Toyota Rav4 starter

leedslad

Evening all, I'm having a perculiar problem for a while with a Toyota Rav4.
It will always start first thing in the morning,irrespective of weather, If i go for a spin and park up for 15/20 mins and start off again no problem,but if i stop for diesel and try to start again or nip into the shop for a minute and try to start again it doesn't want to know.The battery seems fine,Is this a problem with the starter? and if so, how come it's ok to start after 15 min but not after 3 min?

PADRAIC.M

leedslad wrote: »

Evening all, I'm having a perculiar problem for a while with a Toyota Rav4.
It will always start first thing in the morning,irrespective of weather, If i go for a spin and park up for 15/20 mins and start off again no problem,but if i stop for diesel and try to start again or nip into the shop for a minute and try to start again it doesn't want to know.The battery seems fine,Is this a problem with the starter? and if so, how come it's ok to start after 15 min but not after 3 min?

What year and fuel type? If d4d, common problem I find, that it won't start when hot, but fine when cold, get starter overhauled

leedslad

PADRAIC.M wrote: »

What year and fuel type? If d4d, common problem I find, that it won't start when hot, but fine when cold, get starter overhauled

Yeah Padraic,D4D 2.0ltr gx 2002

leedslad

Had the Rav to an electrical engineer and he put on computer,no fault or sensors showing,battery sound so he suggested a starter.could'nt source a secondhand starter so got garage to order new one.Low and behold still having the same probs.Any more suggestions as to what it might be?

CJhaughey

I would say one or more injectors have gone bad.
Common problem in D4D engines.

richardsheil

leedslad wrote: »

Had the Rav to an electrical engineer and he put on computer,no fault or sensors showing,battery sound so he suggested a starter.could'nt source a secondhand starter so got garage to order new one.Low and behold still having the same probs.Any more suggestions as to what it might be?

Not much of an electrical engineer then was he? Not much of an auto electrician either.

moodrater

I'd suspect an injector too, at pressures of up to 1600-1800bar the tolerances in the injector are tiny, the expansion caused when hot can be enough to cause excessive leakoff.

The rudimentary test would be to take off the return hoses when nice and hot; an injector thats bad enough to stop the vehicle starting should be obvious from the quantity of leakoff. People go to all sorts of lengths with tubes and graduated bottles to measure leakoff but by the time an injectors bad enough to cause a no-start the leakoff should be obvious.

If you know someone with diagnostics get them to check the rail pressure when turning over and not starting. It needs to be over 200 or 300 bar for the ecu to fire the injectors and start.

At a push you can also measure the voltage on the rail pressure sensor directly when cranking and compare to a good vehicle.
From memory about 1.3V (bosch) on the rail pressure sensor after a few of seconds of turning over means you have sufficient rail pressure so your injectors and pump are ok and the problem lies elsewhere.

colm_mcm

Surely it's either turning over or not turning over? How could a new starter sort that?

leedslad

colm_mcm wrote: »

Surely it's either turning over or not turning over? How could a new starter sort that?

Reread opening post re turning over

leedslad

Moodrater and Cj thanks for the pointers.

colm_mcm

leedslad wrote: »

Reread opening post re turning over

Oh, so you turn the key and absolutely nothing happens?

leedslad

richardsheil wrote: »

Not much of an electrical engineer then was he? Not much of an auto electrician either.

Why Bother to answer the post if this is the best you can come back with:rolleyes:

leedslad

colm_mcm wrote: »

Oh, so you turn the key and absolutely nothing happens?

Like i said in the opening post sometimes it will turn over other times it wont

George Dalton

The ignition switch at the back of the barrel was a common problem on the Mk1 Avensis. I wonder is it the same part in the Rav4? I have never had to replace one in a Rav4 but we don't look after too many of them.

Should be very easy to diagnose as well if you can get the fault to occur when you have a multimeter to hand.

moodrater

leedslad wrote: »

Like i said in the opening post sometimes it will turn over other times it wont

You said "it doesn't want to know" that whats confusing people.

I thought the starter was turning but it wasn't starting which could be caused by weak starter as you need up to 300rpm to get rail pressure up.

If the starter isn't turning at all that really narrows it down.

Starter circuit is basically ignition switch red wire to terminals 1 & 5 of the starter relay - should be battery voltage with the key in start position, terminal 2 goes to ground and 3 to the starter solenoid. If your rav4 is automatic theres probably a lockout switch around the gear selector.

Starter solenoid needs more current to engage when hot so if you can hear the starter solenoid click when hot but its not engaging the starter you've probably got a bad connection in the relay, relay box or black and white wire to the solenoid.

leedslad

moodrater wrote: »

You said "it doesn't want to know" that whats confusing people.

I thought the starter was turning but it wasn't starting which could be caused by weak starter as you need up to 300rpm to get rail pressure up.

Sorry,I can see now how i clouded the issue.I'ts as i stated in the first post.
first thing in the morning ,starts first time every time.Drive a short distance and stop, will start again no prob.Drive for 30-45 min and stop,(eg diesel fill stop)it wont start if i want to start within 5 min(starter turns but wont fire)but at this stage i know now if i leave it rest for another 10min that it will start.Does this make it any clearer?

moodrater

Get the diagnostics read If its behaving normally once started and driving its likely to be low rail pressure when starting hot.

Low rail pressure is likely to be injectors, pump, pressure valve on the pump or less lightly the pressure sensor is reporting the incorrect pressure.

Do injector leak off test if injectors are ok then I'd suspect the pressure control valve or surge control valve SCV as toyota call it and the pressure pump.

Often the garage will replace the pump along with the injectors and if you go to toyota they will want to replace the high pressure pipes too.

A dodgy injector or two is top of my list anyway.