P W Mullins

culline

One of the worst Jockeys in the game, watch bumper at Thurles today, No idea of pace or anything, hits the horse repeatedly with his whip in the wrong hand, continues to race on worst ground on inside of track. Awful.

p.s- his nag was last leg of acca

Johner

Why did you back him so if you don't rate him? Anyone who backs an un raced 2/5 shot deserves to lose in fairness. Looks to me like the horse didn't handle the ground.

Oscars Well.

I'm not a fan of him either. He has an impressive strike rate in bumpers but he's riding the best horses continously

culline

To be honest I felt like an eejit backing it but backed it at 4/7, along with 4/7 & 3/1 winners so just wanted to enhance the price with an easy bumpr win...alas...
Coming back to Mullins, I have nothing against the guy, his ride on Cousin Vinny at Chelt was superb but he really isn't up to it and I don't expect him to be nearly as good as Townend & Co even with Daddy's embarrassment of riches.

Plentyofice

:mad:There's validity in some of your points . He's a nice lad but not a patch on the likes of Nina, Katie or RP on getting the pace spot on. I know they think alot of Deneuve and I lost me Bo**ocks at 8/11 but that's horse racing. Twice in the last week I could have burst Paul Carberry for being such a cocky prick. Firstly on Dylan Ross he acted the twat and didn;t let the horse go soon enough. How can you expect a horse to pick up in 100 yards in pure sh1te ground. He then rode Dante's king at Fairyhouse. Same ould sh1t. Cruising into the straight in 3rd and rather than run up along side the front two he pulled in behind, horse loses sight of the fence at the second last, finishes almost down on his nose and has no chance of catching the front 2 now.
Anyway rant over. I have 3 jocks I try to avoid backing the horses their riding too much.
1. P W
2. Paul Carberry on beginner chases etc as he's a messer
3. Geraghty can have the odd clanger but is generally good (see Oscar Whiskey and Grandouet this year- from the sublime to the slurry !)

solerina

culline wrote: »

I don't expect him to be nearly as good as Townend & Co even with Daddy's embarrassment of riches.

I dont think he even considers himself to be as good as Paul T, PWM is too tall and big in general to ever turn professional anyway

culline

will be interesting to see how he gets on in the bumper in limerik, prove me wrong paddy!

Oscars Well.

Wins by 12 lenghts.

mr.jingle

culline wrote: »

will be interesting to see how he gets on in the bumper in limerik, prove me wrong paddy!

Suppose he's a great jockey now:rolleyes::rolleyes:

3 from 4 bumper rides this week and of course the only one i backed was Champagne Fever:(

culline

nicely ridden PW! desperate day in limerick aswell! heard champagne fever was bumper good thing aswel

hucklebuck

Very harsh posts, he is not the worst and I would not hesitate in backing him in a bumper.

Agree on Carberry, sick of the twat he does the shame **** every time I seem to back him and wins when I don't!!

Shane732

As to how you can compare Paul Carberry and Paddy Mullins is beyond me. Let's be honest if Paddy didn't have the stable behind him then there isn't a hope he'd be winning any amateur titles. The only reason I'd back Paddy is because I think the horse is good enough to carry him around in front of everything else. He can't judge a race at all and he's awful in a finish. Ok you'll be able to good up with examples of where he's given a horse a good ride but with the stable he has behind you expect that.

Carberry on the other hand is a quality rider. Ok he has his downsides but on his day he's quality. He's a great judge of a race and a proper horseman.

hucklebuck

Shane732 wrote: »

As to how you can compare Paul Carberry and Paddy Mullins is beyond me. Let's be honest if Paddy didn't have the stable behind him then there isn't a hope he'd be winning any amateur titles. The only reason I'd back Paddy is because I think the horse is good enough to carry him around in front of everything else. He can't judge a race at all and he's awful in a finish. Ok you'll be able to good up with examples of where he's given a horse a good ride but with the stable he has behind you expect that.

Carberry on the other hand is a quality rider. Ok he has his downsides but on his day he's quality. He's a great judge of a race and a proper horseman.

They both get good horses in the last 12 months Patrick Mullins has a strike rate of 25.71% compared with Carberrys 14.31% so save the on his day nonsense, Carberry gets more decent horses beaten than Mullins.

Shane732

hucklebuck wrote: »

They both get good horses in the last 12 months Patrick Mullins has a strike rate of 25.71% compared with Carberrys 14.31% so save the on his day nonsense, Carberry gets more decent horses beaten than Mullins.

Ah that's just twisting stats to suit your opinion.

Carberry doesn't get more decent horses beaten than Mullins. I think that's completely ridiculous - Mullins rides top quality horses day in day out. Yes Carberry does get good horses but he also has his fair share of mediocre horses and nags as well.

Shane732

Also you're comparing stats of primarily bumper races to hurdles/fences races, again something you can't compare.

Look at how many short prices horses Mullins has gotten beaten. Look at how many seconds and thirds Mullins has been on - in a lot of cases horses that looked for all the world that they were going to win.

Colonel Sanders

P Mullins goes in again on another steering job

Gigginstown purchase ran ok for a horse who cost 325k. Maybe needs better ground and an extreme trip already

hucklebuck

Shane732 wrote: »

Ah that's just twisting stats to suit your opinion.

Carberry doesn't get more decent horses beaten than Mullins. I think that's completely ridiculous - Mullins rides top quality horses day in day out. Yes Carberry does get good horses but he also has his fair share of mediocre horses and nags as well.

I like the way you don't make an allowance for Pro V Amateur. I am fully aware of that but I was making the point I would back Mullins ahead of Carberry every day of the week.

Carberry gets loads of short priced horses beaten and why do you suspect that Carberry doesn't get more decent horses? He gets them beaten, he is too fond of the drink and winning on the bridle. He had an absolutely shocking ride (think it was a short priced fav) druring the week, going along on the bridle coming to the last and managed to get beaten by a jockey who was hard at work for a while. I will try remember the name of the horse.

Compare Carberrys stats to the other top jockeys and see how good he really is. Carberry is the biggest waste of natural talent in the game.

Morgans

It wasnt on Cross Appeal, one of the very best rides of the last fortnight.

Carberry gets a lot of insults from bottom feeders in bookies who want him to lash horses out of it. I watched and thankfully backed Lord Windermere when he outbattled Dylan Ross early last month at Punchestown, and there were plenty cursing Carberry that he waited too long. All sorts of names thrown at him.

The fact was that Dylan Ross was asked to go and win his race after the last, when 1/2l down with plenty of time to pick up, but the horse didnt want to know. The exact same thing happened him at Leopardstown over christmas, where again the horse was outbattled.

All jockeys make mistakes, from P.W. Mullins to Ruby, but if you removed pocket talk, the amount of horses that lose races due to poor jockeyship would be less than one a week in my opinion. Thousand Stars was beaten by the better horse on the day - but pocket talk has somehow got it into people's heads that Ruby was the cause of the defeat. Carberry's style gives more opportunities for idiots in bookies to throw things at the screen, but I wouldnt change to please them.

You arent wrong about his drinking (supposedly in the past now) and not reaching his potential.

hucklebuck

Morgans wrote: »

It wasnt on Cross Appeal, one of the very best rides of the last fortnight.

Carberry gets a lot of insults from bottom feeders in bookies who want him to lash horses out of it. I watched and thankfully backed Lord Windermere when he outbattled Dylan Ross early last month at Punchestown, and there were plenty cursing Carberry that he waited too long. All sorts of names thrown at him.

The fact was that Dylan Ross was asked to go and win his race after the last, when 1/2l down with plenty of time to pick up, but the horse didnt want to know. The exact same thing happened him at Leopardstown over christmas, where again the horse was outbattled.

All jockeys make mistakes, from P.W. Mullins to Ruby, but if you removed pocket talk, the amount of horses that lose races due to poor jockeyship would be less than one a week in my opinion. Thousand Stars was beaten by the better horse on the day - but pocket talk has somehow got it into people's heads that Ruby was the cause of the defeat. Carberry's style gives more opportunities for idiots in bookies to throw things at the screen, but I wouldnt change to please them.

You arent wrong about his drinking (supposedly in the past now) and not reaching his potential.

For me Carberry always has to try be cocky rather than just win the race, time and time again you see him arrive on the bridle alongside horses who are under serious pressure, he generally waits until after the final flight before unleashing the horse.

IMO he would win more if he rode the horse into the final flight and hit the far side running that putting in a slow one hoping his horse will respond and outbattle the other horses, the other option it to keep the horse covered until he is ready to unleash him rather than spending a furlong or two eyeballing the other horses and jockies. Simply put there are horses you definately do not want to eyeball and other jockies won't want to be beaten by you if you keep doing it.

Dylan Ross is a good example, he is very slick over his hurdles at pace so I can't understand why he doesnt ride him into the last so he hits the grounds running and should win from there.

It's a real shame, sure he drinks/ drank, if you take away the arrogance he could have been one of the greats.

Great ride on Cross Appeal, I just don't understand why he doesn't do more of that rather than trying to win on the bridle.

I don't know if the Ruby thing was aimed at me, if it was all I said was I could not understand the change in tactics for Thousand Stars and it was a clever ride from Townend boxing him in on the final bend.

RichieLawlor

Carberry doesn't try to win on the bridle, he I an excellent horseman, one o the very best who gets everything out of his horse without throwing the kitchen sink at them.

Morgans

I do think that the vast vast majority of the time the horses aren't good enough. Dylan Ross is a good example, found absolutely nothing for pressure again at Leopardstown having winged the last and landed upsides. He was beaten by two better horses in his last two races. Just because he is favourite, doesnt mean that he should win.

Carberry doesnt ride all horses the same way either, he rode another fantastic race yesterday from the front on Osirixamix. If he was holding up horses that prefer to lead, it would be a very valid criticism. Horse looked like he didnt know it had a race yesterday.

I dont think he is perfect and its hard to gauge how much his horses have left in the tank - Muirhead was probably all out at Limerick when winning the Munster National - but Carberry didnt have to move a muscle on him. People tend to use the amount of movement from the jockey as to the speed and effort of the horse.

Still one of the very best for me.

hucklebuck

Morgans wrote: »

I do think that the vast vast majority of the time the horses aren't good enough. Dylan Ross is a good example, found absolutely nothing for pressure again at Leopardstown having winged the last and landed upsides. He was beaten by two better horses in his last two races. Just because he is favourite, doesnt mean that he should win.

Dylan Ross looked better a few races back when he was asked to quicken a few out and pinged the last and could be eased down, granted it was a lower grade race but he looked better hurdling.

Morgans wrote: »

Carberry doesnt ride all horses the same way either, he rode another fantastic race yesterday from the front on Osirixamix. If he was holding up horses that prefer to lead, it would be a very valid criticism. Horse looked like he didnt know it had a race yesterday.

I know he doesn't but Osirixamix is a front runner and was a steering job in fairness, the race before he was going to win as he liked and give a hammering to poor auld Golden Silver (I know it was his first run) only he never came up at the last. On ratings Golden Silver should have beaten him 26 lengths yet Osirixamix looked to be going on to win by an easy 6.

Morgans wrote: »

I dont think he is perfect and its hard to gauge how much his horses have left in the tank - Muirhead was probably all out at Limerick when winning the Munster National - but Carberry didnt have to move a muscle on him. People tend to use the amount of movement from the jockey as to the speed and effort of the horse.

Still one of the very best for me.

Thats a fair point but other jockeys arrive on the bridle and their horses can find plenty, sure some don't find much but don't we will never know with Carberry.

My point was I would be reluctant to back anything he is on and would be more likely to back P Mullins, my only bet on Carberry in the last 3 months or so was Osirixamix yesterday.

Morgans

Osirixamix was 4/1 yesterday. It is very very easy to say that they are steering jobs after they win. There was an equally well handicapped horse up against him. Had he won, it would also have been a "steering job".

No one is forcing you to back Carberry. If you prefer to back PW Mullins, that's your decision. Those who decide he is a poor jockey using Dylan Ross as an example know who rides the horse before the race. Those who think that riding him any different would make him beat Lord Windermere or Cash and Go I believe are wrong.

Harchibald beating Rooster Booster at Kempton a few years ago is up there with the very very best rides Ive ever seen. Id entertain arguements that it was the best ride of the past decade.

Morgans

Cant see how Im being unfair on Orisixamix at all. I backed him without Golden Silver at Cork, and thought he wasnt off a yard when Noble Prince beat him first time out. I backed him yesterday. It doesnt mean that he was a steering job. THe runner-up has been set up for a handicap hurdle tilt for a long time - pulled out of one at Leopardstown due to ground at christmas. All I said that its easy to call steering jobs after they win. I thought he had a fine chance yesterday but you do not get many known steering jobs starting at 4/1 before the race. He got a class ride and could run tomorrow Carberry was so gentle on him.

hucklebuck

The horse appears well ahead of the handicapper and has a serious engine, given what he looked like doing to Golden Silver before the last it was a no brainer to me backing him again.

As you said yourself just because a horse is a favourite doesn't mean he should win.

By any chance do you have a link to Harchi V Rooster Booster? It's been a long time since I have seen it and can't find anything on Youtube.

convert

If something can't be substantiated, then it shouldn't be posted here. I've deleted a number of posts in this thread because of the content, and when I have the time I'll edit them and undelete them. But until then I'm closing this thread as it's gone way off topic.