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O2 money card mixup

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  • 24-12-2011 12:21am
    #1
    MungBean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭


    Have an o2 money card and bought some stuff with it a while back. Payment seemed to go through, money went off the card and stuff arrived. Recently I had a look at the account and seen the money for that previous purchase was never taken and there was no record of it on the account.

    So I did what anyone would do and spent the money on more stuff. I looks at my account today and its in minus figures after that previous purchase has caught up with me.

    My question is, seeing as its a pay as you go card and I did nothing wrong am I obliged to cover that overdraft ? Can I just leave the card and get a new one ? I dont see how they can come on me for owed money from a pay as you go card that I never put onto it. Any money I put on the card has been spent by me and now they are looking for more after messing up or allowing a delayed transaction.

    Will I be spending Christmas in jail or are O2 just gonna have to take a hit on this one ?


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    #2
    MyKeyG
    Registered Users Posts: 2,282 ✭✭✭MyKeyG


    MungBean wrote: »
    Have an o2 money card and bought some stuff with it a while back. Payment seemed to go through, money went off the card and stuff arrived. Recently I had a look at the account and seen the money for that previous purchase was never taken and there was no record of it on the account.

    So I did what anyone would do and spent the money on more stuff. I looks at my account today and its in minus figures after that previous purchase has caught up with me.

    My question is, seeing as its a pay as you go card and I did nothing wrong am I obliged to cover that overdraft ? Can I just leave the card and get a new one ? I dont see how they can come on me for owed money from a pay as you go card that I never put onto it. Any money I put on the card has been spent by me and now they are looking for more after messing up or allowing a delayed transaction.

    Will I be spending Christmas in jail or are O2 just gonna have to take a hit on this one ?
    You honestly think you did nothing wrong? Seriously???


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    #3
    MungBean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭MungBean


    MyKeyG wrote: »
    You honestly think you did nothing wrong? Seriously???

    How did I ? I put money onto the card and used it to purchase items. Any money not taken when those items were purchased is down to a fault with O2 or the retailer not me. If you topped up by 10 and somehow got 20 credit you think it fair to get a bill for the extra 10 that you never asked for or think it wrong to use it ? Its a fault on their part not mine.


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    #4
    MyKeyG
    Registered Users Posts: 2,282 ✭✭✭MyKeyG


    MungBean wrote: »
    How did I ? I put money onto the card and used it to purchase items. Any money not taken when those items were purchased is down to a fault with O2 or the retailer not me. If you topped up by 10 and somehow got 20 credit you think it fair to get a bill for the extra 10 that you never asked for or think it wrong to use it ? Its a fault on their part not mine.
    But that happens all the time! Bank of Ireland used to take up to three working days to process my card purchases. If I re-spent the money in the meantime it was debited as an overdraft when the original purchase came out. There was no credit applied there was just a delay in taking the cash. I think you should look at your T&C's. You might get a shock!!!


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    #5
    caspa307
    Registered Users Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭caspa307


    MungBean wrote: »
    Have an o2 money card and bought some stuff with it a while back. Payment seemed to go through, money went off the card and stuff arrived. Recently I had a look at the account and seen the money for that previous purchase was never taken and there was no record of it on the account.

    So I did what anyone would do and spent the money on more stuff. I looks at my account today and its in minus figures after that previous purchase has caught up with me.

    My question is, seeing as its a pay as you go card and I did nothing wrong am I obliged to cover that overdraft ? Can I just leave the card and get a new one ? I dont see how they can come on me for owed money from a pay as you go card that I never put onto it. Any money I put on the card has been spent by me and now they are looking for more after messing up or allowing a delayed transaction.

    Will I be spending Christmas in jail or are O2 just gonna have to take a hit on this one ?


    op go to your account online look at your list of transactions, look at the incomplete transaction, then look at the question mark next to it where it explains that the money is reserved for 10 days if the dealer the does not complete the transaction within the ten days your money is released, id say that clears you


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    #6
    SteoL
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,545 ✭✭✭SteoL


    MungBean wrote: »
    Have an o2 money card and bought some stuff with it a while back. Payment seemed to go through, money went off the card and stuff arrived. Recently I had a look at the account and seen the money for that previous purchase was never taken and there was no record of it on the account.

    So I did what anyone would do and spent the money on more stuff. I looks at my account today and its in minus figures after that previous purchase has caught up with me.

    My question is, seeing as its a pay as you go card and I did nothing wrong am I obliged to cover that overdraft ? Can I just leave the card and get a new one ? I dont see how they can come on me for owed money from a pay as you go card that I never put onto it. Any money I put on the card has been spent by me and now they are looking for more after messing up or allowing a delayed transaction.

    Will I be spending Christmas in jail or are O2 just gonna have to take a hit on this one ?

    You spent the money knowing there was a transaction pending which would put you into the red. Of course you are liable for it.


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    #7
    Hannah2011
    Registered Users Posts: 41 ✭Hannah2011


    MungBean wrote: »
    Have an o2 money card and bought some stuff with it a while back. Payment seemed to go through, money went off the card and stuff arrived. Recently I had a look at the account and seen the money for that previous purchase was never taken and there was no record of it on the account.

    So I did what anyone would do and spent the money on more stuff. I looks at my account today and its in minus figures after that previous purchase has caught up with me.

    My question is, seeing as its a pay as you go card and I did nothing wrong am I obliged to cover that overdraft ? Can I just leave the card and get a new one ? I dont see how they can come on me for owed money from a pay as you go card that I never put onto it. Any money I put on the card has been spent by me and now they are looking for more after messing up or allowing a delayed transaction.

    Will I be spending Christmas in jail or are O2 just gonna have to take a hit on this one ?

    Do you not understand the difference between right and wrong? What if they had taken the money twice but you didn't notice straight away? Do you think they wouldn't owe the money back to you? Your dishonesty is astounding.


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    #8
    MungBean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭MungBean


    caspa307 wrote: »
    op go to your account online look at your list of transactions, look at the incomplete transaction, then look at the question mark next to it where it explains that the money is reserved for 10 days if the dealer the does not complete the transaction within the ten days your money is released, id say that clears you

    The transaction is dated for last month though which is what makes me unsure. But I did get a shipping e-mail from the retailer yesterday so thats why I think its a fault with them and not O2. Items were sent a month ago but the transaction only went through on their system yesterday/today and the pending payment from last month was paid by over drawing on my account.

    That reserved for 10 days may be why the money reappeared on my account to begin with so I think your right, I think I may not be obliged to pay for it.


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    #9
    MungBean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭MungBean


    SteoL wrote: »
    You spent the money knowing there was a transaction pending which would put you into the red. Of course you are liable for it.

    The money is not available for pending transactions. The fact that it was shows that the transaction was not completed by the retailer and not deemed pending by O2. They released the money after a failed transaction and I spent it. Now they authorised that transaction again and debited my account. Given that its a pay as you go card I really dont see how they can bill me for it so to speak. Its levied against the card not me. They can only recoup it if money it put onto the card which I'm not gonna do.


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    #10
    Hannah2011
    Registered Users Posts: 41 ✭Hannah2011


    MungBean wrote: »
    The money is not available for pending transactions. The fact that it was shows that the transaction was not completed by the retailer and not deemed pending by O2. They released the money after a failed transaction and I spent it. Now they authorised that transaction again and debited my account. Given that its a pay as you go card I really dont see how they can bill me for it so to speak. Its levied against the card not me. They can only recoup it if money it put onto the card which I'm not gonna do.

    What goes around comes around.


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    #11
    MungBean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭MungBean


    Hannah2011 wrote: »
    Do you not understand the difference between right and wrong? What if they had taken the money twice but you didn't notice straight away? Do you think they wouldn't owe the money back to you? Your dishonesty is astounding.

    No need to get personal here now. What did I do that was wrong ? I spent money I put onto the card. O2 held the money for the retailer who never collected it and then released it back to me. They would owe me because they took money that they shouldnt have. I have not spent money I shouldnt have spent. The transaction should have went through in the first place so its them that did wrong not me.


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    #12
    MungBean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭MungBean


    Hannah2011 wrote: »
    What goes around comes around.

    In regards to the money or are you wishing me personal misfortune because you think I deserve it ?


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    #13
    SteoL
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,545 ✭✭✭SteoL


    MungBean wrote: »
    Hannah2011 wrote: »
    Do you not understand the difference between right and wrong? What if they had taken the money twice but you didn't notice straight away? Do you think they wouldn't owe the money back to you? Your dishonesty is astounding.

    No need to get personal here now. What did I do that was wrong ? I spent money I put onto the card. O2 held the money for the retailer who never collected it and then released it back to me. They would owe me because they took money that they shouldnt have. I have not spent money I shouldnt have spent. The transaction should have went through in the first place so its them that did wrong not me.

    Are you serious? All cards can have a delay between the time you authorise the transaction and the actual money being debited from your account. That is why people do bank reconciliations. In the past it could take a month or more with some retailers. The customer would owe this to the bank if they didn't have the funds to cover it. Customer then faces unauthorised overdraft fees etc because it is the customers responsibility to manage their finances. Same applies here.


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    #14
    caspa307
    Registered Users Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭caspa307


    SteoL wrote: »
    Are you serious? All cards can have a delay between the time you authorise the transaction and the actual money being debited from your account. That is why people do bank reconciliations. In the past it could take a month or more with some retailers. The customer would owe this to the bank if they didn't have the funds to cover it. Customer then faces unauthorised overdraft fees etc because it is the customers responsibility to manage their finances. Same applies here.


    but if it says if the transaction isnt completed by THE RETAILER, then they release the funds like i understand transactions can take time to go through,but if the money was released back into his account.


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    #15
    MungBean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭MungBean


    SteoL wrote: »
    Are you serious? All cards can have a delay between the time you authorise the transaction and the actual money being debited from your account. That is why people do bank reconciliations. In the past it could take a month or more with some retailers. The customer would owe this to the bank if they didn't have the funds to cover it. Customer then faces unauthorised overdraft fees etc because it is the customers responsibility to manage their finances. Same applies here.

    Its a pay as you go card. It is impossible (or should be) to spend money you do not have on that card. Thats the purpose of the card, just as much as its up to me to manage my finances its up to o2 and the retailer to manage theirs which they did not do.

    This isnt the past and I have no bank account linked to this card. Its a top up card where transactions can only be made when the card is in credit, which it only ever is when you top it up. So the failure to take the money with the transaction I authorised is no fault of mine. The money on my card that I spent after that was put back by o2 who deemed the other transaction as not completed.

    So whether the transaction was delayed or whether it was cancelled doesnt matter. Either way it was credit on the account not allocated for any purchase to any retailer and I was perfectly within my rights to spend it. Only question is whether or not I'm obligated to pay for the over drawn amount. As its a top up card I dont see how I am. Only that if the card was to be used again the minus amount would have to be covered first.


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    #16
    SteoL
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,545 ✭✭✭SteoL


    caspa307 wrote: »
    SteoL wrote: »
    Are you serious? All cards can have a delay between the time you authorise the transaction and the actual money being debited from your account. That is why people do bank reconciliations. In the past it could take a month or more with some retailers. The customer would owe this to the bank if they didn't have the funds to cover it. Customer then faces unauthorised overdraft fees etc because it is the customers responsibility to manage their finances. Same applies here.


    but if it says if the transaction isnt completed by THE RETAILER, then they release the funds like i understand transactions can take time to go through,but if the money was released back into his account.

    Well obviously the retailer is going to pick up on their error once the bank recs are done and go looking for the money. Wouldn't you? The OP should have known this would happen. Not sure the sum involved or if O2 will pursue it but they are perfectly entitled too.


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    #17
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,877 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    caspa307 wrote: »
    but if it says if the transaction isnt completed by THE RETAILER, then they release the funds like i understand transactions can take time to go through,but if the money was released back into his account.

    There could be any number of reasons why the transaction took more than 10 days to go through, just read this forum for how many people have issues with charges and refunds on cards.

    Basically the OP purchased something and then spent the money for it on something else even though the knew the money wasn't theirs to spend, they only found out about the 10 days from here! And know they want to know how to avoid paying their debt.

    I hope Santa or his Elves are looking at the OPs computer, they ain't getting any presents.


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    #18
    Jesus Shaves
    Registered Users Posts: 2,959 ✭✭✭Jesus Shaves


    Just get a new card, afterall it's only an o2 debit card


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    #19
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,877 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    MungBean wrote: »
    Only question is whether or not I'm obligated to pay for the over drawn amount.


    YES


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    #20
    Keith186
    Registered Users Posts: 3,194 ✭✭✭Keith186


    There might be some law which states that the retailer has to credit the card within a certain amount of time and if they dont you might have recourse to a refund.

    Just heard that of a mate before about credit cards.

    Morally speaking though, you should just pay it or top up.


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    #21
    SteoL
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,545 ✭✭✭SteoL


    MungBean wrote: »

    Its a pay as you go card. It is impossible (or should be) to spend money you do not have on that card. Thats the purpose of the card, just as much as its up to me to manage my finances its up to o2 and the retailer to manage theirs which they did not do.

    This isnt the past and I have no bank account linked to this card. Its a top up card where transactions can only be made when the card is in credit, which it only ever is when you top it up. So the failure to take the money with the transaction I authorised is no fault of mine. The money on my card that I spent after that was put back by o2 who deemed the other transaction as not completed.

    So whether the transaction was delayed or whether it was cancelled doesnt matter. Either way it was credit on the account not allocated for any purchase to any retailer and I was perfectly within my rights to spend it. Only question is whether or not I'm obligated to pay for the over drawn amount. As its a top up card I dont see how I am. Only that if the card was to be used again the minus amount would have to be covered first.

    Read the T&C's to see what it says about delayed transactions and negative balances. Would be interested in knowing what they say. I suppose you can just get another card and see what happens. Although, If it were me I wouldn't be surprised if the letters started arriving in the post.


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    #22
    MungBean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭MungBean


    Del2005 wrote: »
    YES

    How so ? Can you point me to the part in the T&C where it states all monies owed to the card must be paid ? the T&C are in PDF on the site and I cant open PDF's on this thing.

    As for your previous post I'm not trying to weasel out of paying what I owe just trying to understand the legal ramifications of not paying the overdrawn amount on my card. I didnt spend anything that o2 did not allow me to spend. They allowed me to spend what I did because they had no pending transactions linked to any monies on my account.

    So I think it rather mean spirited that you would say Santy would jot me down as a bad egg. If I dont get my presents I'll know who tipped him off too !!


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    #23
    MungBean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭MungBean


    SteoL wrote: »
    Read the T&C's to see what it says about delayed transactions and negative balances. Would be interested in knowing what they say. I suppose you can just get another card and see what happens. Although, If it were me I wouldn't be surprised if the letters started arriving in the post.

    Cant read the T&C on this, it all went whack when I updated linux and nothing works for me no more including my pdf viewer.

    I wouldnt be surprised either if I started to get letters. Just interested in other peoples take on what may happen or how easily they would be dismissed. The balance is around €50 so its not massive but not the amount you would expect o2 to let sit on the cards without attempt to recover either.


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    #24
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,877 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    MungBean wrote: »
    How so ? Can you point me to the part in the T&C where it states all monies owed to the card must be paid ? the T&C are in PDF on the site and I cant open PDF's on this thing.

    As for your previous post I'm not trying to weasel out of paying what I owe just trying to understand the legal ramifications of not paying the overdrawn amount on my card. I didnt spend anything that o2 did not allow me to spend. They allowed me to spend what I did because they had no pending transactions linked to any monies on my account.

    So I think it rather mean spirited that you would say Santy would jot me down as a bad egg. If I dont get my presents I'll know who tipped him off too !!

    It's nothing to do with O2's T&C's it's contract law you're dealing with.

    You entered a contract to purchase a service, which you received. You then later checked your account and had money available so spent it on something else. Your 1st contract is still valid so if O2 don't come after you the retailer will.

    It's the same if you get an over payment into your bank account or a mistaken tax refund, I wish!, they'll take it back from you. It just depends on how long it takes them to figure it out.


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    #25
    MungBean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭MungBean


    Del2005 wrote: »
    It's nothing to do with O2's T&C's it's contract law you're dealing with.

    You entered a contract to purchase a service, which you received. You then later checked your account and had money available so spent it on something else. Your 1st contract is still valid so if O2 don't come after you the retailer will.

    It's the same if you get an over payment into your bank account or a mistaken tax refund, I wish!, they'll take it back from you. It just depends on how long it takes them to figure it out.

    The payment went through to the retailer as soon as they realised their mistake. What I'm left with is the T&C of the o2 money card in relation to delayed transactions and money owed due to negative balance.

    Its not like an over payment in your bank account because its not a mistaken credit. Its my money that the retailer never took because they did not complete the transaction in a timely fashion.

    I'm still waiting for all you head shakers to tell me what exactly I did wrong in this situation. Very quick to get personal and thank posts which question me as a person but not so quick to back the snide crap up with anything in the way of discussion.


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    #26
    MyKeyG
    Registered Users Posts: 2,282 ✭✭✭MyKeyG


    MungBean wrote: »
    The payment went through to the retailer as soon as they realised their mistake. What I'm left with is the T&C of the o2 money card in relation to delayed transactions and money owed due to negative balance.

    Its not like an over payment in your bank account because its not a mistaken credit. Its my money that the retailer never took because they did not complete the transaction in a timely fashion.

    I'm still waiting for all you head shakers to tell me what exactly I did wrong in this situation. Very quick to get personal and thank posts which question me as a person but not so quick to back the snide crap up with anything in the way of discussion.
    Ah now don't get all huffy, people are just shocked at the fact that you're trying to sidestep what you owe by looking for a loophole. Would you not actually bother contacting O2 instead of spitting your dummy out on Boards?


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    #27
    SteoL
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,545 ✭✭✭SteoL


    MungBean wrote: »

    I'm still waiting for all you head shakers to tell me what exactly I did wrong in this situation. Very quick to get personal and thank posts which question me as a person but not so quick to back the snide crap up with anything in the way of discussion.

    I don't see anyone getting personal but as to what you did wrong I would think that's fairly obvious.


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    #28
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,519 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    Moved to Banking & Insurance & Pensions

    dudara


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    #29
    MungBean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭MungBean


    SteoL wrote: »
    I don't see anyone getting personal but as to what you did wrong I would think that's fairly obvious.

    Plenty of people have gotten personal. Just look at the post previous to yours where I was informed not to be spitting out my dummy on boards.

    And statements like "Its obvious" isnt explaining or adding anything to the discussion. I spent nothing on that card that o2 did not allow, I used no money that was allocated for any other transaction.

    People need to start explaining why I was wrong to use that money and how I as a consumer was legally obliged to not touch that money. In other words back up your assertions with an argument or keep your comments to yourself.


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    #30
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,519 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    Posters Keep it civil please.

    OP - I do not see how you can avoid this one. You knowingly made one transaction, then followed up with a second one that put you in the red. You knew the cumulative total of what you spent, regardless of what the online system said.


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    #31
    MungBean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭MungBean


    dudara wrote: »
    Posters Keep it civil please.

    OP - I do not see how you can avoid this one. You knowingly made one transaction, then followed up with a second one that put you in the red. You knew the cumulative total of what you spent, regardless of what the online system said.

    I dont see that as wrong though. If I'm left will a bill for services rendered then I am left with a bill. But to insinuate I'm somehow guilty of deception here isnt on. I have done nothing wrong regardless of what I owe at the end of all this. Charges to the card arising from a delayed transaction are just that, charges to the card.

    They do not necessarily have to reflect my moral standing and to infer that I am morally corrupt because I have put myself in a position to owe an amount without breaking any laws or orchestrating the situation where the money could be re-spent isnt fair.

    As regards to avoiding the payment I am more so just curious as to the outcome of leaving the card overdrawn and not topping it up. I'm unsure how I can be forced to purchase credit for this card as that is the only way of settling the balance. Can they legally force me to purchase a top up for a pay as you go card ?


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