Thinking of buying an alfa 159

pred racer

I am going to change my car in jan/feb i had made up my mind to get a new model c5 (2.0 exclusive with hydractive)

But in the last couple of weeks ive been thinking more and more of getting a 159 instead ( mainly cause they are fuppin gorgeous)

What do ye think? Im farly well clued up on the citroen models, trim levels etc. Not so much with the alfas, it'll be a diesel 16v but lusso? Sportivo? Anyone know the major differences? Ive tried searching for it but im confused now

Seen this one in auto trader this morning:D
http://www.autotrader.ie/search/Alfa-Romeo/159/1.9-JTDM/201149206040947/advert?channel=CARS

It would be in budget( just about)
What do ye think?

So my heart is telling me c5 or 159, but my head is telling me "just buy a bloody mondeo" in the uk they are 2k cheaper than the above and a good car.

This is strange for me, normally when its time to change i know exactly what i want and just go buy it:rolleyes:

All help appreciated and sorry for the long winded post.

Ardennes1944

The 159 is a fine car and is just as reliable as a mondeo these days, although you may want to treat it with just a fraction more care to get the best return. If your budget allows, get the lusso. It is the a higher spec than the sportivo and the leather seats in the lusso are beautiful! I havent opened your link but the diesel comes in 3 forms. A 120bhp 8v 1.9 and a 150 16v 1.9 and of course the rare 2.4 diesel. The 8v valve is much more reliable than the 16v and doesnt suffer as many of the modern diesel problems. Although once you arent doing all short trips in toen both will be fine.

The 159 is a very pretty car, especially the front end, buy something different and you'll be glad

pajo1981

Apart from the head-on view, I think the 159 has dated badly.

Ardennes1944

Ardennes1944 wrote: »

........... buy something different and you'll be glad

The C5 is different
I think the C5s are gorgeous, bigger can than the 159 too. The 159 does have a dated look to it I reckon, looks 156 ish which is no bad thing but it's a bit dated as said.

166man

Screw the mondeo, go for the 159 for sure. There is a nice one for sale on donedeal last time I checked with leather etc and only 60k miles. I don't have the link though.

As for spec well the main four that I have heard of are Sportivo, Executive, Lusso and then the TI spec.

Sportivo/Turismo- Cars badged Sportivo are usually a lower spec but still get elec windows etc, but you don't want this because chances are it won't have leather and of course, can't have an Alfa without leather!

Executive- this is a strange spec alright, can be really hit and miss in terms if equipment. Some models have alloys,leather, climate and so on yet amazingly other Executive models have no alloys, no leather and no climate control. Bizarre really.

Lusso- This and the TI models are usually higher specced and come with leather,climate and nice wheels as standard afaik. Try find one if you can.


TI- this is the model with the sports suspension, sports seats, bodykit etc. Looks great and most seem to have leather or really grippy suede and leather combination. Quite rare in Ireland though.

As for engine choice, unsurprisingly diesel is the engine of choice here. The 5 pot 2.4 JTDM engine is a peach but again very rare here due to higher tax and running costs. Most people go for the 1.9JTDM which is available in either 8v 120bhp or 16v 150bhp output. I have heard of a few problems with the 16v engine though nothing yet about the 8v. My father has a 159 SW with the 120bhp engine remapped to 150bhp. The extra power does help and is noticeable overtaking and taking off from low speed but other than that the standard 120 is fine for most people.

Near 40k km in one year and not so much as a rattle has developed. Great car in almost aspect and average fuel economy hovers around 42mpg. I wrote a thread a while back giving pro's and con's so a quick search might bring that up.

Other than that go for it OP, but make sure she has a FSH. Fantastic car!

kc66

Was looking at that Alfa myself, very tempted. Also as mentioned there is a nice one on donedeal for under €6850 but its a 1.9 petrol. I see the mpg is quite a bit less than the 1.9 diesel (around 15mpg less). Have to take one for a spin soon.

Ardennes1944

the 1.9 was discontinued, mainly because its not much quicker than the 1.8 and the mpg is much worse.


i know the c5 is different but it was more in regard to the mondeo

Hotwheels

On my third 159 JTDm, they are excellent mile munchers and a nice place to be, they can be heavy on tyre's. 17" fair better than 18" or 19" mileage wise. And Pocket wise too

Top Arms can show signs of wear around 25-30Km, DPF's have caused problems, mostly associated with short journeys. But a good blast every now and then keeps it all cleared out

Of the three I preferred the Lusso, The Ti is nice, but a bit firm for Irish roads, The Lusso has cruise control, leather, rain sensing wipers etc...

Expect about 41-47MPG Real world figures, Servicing is not overly expensive and they love twisty roads.

Best of luck with the car, make sure to get a proper Alfa Mech to check it out, not someone who thinks he is...

R.O.R

We had a couple of Diesel 159's on fleet and didn't really have any trouble with them (1x8v, 1x16v). The power steering pump went on the 16v, but was replaced FOC by Alfa even though it was out of warranty at that stage. Also had to replace 2 boot struts in the same car as the plastic end caps broke (due to someone being over eager when opening the boot). Don't think we could just get hold of the end caps so had to get 2 whole struts.

Only issue we ever had with the 8v was when some clever person put petrol in it :rolleyes: That car went to various different driver's through it's time and was sold at 96,000km.

Also have 3xC5 2.0HDI Exclusive's. The 2009 one is around 125,000km now and had the fuse board replaced at 104k - nothing else out of the ordinary showing.

One of the 2011's hasn't been in for anything yet, but the one delivered in Feb is pushing 70,000km. Service at 22k, service & pads at 45k and 2 (badly worn) tyres at 38k. Suspect it's due another service shortly.


Wouldn't buy either of them myself though. Seat bottom is too long on the Alfa's for my likkle legs so it's uncomfortable to drive. I hate the stupid steering wheel in the C5 with a passion and it always feels like you sitting on the car rather than in the car - same for every French car I've driven over the past few years. Might suit others though, so no reason not to buy.

pred racer

Thanks guys, lots of good info/ advice there, im leaning towards the the 159 very strongly now:D

On the one i linked do you think thats a good price? Id be looking for a straight sale (cant see anyone wanting an 11 year old c5 on their forecourt!)
Reckon there is any haggling room there? Ill have about 4.5k cash and will borrow whatever else i need.

If i want the c5 ill have to go to the uk, any exclusives here are way overpriced.

No mondeo fans here then:)

EPM

The Mondeo in basic Edge or Zetec is quite boring. However in Titanium X spec with the right wheels it's a really good looking car. The Alfas interior isnt as good looking as older models imo and with the right extras the Mondeos dash can look as good. The Mondeo is nicer to drive, again imo. However they are everywhere. A 2 litre diesel Titamium X with a wheel upgrade is still a smart motor though.

166man

EPM wrote: »

The Mondeo in basic Edge or Zetec is quite boring. However in Titanium X spec with the right wheels it's a really good looking car. The Alfas interior isnt as good looking as older models imo and with the right extras the Mondeos dash can look as good. The Mondeo is nicer to drive, again imo. However they are everywhere. A 2 litre diesel Titamium X with a wheel upgrade is still a smart motor though.

I can't agree with you on that EPM, even with the satnav screen the Mondeo's interior isn't a match for the 159. Different class as you posted yesterday..

166man

166man wrote: »

............ Different class as you posted yesterday..

So the interior of a well specced Mondeo can't be as good as that in a 159?

EPM

166man wrote: »

I can't agree with you on that EPM, even with the satnav screen the Mondeo's interior isn't a match for the 159. Different class as you posted yesterday..

It's a different class, but the Mondeo is a superior car to the 159 simple as. The interior of a high spec Mondeo is very decent. The Alfa is nice in the correct spec too but feels quite cheap in places. The indicators and cruise stalks feel and look like lego for example.

Ardennes1944

I think the interior of the 159 is much nicer than the 156. My only gripes with it would be the steering wheel, the steering wheel buttons and the ugly gearstick.

pdmc

The new C5 is an interesting and good-looking car, but despite the Germanic, Teutonic looks and advertising, it's still a Citroen. This for me rules it out instantly. Sorry Citroen.

EPM wrote: »

It's a different class, but the Mondeo is a superior car to the 159 simple as. The interior of a high spec Mondeo is very decent. The Alfa is nice in the correct spec too but feels quite cheap in places. The indicators and cruise stalks feel and look like lego for example.

The 159 is quite literally a different class. The Mondeo sits in the large family car / fleet car category for which it was purposely designed. The 159 sits in the Compact Executive, or if you prefer, the Sporting Saloon category which A.R. basically invented (Alfa were building compact sports saloons while BMW were still building Isetta bubble cars) which it was specifically designed to compete in.

I.M.O. the 159 looks far better than the Mondeo (subjective I know) as the design language is more timelessly elegant and the detailing more subtle. Compare the door handles or tail lights of a 159 to those of the Mondeo for example. The Alfa door handle is memorable, unique; the Mondeo's items could be taken from any Ford or almost any other similar mainstream manufacturer’s product. The Alfa tail lights glow brightly and purposefully, while the Mondeos produce three miserable little glimmers from each of the four separate lamps. This always strikes me as cheap looking and I do wonder how they ever passed type approval in any market.

The Alfa has a far stronger presence than the Ford with more attractive, opulent and unusual down-road-graphics of the front end, compared to the more generic and samey lines of the Mondeo. While some of you think the 159 is dated (I'm not sure why) the 159 design is cleaner and looks more balanced. The Mondeo will ultimately date more over time as it is more ubiquitous, clumsier and more overwrought than the Alfa (I concede that the Mondeo hatch is much better proportioned than the saloon). The Alfa employs crisp clean lines with surprise and delight detailing where the Mondeo opts for deep suage lines on the flanks and multifaceted surfaces all around - trendy for a time, but becoming old-hat very fast. The Mondeo is the 'busy' to the Alfa's 'cool'.

For me Ford says 'everyman', which was Henry's mission from day one as history tells us. The Alfa on the other hand is a car produced by the company where Enzo Ferrari learned his craft. They build genuinely special cars that make every drive an occasion. The Mondeo is a thoroughly competent, well sorted, nicely made and fine handling car... but in the company of the 159, it just looks and feels common. Every time you glance at that famous 'Biscione' logo on the steering wheel, or the instruments or on the key, you'll feel like you've bought something special. Will the blue oval script make you feel like that?

On the issue of interior plastic cheapness, so long as the stalks operate as they should and do not snap off in your hand I wouldn't worry about the grade of polymer they were moulded from. I've sat in a few Mondeos and I've never been blown away by the materials used - the Mazda 6 (the Mondeo's close relative) can even boast a better interior. To me the Mondeo dash always seemed pretty nasty and the 'metal effect' plastics are both overused and over-chromed. Although I have never liked the heavy-handedness of the dash in the 159 (the late model 156 interiors were prettier with more modern aircon controls) it's still a more pleasing place to sit than the Mondeo. More importantly, when you glance out your window at the car, you won't be looking at or thinking about the plastics used to make the steering column stalks or in the hidden cubbies and recesses.

If you do decide to buy one, go for the Sportivo or Lusso spec. Avoid the poverty-spec Turismo as they usually have smaller (miserable looking) alloy wheels, a toy like aircon control panel, Alfa-tex cloth seats and some even do without the front fog lights. The TI is stunning but the ride of most TI models is a little on the harsh side. The Lusso will be the most compliant over the jittery surfaces with the Sportivo falling somewhere in between. Leather is desirable - Alfa leather seats are beautiful ... they really do a superb leather interior.

If you want something safe and mainstream that people won't scrutinise, question or ridicule you for, buy the Mondeo.

However, I'd advise that you buy the Alfa because provided you're willing to maintain it properly, you won't be sorry. We all deserve something to give us a little lift in everyday life and an Alfa Romeo is something that can do that. I've had three 156's and I currently have a GT 1.9 JTDm ... and despite all the horror stories that people who've never owned one like to trot out, not one of these cars has ever let me down.

But then again, as I'm always very willing to openly admit where others are not, I'm completely biased.

Tazio

Pretty good reviews above from 166man, R.O.R., Hotwheels and pdmc tbh.

Hey OP we have both a Ti and Lusso spec-ed 159's in the family.... if I'm honest, the Lusso is an easier car to live with everyday from a ride point of view. The Ti's 19" wheels coupled with the Ti suspension is harsh imo. But the Ti has a few more toys like heated seats etc..

Neither the petrol nor the diesel units are frugal.

I could write pages and pages of blurb here about servicing, known defects etc.. but as to whether you should buy one over the C5/Mondeo only you can decide....

But to me, sounds like you've your mind made up considering the thread title mentions the Alfa 159...


BTW, when you do buy one, don't forget to say hello over on the owners forum

pred racer

Tazio wrote: »

Pretty good reviews above from 166man, R.O.R., Hotwheels and pdmc tbh.

Hey OP we have both a Ti and Lusso spec-ed 159's in the family.... if I'm honest, the Lusso is an easier car to live with everyday from a ride point of view. The Ti's 19" wheels coupled with the Ti suspension is harsh imo. But the Ti has a few more toys like heated seats etc..

Neither the petrol nor the diesel units are frugal.

I could write pages and pages of blurb here about servicing, known defects etc.. but as to whether you should buy one over the C5/Mondeo only you can decide....

But to me, sounds like you've your mind made up considering the thread title mentions the Alfa 159...


BTW, when you do buy one, don't forget to say hello over on the owners forum

will do, i think you might have me sussed.

Epm makes a good point too, the mondeo is a nice car, but the 2L titanium would prob be equally as expensive as the 159/c5

Ive had my heart set on a new c5 for about a year, but then i drove one and it felt cramped and not as nice to drive compared to mine (01) which while being an aquired taste looks wise ( or butt ugly depending on who you talk to) has no peers in its class for comfort, ride and space imo.

Tea 1000

Ford interiors in general are not great. They wear quickly, and Titanium or not, a Mondeo is still not a good looking car, and the interior design is bland no matter how many buttons you peg at the dash. The Alfa interior is 2 leagues ahead in terms of styling.
F**k the Mondeo, they're everywhere. You want a good chassis, get a Mazda 6, you want style get a 159. Job done.

166man

EPM wrote: »

It's a different class, but the Mondeo is a superior car to the 159 simple as. The interior of a high spec Mondeo is very decent. The Alfa is nice in the correct spec too but feels quite cheap in places. The indicators and cruise stalks feel and look like lego for example.

Mondeo on paper is superior to the Alfa, but it still wouldn't bother me. I just think that the interior of the Mondeo was dated from the minute it came out. The Alfa interior still looks great in my opinion, other than the indicators, there aren't too many other cheap materials in the cabin.

pred racer

Ok im convinced.......159 it is

Now lads have a look at the one i linked to in the op.
Id rather a red one, but black would do nicely.

What do ye think of the car and the price?
What do you think i could get it for on a straight deal?
Im thinkin the price is quite good already.

1 problem is that i haven't driven one yet so all this is subject to change;)

166man

The one you have linked to is nice but the mileage is a little high, good spec though and should the FSH check out it could be a good buy. Probably get a couple of hundred quid off too.



http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2808596

I like this one though, it has 40k less miles and the same spec with nicer wheels.

pajo1981

Fúck it. +1 on the C5. The 159 will disappoint and who gives a shít about mondeos.

Lex Luthor

166man wrote: »

The one you have linked to is nice but the mileage is a little high, good spec though and should the FSH check out it could be a good buy. Probably get a couple of hundred quid off too.



http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2808596

I like this one though, it has 40k less miles and the same spec with nicer wheels.

whats going on with the clocks over the stereo? Is one of them hanging out?

EPM

That's the Parrot controller.

Hotwheels

EPM wrote: »

That's the Parrot controller.

Round thingy looks like a jaffa cake to me
Car has Blue&me, should work with nearly all phones, some will read txt to you too...

pburns

I was gonna suggest a Legacy diesel but **** they're more expensive than a 159:
http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=413210302742940

And yeah I'm biased...
I did drive a 159 when changing and although I loved the looks I found even the most powerful 1.9 diesel a bit sluggish. Weakness of the 159 is it's a heavy platform.

As an ownership proposition though that doesn't necessarily matter. They are apparantly reliable, great value and gorgeous.

Celly Smunt

pburns wrote: »

I was gonna suggest a Legacy diesel but **** they're more expensive than a 159:
http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=413210302742940

And yeah I'm biased...
I did drive a 159 when changing and although I loved the looks I found even the most powerful 1.9 diesel a bit sluggish. Weakness of the 159 is it's a heavy platform.

As an ownership proposition though that doesn't necessarily matter. They are apparantly reliable, great value and gorgeous.

It's a sin to buy a Diesel alfa.

166man

pmcmahon wrote: »

It's a sin to buy a Diesel alfa.

Not when they are superior to the petrol engines available.

pred racer

pmcmahon wrote: »

It's a sin to buy a Diesel alfa.

Not when you cant afford to run a petrol:)

Matt Simis

Ive had a 2.4JTDm 159 SW on my mind for a long while, one day (to replace my OH's 156 SW). The Mondeo is dull and boring and the C5, while more interesting and a looker when launched (with its overtly but sellout "it looks like an Audi now" marking campaign) but definitely has aged more than the 159, IMO of course but Im surprised by some of the comments above. Granted the 159 also doesnt look as fresh anymore, but underneath it all its a nicely stanced and proportioned car:



Do Ford or Citroen have a 2.4JTDm (high 40s mpg with 210-230BHP pending tune, stock) competitor engine?

The Mondeo 2.2 st diesel yoke might well be not far off that after fettling.

Lex Luthor

Matt Simis wrote: »

Do Ford or Citroen have a 2.4JTDm (high 40s mpg with 210-230BHP pending tune, stock) competitor engine?

Matt, i dont think high 40's is possible. I got an avg of 43 with the GT 1.9jtdm and had a 159 2.4 on trial for a couple of days and only got mid to high 30's

Lex Luthor

pburns wrote: »

I was gonna suggest a Legacy diesel but **** they're more expensive than a 159:
http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=413210302742940

Is that the highest mileage boxer diesel in the country? Good to know there is one that nearly reached 200k km. Wonder if it had any issues?

pburns

Lex Luthor wrote: »

Is that the highest mileage boxer diesel in the country? Good to know there is one that nearly reached 200k km. Wonder if it had any issues?

Think I've seen one or two about with similar mileage. Dunno if any issues, doubt they're much better or worse than any other modern diesels - DMF, particulate filter etc.

Lex Luthor

pburns wrote: »

Think I've seen one or two about with similar mileage. Dunno if any issues, doubt they're much better or worse than any other modern diesels - DMF, particulate filter etc.

Mine just tipped the 50k km recently. Gear change has now completely loosened up. Took it up north recently and averaged 5.8l/100km but thats rare