and I was perfectly within my rights to spend it. Only question is whether or not I'm obligated to pay for the over drawn amount. As its a top up card I dont see how I am. Only that if the card was to be used again the minus amount would have to be covered first.

SteoL

caspa307 wrote: »

SteoL wrote: »

Are you serious? All cards can have a delay between the time you authorise the transaction and the actual money being debited from your account. That is why people do bank reconciliations. In the past it could take a month or more with some retailers. The customer would owe this to the bank if they didn't have the funds to cover it. Customer then faces unauthorised overdraft fees etc because it is the customers responsibility to manage their finances. Same applies here.

but if it says if the transaction isnt completed by THE RETAILER, then they release the funds like i understand transactions can take time to go through,but if the money was released back into his account.

Well obviously the retailer is going to pick up on their error once the bank recs are done and go looking for the money. Wouldn't you? The OP should have known this would happen. Not sure the sum involved or if O2 will pursue it but they are perfectly entitled too.

Del2005

caspa307 wrote: »

but if it says if the transaction isnt completed by THE RETAILER, then they release the funds like i understand transactions can take time to go through,but if the money was released back into his account.

There could be any number of reasons why the transaction took more than 10 days to go through, just read this forum for how many people have issues with charges and refunds on cards.

Basically the OP purchased something and then spent the money for it on something else even though the knew the money wasn't theirs to spend, they only found out about the 10 days from here! And know they want to know how to avoid paying their debt.

I hope Santa or his Elves are looking at the OPs computer, they ain't getting any presents.

Jesus Shaves

Just get a new card, afterall it's only an o2 debit card

Del2005

MungBean wrote: »

Only question is whether or not I'm obligated to pay for the over drawn amount.

YES

Keith186

There might be some law which states that the retailer has to credit the card within a certain amount of time and if they dont you might have recourse to a refund.

Just heard that of a mate before about credit cards.

Morally speaking though, you should just pay it or top up.

SteoL

MungBean wrote: »

Its a pay as you go card. It is impossible (or should be) to spend money you do not have on that card. Thats the purpose of the card, just as much as its up to me to manage my finances its up to o2 and the retailer to manage theirs which they did not do.

This isnt the past and I have no bank account linked to this card. Its a top up card where transactions can only be made when the card is in credit, which it only ever is when you top it up. So the failure to take the money with the transaction I authorised is no fault of mine. The money on my card that I spent after that was put back by o2 who deemed the other transaction as not completed.

So whether the transaction was delayed or whether it was cancelled doesnt matter. Either way it was credit on the account not allocated for any purchase to any retailer and I was perfectly within my rights to spend it. Only question is whether or not I'm obligated to pay for the over drawn amount. As its a top up card I dont see how I am. Only that if the card was to be used again the minus amount would have to be covered first.

Read the T&C's to see what it says about delayed transactions and negative balances. Would be interested in knowing what they say. I suppose you can just get another card and see what happens. Although, If it were me I wouldn't be surprised if the letters started arriving in the post.

MungBean

Del2005 wrote: »

YES

How so ? Can you point me to the part in the T&C where it states all monies owed to the card must be paid ? the T&C are in PDF on the site and I cant open PDF's on this thing.

As for your previous post I'm not trying to weasel out of paying what I owe just trying to understand the legal ramifications of not paying the overdrawn amount on my card. I didnt spend anything that o2 did not allow me to spend. They allowed me to spend what I did because they had no pending transactions linked to any monies on my account.

So I think it rather mean spirited that you would say Santy would jot me down as a bad egg. If I dont get my presents I'll know who tipped him off too !!

MungBean

SteoL wrote: »

Read the T&C's to see what it says about delayed transactions and negative balances. Would be interested in knowing what they say. I suppose you can just get another card and see what happens. Although, If it were me I wouldn't be surprised if the letters started arriving in the post.

Cant read the T&C on this, it all went whack when I updated linux and nothing works for me no more including my pdf viewer.

I wouldnt be surprised either if I started to get letters. Just interested in other peoples take on what may happen or how easily they would be dismissed. The balance is around €50 so its not massive but not the amount you would expect o2 to let sit on the cards without attempt to recover either.

Del2005

MungBean wrote: »

How so ? Can you point me to the part in the T&C where it states all monies owed to the card must be paid ? the T&C are in PDF on the site and I cant open PDF's on this thing.

As for your previous post I'm not trying to weasel out of paying what I owe just trying to understand the legal ramifications of not paying the overdrawn amount on my card. I didnt spend anything that o2 did not allow me to spend. They allowed me to spend what I did because they had no pending transactions linked to any monies on my account.

So I think it rather mean spirited that you would say Santy would jot me down as a bad egg. If I dont get my presents I'll know who tipped him off too !!

It's nothing to do with O2's T&C's it's contract law you're dealing with.

You entered a contract to purchase a service, which you received. You then later checked your account and had money available so spent it on something else. Your 1st contract is still valid so if O2 don't come after you the retailer will.

It's the same if you get an over payment into your bank account or a mistaken tax refund, I wish!, they'll take it back from you. It just depends on how long it takes them to figure it out.

MungBean

Del2005 wrote: »

It's nothing to do with O2's T&C's it's contract law you're dealing with.

You entered a contract to purchase a service, which you received. You then later checked your account and had money available so spent it on something else. Your 1st contract is still valid so if O2 don't come after you the retailer will.

It's the same if you get an over payment into your bank account or a mistaken tax refund, I wish!, they'll take it back from you. It just depends on how long it takes them to figure it out.

The payment went through to the retailer as soon as they realised their mistake. What I'm left with is the T&C of the o2 money card in relation to delayed transactions and money owed due to negative balance.

Its not like an over payment in your bank account because its not a mistaken credit. Its my money that the retailer never took because they did not complete the transaction in a timely fashion.

I'm still waiting for all you head shakers to tell me what exactly I did wrong in this situation. Very quick to get personal and thank posts which question me as a person but not so quick to back the snide crap up with anything in the way of discussion.

MyKeyG

MungBean wrote: »

The payment went through to the retailer as soon as they realised their mistake. What I'm left with is the T&C of the o2 money card in relation to delayed transactions and money owed due to negative balance.

Its not like an over payment in your bank account because its not a mistaken credit. Its my money that the retailer never took because they did not complete the transaction in a timely fashion.

I'm still waiting for all you head shakers to tell me what exactly I did wrong in this situation. Very quick to get personal and thank posts which question me as a person but not so quick to back the snide crap up with anything in the way of discussion.

Ah now don't get all huffy, people are just shocked at the fact that you're trying to sidestep what you owe by looking for a loophole. Would you not actually bother contacting O2 instead of spitting your dummy out on Boards?

SteoL

MungBean wrote: »

I'm still waiting for all you head shakers to tell me what exactly I did wrong in this situation. Very quick to get personal and thank posts which question me as a person but not so quick to back the snide crap up with anything in the way of discussion.

I don't see anyone getting personal but as to what you did wrong I would think that's fairly obvious.

dudara

Moved to Banking & Insurance & Pensions

dudara

MungBean

SteoL wrote: »

I don't see anyone getting personal but as to what you did wrong I would think that's fairly obvious.

Plenty of people have gotten personal. Just look at the post previous to yours where I was informed not to be spitting out my dummy on boards.

And statements like "Its obvious" isnt explaining or adding anything to the discussion. I spent nothing on that card that o2 did not allow, I used no money that was allocated for any other transaction.

People need to start explaining why I was wrong to use that money and how I as a consumer was legally obliged to not touch that money. In other words back up your assertions with an argument or keep your comments to yourself.

dudara

Posters Keep it civil please.

OP - I do not see how you can avoid this one. You knowingly made one transaction, then followed up with a second one that put you in the red. You knew the cumulative total of what you spent, regardless of what the online system said.

MungBean

dudara wrote: »

Posters Keep it civil please.

OP - I do not see how you can avoid this one. You knowingly made one transaction, then followed up with a second one that put you in the red. You knew the cumulative total of what you spent, regardless of what the online system said.

I dont see that as wrong though. If I'm left will a bill for services rendered then I am left with a bill. But to insinuate I'm somehow guilty of deception here isnt on. I have done nothing wrong regardless of what I owe at the end of all this. Charges to the card arising from a delayed transaction are just that, charges to the card.

They do not necessarily have to reflect my moral standing and to infer that I am morally corrupt because I have put myself in a position to owe an amount without breaking any laws or orchestrating the situation where the money could be re-spent isnt fair.

As regards to avoiding the payment I am more so just curious as to the outcome of leaving the card overdrawn and not topping it up. I'm unsure how I can be forced to purchase credit for this card as that is the only way of settling the balance. Can they legally force me to purchase a top up for a pay as you go card ?

scary

so if you paid for something with a cheque, and after 2 weeks the cheque wasn't cashed, would you just spend the funds in your account that covered the cheque and say well you never cashed the cheque in time so i'm not paying for it after it bounces?

MungBean

scary wrote: »

so if you paid for something with a cheque, and after 2 weeks the cheque wasn't cashed, would you just spend the funds in your account that covered the cheque and say well you never cashed the cheque in time so i'm not paying for it after it bounces?

The "cheque" never bounced though. The purchase is paid for and nothing I did delayed that. Your analogy isnt comparable.

jor el

MungBean wrote: »

I dont see that as wrong though. If I'm left will a bill for services rendered then I am left with a bill. But to insinuate I'm somehow guilty of deception here isnt on. I have done nothing wrong regardless of what I owe at the end of all this.

I really don't see how you can continue to make those claims. You knowingly spent money that was not yours. You were fully aware of this fact, so it amounts to nothing short of deception on your part. You are completely and utterly at fault for this situation, and to even question if you still owe the money or not is ludicrous.

MungBean wrote: »

They do not necessarily have to reflect my moral standing and to infer that I am morally corrupt because I have put myself in a position to owe an amount without breaking any laws or orchestrating the situation where the money could be re-spent isnt fair.

You haven't broken any law, but you have spent money as per the terms of a credit agreement between you and O2. You now owe this money to them, both legally and morally. Trying to get out of paying this by implying that it was your money to spend and it's though luck on O2/the retailer for not collecting on the credit in time is both legally and morally wrong. Having had this already explained to you many times, you're still trying to deny any responsibility, which is probably why people are now questioning you on a personal level.

MungBean wrote: »

Can they legally force me to purchase a top up for a pay as you go card ?

They can, and most likely will, pursue you by any means available to them for the money you owe.

MungBean

jor el wrote: »

I really don't see how you can continue to make those claims. You knowingly spent money that was not yours. You were fully aware of this fact, so it amounts to nothing short of deception on your part. You are completely and utterly at fault for this situation, and to even question if you still owe the money or not is ludicrous.

Explain how money I put onto the card, which was allocated for a transaction and then given back to me by o2 who disassociated the money with the transaction was not my money. The rest of your argument implies I was aware it was not my money so forgive me if I cannot take that ridiculous assumption seriously and ignore the rest of that argument.

You haven't broken any law, but you have spent money as per the terms of a credit agreement between you and O2. You now owe this money to them, both legally and morally. Trying to get out of paying this by implying that it was your money to spend and it's though luck on O2/the retailer for not collecting on the credit in time is both legally and morally wrong. Having had this already explained to you many times, you're still trying to deny any responsibility, which is probably why people are now questioning you on a personal level.

I have not denied responsibility. I have questioned it in several posts but never denied it. You agree I have broken no laws and your issue on the moral and legal obligation falls on the credit now owed to o2. Which I have not denied any responsibility in owing or stated that I will not repay it. Nor have I stated it would be morally right to do so. I am not arguing that I am not obliged to pay whats owed by implying it was my money to spend. I am implying I did not do anything wrong by spending it which is what others are jumping on. So please do not misrepresent my argument.

jor el

MungBean wrote: »

Explain how money I put onto the card, which was allocated for a transaction and then given back to me by o2 who disassociated the money with the transaction was not my money. The rest of your argument implies I was aware it was not my money so forgive me if I cannot take that ridiculous assumption seriously and ignore the rest of that argument.

Well, from your own opening post

MungBean wrote: »

Payment seemed to go through, money went off the card and stuff arrived. Recently I had a look at the account and seen the money for that previous purchase was never taken and there was no record of it on the account.

There was no record of the payment ever going through, so you knew that the original payment had not been made, and you went and spent the money on something else. How you can claim this is anything other than you spending money that you knew was not yours is beyond me. Your claim that you didn't know that this wasn't yours to spend is laughable, and completely unbelievable.

If you were not aware that this was not your money, then who's did you think it was? Seriously, I've never heard someone trying to push such a flawed argument as far before. To put it in the simplest terms I can think of; you put €X on your card, you spend €X+Y, so where exactly did you think the €Y came out of, or who did you think was going to pay it?

MungBean wrote: »

I have not denied responsibility. I have questioned it in several posts but never denied it. You agree I have broken no laws and your issue on the moral and legal obligation falls on the credit now owed to o2. Which I have not denied any responsibility in owing or stated that I will not repay it. Nor have I stated it would be morally right to do so. I am not arguing that I am not obliged to pay whats owed by implying it was my money to spend. I am implying I did not do anything wrong by spending it which is what others are jumping on. So please do not misrepresent my argument.

I'm sorry, but which part of your argument is being misrepresented, when this is what you have asked from the outset? You can't get much more denial than to say; I did nothing wrong.

MungBean wrote: »

My question is, seeing as its a pay as you go card and I did nothing wrong am I obliged to cover that overdraft ? Can I just leave the card and get a new one ?

Your claim is that you did no wrong, and you also ask are you obliged to even pay the debt, or can you just walk away from it. You've also stated that "I didnt spend anything that o2 did not allow me to spend", but what you've failed to say is that you spent more money than what you put on the card in the first place. So yes, yes of course you must pay this, and no, no you cannot just walk away from it.

BuffyBot

You've got answers here, and just because you don't like them doesn't make them wrong. As you just appear to be content to trot out the same line over and over, there doesn't seem to be much point leaving this open.