Would you sell your soul?

Peregrinus

It appears here that a surprising number of atheists are reluctant to sell their souls, even for hard cash, and one who was willing only agreed to do so on terms that he was free to sell it again to someone else, which implies an unusual understanding of the word "sell", I think.

Would you be willing, for actual cash, to sign a contract selling your soul in a final and conclusive transaction? And, if not, why not?

http://www.freakonomics.com/2011/12/08/from-the-comments-who-wants-to-sell-a-soul/

magicbastarder

people don't like the idea because 'selling your soul' is usually used in a metaphorical context for selling out or becoming someone you wouldn't have liked to become, so it's a loaded question. maybe rephrasing it would alter the outcome?

Beruthiel

Peregrinus wrote: »

Would you be willing, for actual cash, to sign a contract selling your soul in a final and conclusive transaction?

If you are talking about an actual soul, then sure, someone happy to pay me big bucks for something imaginary can have it.

If you are talking about my moral code (which is what I consider a 'soul' to be), then it would have to be a LOT of big bucks.

yeppydeppy

You looking for a soul? I'll sell you mine no problem - how much you willing to pay?

Jimoslimos

Not sure what the ownership laws regarding souls are, since the CC still have mine apparently.:(

Is it some sort of lease or HP agreement?

MrFrisp

Mine is already sold....

The irish government have sold it to the e.u./e.m.f.

I didn't even get a choice...






.

lar203

i'd sell my body and soul if the price was right

Michael Nugent

Peregrinus wrote: »

...and one who was willing only agreed to do so on terms that he was free to sell it again to someone else, which implies an unusual understanding of the word "sell", I think.

Sounds like he is proposing a licensing agreement. Perhaps the soul is like a computer operating system.

Peregrinus

Michael Nugent wrote: »

Sounds like he is proposing a licensing agreement. Perhaps the soul is like a computer operating system.

So he was willing to license his soul, but not sell it outright.

Obviously he thinks it has a residual value!

pH

This doesn't surprise me, as humans are social animals and our actions are judged by others. It would be a huge mistake to believe that an atheist's reluctance to "sell their soul" was in some way evidence that deep down they believed they had one.

It reminds me of a book where the author is going on about a class of students' problem with wearing a cardigan he claimed had belonged to Fred West - reasoning that this meant that they all believed that objects could be imbued somehow with spirits or something supernatural remained.

Well no - we're social animals - and we have the ability to infer what others might think of our actions - and even though I certainly don't believe in any supernatural effects from wearing a cardigan of Fred West's, I'm sure that this action would be seen negatively by my friends, family and colleagues and as such I'd be reluctant to wear it - because of what others might infer in meant about me - however illogical they may be.

It's the same with "selling my soul", I'm 100% convinced I don't have one, but is $10 enough for the social stigma of those believing that I do judging me and treating me differently because they know what I did? I'm not so sure.

Everyone important in my life knows I'm an atheist, but some are religious, and would treat the idea that I'd sold my soul quite seriously if they heard about it.

That said, if there were no implications in "real life", I personally would take $10 of people on the net who wanted to buy my soul.

Ellis Dee

Since there is no such thing as a soul, I'd be more than willing to sell one to anyone who is eejit enough to pay me for it.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

By the way, does anyone know when is the best time to sell an oceanfront plot to a tourist?

Answer:

When the tide is out

Jimoslimos

I would.....but the profit made would probably be offset by not being able to walk properly, not having shoes that fit, etc:(

Charlie3dan

To cut to the heart of the question; Atheists are capable of spirituality, without having to believe in A God.

Also, did you not see what happened when Bart sold his soul. Automatic doors not opening? That'd be pretty damn annoying.

Tin Foil Hat

Maybe some people won't perform like seals for small amounts of money.

Peregrinus

pH wrote: »

This doesn't surprise me, as humans are social animals and our actions are judged by others. It would be a huge mistake to believe that an atheist's reluctance to "sell their soul" was in some way evidence that deep down they believed they had one . . .

I don’t think it is evidence of a “secret belief”, and I wasn’t going to suggest that. I intended the thread as something light-hearted that nevertheless just might give rise to one or two interesting ideas.

It seems to me that there’s a few reasons why atheists might decline to sell their souls.

1. Value. The soul, if it exists as postulated, is worth a great deal more than $50 (which is what was offered). Even if the seller doesn’t believe in a soul, he knows the buyer does, so the buyer ought to be willing to offer more.

2. Pascal’s wager. Just maybe the soul is real, so you’re better off not selling it. The problem here is that an atheist has, by definition, already rejected Pascal’s wager with respect to the existence of God. So why would we think he might accept it with respect to the existence of the soul?

3. It’s fraudulent to sell a soul if you believe that it doesn’t exist and/or cannot be transferred. But fraud requires dishonesty. If you make it clear to the buyer that you believe your soul doesn’t exist, you’re not defrauding him. Plus, this guy says he found several atheists willing to sell him their sense of humour, which equally cannot be transferred.

4. Even if it’s not fraudulent, taking money from somebody when you don’t believe he is getting anything in return (even though he does believe that) is exploiting his ignorance/credulity, and you’re not comfortable doing that. But, again, that wouldn’t explain people willing to sell their sense of humour, but not their souls.

5. The buyer is behaving unethically. If he believes in the existence of the soul, then he ought not to be attempting to buy one. At least subjectively, his position is immoral, and you don’t want to co-operate with it.

6. The offer is a joke, and for whatever reason you don’t find it funny.

7. “Selling your soul”, as magicbastarder points out, has a powerful metaphorical meaning, and you don’t want to associate yourself with it.

It’s interesting that there are lots of atheists/agnostics on this board willing to answer “yes”, even if in jest, whereas the guy who made the original offer claimed that he had difficulty finding any. I’ve no reason to doubt his claim. What may be at work here is the difference between Irish and American discourse, the Irish being more ready to treat something as a joke and the Americans being a bit cagier about that.

Zombrex

Interesting question.

I know plenty of atheists who won't donate their eyes if they die. They freely admit that this isn't a rational belief, but it is the thought of having your eyes removed that makes them feel uncomfortable.

The concept of a soul might be similar, the notion that selling your soul is an uncomfortable one even if you don't rationally believe in a soul.

strobe

Peregrinus wrote: »

It’s interesting that there are lots of atheists/agnostics on this board willing to answer “yes”, even if in jest, whereas the guy who made the original offer claimed that he had difficulty finding any. I’ve no reason to doubt his claim.

You have no reason to believe his claim either, of course.

There was a 'campaign' run before where people (mainly americans) appeared in video clips and 'blasphemed against the holy spirit' with lots of responses. Considering they had absolutely nothing to be gained from doing so I doubt it would be too difficult to find people that would be willing to do it for 50 bucks or by extension people who were willing to sell their soul for 50 bucks.

Set up a stall in Dublin or in NYC with contracts to sign and 50's on the table and I very much doubt you would be going home with any cash on hand.

(I know that the meaning of 'blaspheming against the holy spirit' is open to interpretation btw.)

im invisible

I heard of a guy who used to sell a bit of hash a while ago, if you wanted some, but didnt have the money, he would take posession of your soul untill you paid him, had the added benefit for him that people couldnt sell their soul twice to him, without paying off the debt.

kylith

If you can find it, I'll sell it to you.

cavedave

Peregrinus

It seems to me that there’s a few reasons why atheists might decline to sell their souls.

1. Value. The soul, if it exists as postulated, is worth a great deal more than $50 (which is what was offered). Even if the seller doesn’t believe in a soul, he knows the buyer does, so the buyer ought to be willing to offer more.


7. “Selling your soul”, as magicbastarder points out, has a powerful metaphorical meaning, and you don’t want to associate yourself with it.

I think there are two more
8. In Irish law you cannot sign away your rights. You cannot AFAIK sign a form that says 'please kill me' and forfeit your right not to be killed. So if your soul grants you the certain rights you cannot sell it.

9. I think there is a principle in law that you cannot sell something you do not know the value of. In a similar way to someone who does not understand an operation cannot consent to it.

I am no lawyer though

Max Power1

Peregrinus wrote: »

one who was willing only agreed to do so on terms that he was free to sell it again to someone else, which implies an unusual understanding of the word "sell", I think.

if something doesnt exist (read quantity of said item = 0) - you can sell it over and over! The quantity will never diminish.

biko

Yes, if by soul you mean Christian soul.

Sarky

Selling something that doesn't exist is generally considered dishonest.

ShooterSF

As long as the buyer was aware that the soul may not exist and that I don't believe it does I'd sell it but I'd only sell it once to be fair to any buyer should it exist and so I'd expect a decent amount of change for it...

Sonics2k

Sounds like a job for C.M.O.T Dibbler

robindch

Sarky wrote: »

Selling something that doesn't exist is generally considered dishonest.

As is promising you you'll receive a payout when dead.

Knasher

I think if somebody came up to me, put me on the spot and asking me to sell, I would be hesitant. The reason for this is almost entirely irrational, the fact of the matter is I was brainwashed into believing this stuff for 90% of my life and there are remnants of that belief still lying around which I haven't yet addressed and overcome. I say almost entirely irrational because even though it rests on the unfounded assertions that a soul exists and that it is transferable, completely rejecting those assertions is necessarily a judgment which cannot be decided solely on evidence, and I've learned to approach those decisions with caution.

So after some consideration, I am now ready to sell. How much are you offering?

sephir0th

I would sell instantly, and repeatedly. It's not a dishonest transaction - the buyer knows what he/she is getting - something that exists in their imagination.

18AD

Not only would I sell my soul, but I'd sell you all my friend's souls. I'll even summon demon souls for you. It's kind of a hobby of mine.

Knasher

Oh, perhaps we could sell our souls to rich people with pets so they could take their pets to heaven with them.

Otherwise I'm kinda afraid the customer is looking for a way to commit crimes using their spare soul and not be held accountable.

sensibleken

all property is theft. Im squatting my soul!

recedite

I'm selling. BTW I also have some plots of land on Mars if you are interested. Only a few left. PM me.