Harvey Norman, Faulty laptop 3rd time for repair HELP

trick

I purchased a laptop in July 09 in Harvey Norman. I took out an extended warranty for the laptop so it is covered for 48 months. The total cost was €878 including warranty which cost approx €100.

In July 2010 the laptop stopped working a blue screen showed up. I brought it to Harvey Norman & they repaired the laptop.

All was fine again until February 2011 there were lines rising up the LCD screen & the fan was making a strange loud noise & the laptop appeared to overheat & then blue screen again. Harvey Norman sent the laptop off for repair the laptop was gone for approximately 5 weeks when it returned Sony had replaced the LCD screen & cleaned the fan, there was a receipt with the laptop for the repairs €270.09 (I wasn't liable for these as they were included in extended warranty)

Roll on December 2011 and the laptop is broken again. I brought it back to Harvey Norman & was told that the fan was 'burned out' and that 'Sony' wouldn't put anymore money into it' & I would get a 'refund'.
I received a call from Harvey Norman today to say that due to the fact that my extended warranty has been used for repair that there is only €400 left on my 'aggregate units' (not sure what this mesns) so they were willing to offer me only €400.
I explained that this was unacceptable that I know under consumer rights that I am entitled to a repair, replacement or refund & because this was the 3rd time that I could only accept a refund (I don't want a replacement laptop from them I would prefer to take my custom elsewhere after this hassle).
I just spoke with the manager & she said that it has nothing to do with consumer rights that it's to do with my extended warranty and that because it is half way through I'm not entitled to a full refund??? She said she would get back onto the extended warranty people to see if she can get more money for me.

My question is what am I entitled to? I don't want to have to get irate with them.
I explained I would take it to the small claims court & was informed that I could go ahead & do that but I would be waiting 3months for my laptop.

Thanks so much & looking forward to your reply.

Varik

trick wrote: »

she said that it has nothing to do with consumer rights that it's to do with my extended warranty and that because it is half way through I'm not entitled to a full refund??? She said she would get back onto the extended warranty people to see if she can get more money for me.

My question is what am I entitled to? I don't want to have to get irate with them.
I explained I would take it to the small claims court & was informed that I could go ahead & do that but I would be waiting 3months for my laptop.

Thanks so much & looking forward to your reply.

Don't press it for a while, you may get the money from them under the warranty, but you are entitled to a refund or replacement at this stage by law no matter what they say.

You will be waiting for an the scc so just wait a little bit longer now to see what happens with these extended warranty people.

dudara

You've had the laptop for 2.5 years, so you have to factor that into any offer of a repair, replacement or refund. Getting €400 back on an approx €800 purchase after 2.5 years doesn't seem bad.

However, I don't know what is written into the T&Cs of the extended warranty - and that will dictate a lot here.

trick

Dudara the laptop became faulty after 1 year & it's the same ongoing problem therefore it was never really repaired? I would think that because of this it would suggest the laptop is not fit for its purpose? Consumer rights website is vague so I would love to get my facts 100% if they call again.
I would be of the opinion that my statutory rights are not affected by having a warranty & it is completely separate to my consumer rights?

trick

Thanks Varik. That was what I was thinking.
I'll hang on to see what they say.

P. Breathnach

trick wrote: »

Dudara the laptop became faulty after 1 year & it's the same ongoing problem therefore it was never really repaired? I would think that because of this it would suggest the laptop is not fit for its purpose?

That's pushing the definition of not fit for for purpose. You had a functioning laptop for the greatest part of two-and-a-half years.

Consumer rights website is vague so I would love to get my facts 100% if they call again.
I would be of the opinion that my statutory rights are not affected by having a warranty & it is completely separate to my consumer rights?

Its true that a warranty cannot abrogate your statutory rights. But you need to consider what your entitlement is under the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act. Personally, I don't think a laptop would count as a consumer durable in the same way as a fridge might. Laptops generally don't last many years. In my (non-expert) opinion, a court would be likely to see Harvey Norman's offer as reasonable.

I agree with dudara: you should read the terms of the extended warranty.

dharn

one thing common to all laptops, is that if you leave them on many surfaces bed or soft chair etc the fan will get blocked and the laptop will overheat ,op has had 2 instances of overheating so may not be using the laptop properly the lcd screen was also replaced and they are now getting 400 back after 2.5 years so i dont think they are doing too bad,400 will buy a lot of computer nowadays

trick

Small claims court it will be then :-)
Thanks guys

trick

Dharn I use a laptop table at all times & it was a fault with the LCD screen (not my doing).
The laptop has worked for most part of 2.5 years BUT it has this ongoing fault and this is the 3rd time in 18months

wmpdd3

If you are hell bent on the SCC route, write to Harvey Norman and tell them you will not accept the offer of €400 and that you are exercising your right under the Sales of Goods and Services act 1980, to push for a (what ever you are looking for ie replacement, refund). This will give them a chance to reply to you and you will get an idea what they will say to the judge.

To be honest, I dont think you have a hope of getting more than €400 from the SCC, so keep us updated as you may prove us wrong.

Nonoperational

trick wrote: »

Small claims court it will be then :-)
Thanks guys

Firstly you don't have the right to demand a refund because you don't want to give them your business. But anyway, being offered €400 on a 2.5 year old laptop and refusing it and going to court is completely mad in my opinion. Good luck whatever the outcome.

dudara

gpf101 wrote: »

Firstly you don't have the right to demand a refund because you don't want to give them your business. But anyway, being offered €400 on a 2.5 year old laptop and refusing it and going to court is completely mad in my opinion. Good luck whatever the outcome.

I'm inclined to agree with this.

If you didn't have an extended warranty, a judge will evaluate based on the reasonable lifetime of the product. Given that the laptop is 2.5 years, he probably wouldn't order for a full refund. The whole thing is about being reasonable.

If I were you, I would read the T&Cs of the extended warranty, as that is the basis on which Harvey Norman are refunding you. There surely is something in the T&Cs about multiple repairs having an impact on your coverage. I think you need to get an understanding of what is going on there.

Jesus Shaves

Why should harvey norman get away with offering a 4 year extended warranty and not honouring it?:rolleyes:

wmpdd3

darokane wrote: »

Why should harvey norman get away with offering a 4 year extended warranty and not honouring it?:rolleyes:

That is a good point, he could leave the consumer law regarding the laptop and just make a formal complaint about the warranty. I wouldn't reguard Sony 'not wanting to put anymore money into the laptop' as a good enough reason to half the value of your insurance policy. You should end up in a similar place to when you bought the product, when you enforce an insurance policy.

To pursue this, you would have to go through the policy with a fine tooth comb and structure a complaint.

If you wanted to go down this route, I think you'd be complaining o the Financial Ombudsman instead of the SCC. Not sure though.

Nonoperational

darokane wrote: »

Why should harvey norman get away with offering a 4 year extended warranty and not honouring it?:rolleyes:

Fair point too. A lot of this case is down to the small print in the warranty documents. I suspect the "aggregate units" are crucial here.

Jesus Shaves

Took this off the Harvey Norman website

Harvey Norman Product Care Hotline: 1800 200 503

Online Product Care Claim: Click Here


No unexpected repair costs:Product Care covers all parts, labor and call out fees.

Authorized Repair Network: Product Care will only use an authorized repairer network which means the job is done the right the first time.

Complete cover: Product Care covers all Electronic, Electrical and mechanical faults.

Global Coverage: Your goods can be repaired any where there is Harvey Norman. You are covered in New Zealand, Australia, Singapore, Malaysia, Slovenia and Ireland.

If the product cant be repaired we'll replace it with a new product.

Lemon Clause: If we replace the same part 3 times We’ll replace the product for a new one.


Extend the life of your product: No need to buy a new product when your current product is still covered under Product Care.


Easy Claims Process: Just one phone call gets the repair started. No lengthy paper work to fill out.

Options Available

http://www.harveynorman.ie/services/product-care-1


Personally i think the OP should go for the replacement product

wmpdd3

darokane wrote: »

Took this off the Harvey Norman website



If the product cant be repaired we'll replace it with a new product.



http://www.harveynorman.ie/services/product-care-1


Personally i think the OP should go for the replacement product

OP, I think this is your argument, you laptop cannot be repaired as Sony think it is not economical so push for a replacement.

trick

Thanks so much guys. Think I'll go for a replacement aswell. Probably be best as not the best time of year to be throwing money together towards a new laptop.
Cool thanks a mill for all the info

trick

I wonder if when I get the replacement will I still have the rest of my extended warranty for it? Or will I need to purchase a new one? It's still valid for 18months

cherryghost

I had a friend who had a similar issue, he was given a replacement. However he was shafted and for his then €700 euro laptop he was given a cheap €300 one as replacement. I argued with the staff there and they finally gave in and replaced it with a laptop with a tag of circa €600.

Just be careful with that kind of thing. Your laptop isn't manufactured anymore and just be sure they don't rip you off if it comes down to laptop replacement.

trick

Thanks Enderman, will keep that in mind. Will give them a buzz tomorrow if I don't hear anything from them & see what they say

wmpdd3

Print out the spec of you laptop, if you can so you can compare it to any replacement they offer.

I would say don't just look for a laptop the same price as the one you bought, but TBH, I have no idea how they will work out what is a replacement, I've never bought a warranty.

slimjimmc

P. Breathnach wrote: »

That's pushing the definition of not fit for for purpose. You had a functioning laptop for the greatest part of two-and-a-half years.



Its true that a warranty cannot abrogate your statutory rights. But you need to consider what your entitlement is under the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act. Personally, I don't think a laptop would count as a consumer durable in the same way as a fridge might. Laptops generally don't last many years. In my (non-expert) opinion, a court would be likely to see Harvey Norman's offer as reasonable.

I agree with dudara: you should read the terms of the extended warranty.

I beg to differ. Laptops should, in general, last many years, certainly a lot longer than 2.5. The main reason that most people and companies tend to replace their laptops is to get the newest spec and not because the old one has died. I have a 10yr old laptop, it's chunky and extremely slow compared to this PC and for that reason alone I don't use it any more but it still works perfectly well. However I do agree that a SCC judge would consider all aspects of the case including the use the OP has had so far.

dudara

slimjimmc wrote: »

I beg to differ. Laptops should, in general, last many years, certainly a lot longer than 2.5.

Absolutely - they can last many years with considered usage. However, the key thing to note is that their value will have declined. What is important here is the value of this laptop after 2.5 years of usage.

If the OP gets his laptop replaced, then it has to be one of equal specification to the original.

jahalpin

It actually sounds like the laptop was damaged by the OP.

Maufacturing defects to an LCD screen would usually be apparent fairly soon after purchase. It is quite easy to damage a laptop screen by having pressure applied to the back of it. This pressure is usually applied when the laptop is being moved in a bag

€100 seems very low for a 4-year extended warranty on a laptop

In my opinion, the life expentancy for a sub-€1000 laptop would be around 2 years

The value offered by HN for your laptop would probably buy a better speced laptop at the moment, especially in the Christmas sales

If you do get a new laptop, you should probably buy one of the laptop cooling stands. These are quite cheap ans extend the life of the laptop

trick

Jahalpin sorry to disappoint but I didn't damage the screen. The fault started developing after approx 15months, lines started rising up the screen gradually until they were up approx 2cm around this time the fan was developing the fault & was overheating the laptop. The laptop was always protected in a well cushioned laptop bag & if it was a thing that it was damaged by myself the extended warranty wouldn't have covered the replacement of the screen.

Unfortunately regardless of whether you feel I should be offered €400 or not the law states that I'm entitled to replacement or refund if the faults can't be repaired & the gal in HN said that Sony wouldn't repair it a 3rd time as its a waste of money & obvious that there is a fault with the laptop. She herself had a vaio which she changed a few weeks previous to my visit to the shop & it was 6years old.

As I explained in the op the first fault occurred after 12months so it's not like it was past it's use by date at that stage. The blue screen showed up so I brought it to HN & they repaired it.

I'll get back to you all with the outcome of the case which will hopefully be in the next few days.

Happy Christmas & thanks for the feedback & info

wmpdd3

So you're taking the SoGS Act rather than the 'extended warranty' route? I'd advise against this.

trick

wpddm3 to be honest HN aren't entertaining my sale of goods & supply of services act spiel as they obv know that they themselves will be out of pocket if they offer me the refund/replacement.
I'll go with whatever they are offering at this stage.
I'm not looking for higher spec or to scam them into getting a fancy schmancy laptop. Just want a laptop that will last as long as its supposed to & not have to restore factory settings every year for no reason.

Santa brought me an iPad2 today so couldn't be bothered arguing with them next week hehe

imitation

I would go for a replacement, SCC would be alot of hassle and is open to complications, like an appeal to the circuit court. A full refund might be a bit much after 2.5 years, considering its second hand value would probably be even less than the 400 euros. You should defintely haggle with them.

I'm puzzled by some of the attitudes on this post, laptops should last longer than two years, I have seen about 4-5 work fine for 5 years, some needing the odd repair. Extended warranties are a bit of a scam IMO, as they cover the period the product is least likely to break in and is not covered by the standard warranty, so if your in a position where you need to exercise it you should get good cover.

trick

Imitation the laptop wouldn't be able to be sold second hand anyway as the gal in the shop said it was burned out.
Check out consumer law act 1980 it's refers to the 3 R's repair, replacement or refund.
Warranty is not relevant in this case as even if I didn't have one I would still be entitled to one or more of the 3 R's & in this case I have already availed of repair so next is refund/replacement.
It's stupidly complicated LOL!!

I'll let y'all know what happens

slimjimmc

trick wrote: »

Imitation the laptop wouldn't be able to be sold second hand anyway as the gal in the shop said it was burned out.
Check out consumer law act 1980 it's refers to the 3 R's repair, replacement or refund.
Warranty is not relevant in this case as even if I didn't have one I would still be entitled to one or more of the 3 R's & in this case I have already availed of repair so next is refund/replacement.
It's stupidly complicated LOL!!

I'll let y'all know what happens

Just to clarify, but the Repair/Replacement/Refund thing is not a sequence. (not suggesting anyone here thinks that). They are simply the options the retailer legally must offer you. The retailer only needs to offer one option, there is no order and if you refuse one they don't have offer an different one. They can make the same offer every time, e.g. if the problem recurs after a previous repair they can still offer a repair. However if either side is unreasonable it could make them look bad to the SCC.

I'd agree you shouldn't settle for another repair but just bare in mind the retailer is within it's rights to offer only that. Best of luck.

Tazium

slimjimmc wrote: »

Just to clarify, but the Repair/Replacement/Refund thing is not a sequence. (not suggesting anyone here thinks that). They are simply the options the retailer legally must offer you. The retailer only needs to offer one option, there is no order and if you refuse one they don't have offer an different one. They can make the same offer every time, e.g. if the problem recurs after a previous repair they can still offer a repair. However if either side is unreasonable it could make them look bad to the SCC.

I'd agree you shouldn't settle for another repair but just bare in mind the retailer is within it's rights to offer only that. Best of luck.

Any repair must be permanent. If the same fault occurs again another remedy is required.

slimjimmc

Tazium wrote: »

Any repair must be permanent. If the same fault occurs again another remedy is required.

Fully agree, and that's what the retailer should do but there is still no legal requirement to offer any specific remedy. I'm just clarifying to the OP that the retailer still has the right to offer another repair and the consumer has the right to refuse it. It's for the SCC to rule if the repair offer is unreasonable (which it probably would be).

Even the NCA are a little vague by using the word "should" (my emphasis).

Repair
If you request a repair of a faulty product instead of rejecting it, it should be a permanent repair. If the same fault occurs again, then you should be entitled to a replacement or refund. If you are not happy with the retailer’s offer to repair the item, you can reject it. But if you do this, you may have to use the Small Claims process if you want to take the matter further.

imitation

trick wrote: »

Imitation the laptop wouldn't be able to be sold second hand anyway as the gal in the shop said it was burned out.
Check out consumer law act 1980 it's refers to the 3 R's repair, replacement or refund.

I understand that, what I was trying to highlight was that for the last 2.5 years you have extracted value from the laptop (apart from the various repairs), so in reality receiving the full value back wouldn't be fair on the retailer.

I'm not an expert on consumer law, but there is the perception that you get a one year warranty on an item and that it. In reality its the case both the shop and the consumer are in agreement it should last at least one year. After that point it become less clear, as far as I know the law says a reasonable period, so really it would have to be determined in the SCC or another court and I think its pretty likely there will a compromise of some sort. I think replacement is the best option, you'll probably get a better specced laptop for your trouble due to the continuous progress in specs

the_syco

trick wrote: »

The fault started developing after approx 15months, lines started rising up the screen gradually until they were up approx 2cm around this time the fan was developing the fault & was overheating the laptop.

Did they say that they replaced the screen or are you just assuming this? I ask as the faulty fan that you speak of will affect two things quickly: the CPU, and the onboard graphics chip. The lines you speak of sound like the faulty fan caused the graphics chip to overheat and slowly start to die.

Check (your warranty) if they have to give you the full value if they offer money. Also, if you do go into HN, ensure you bring someone who knows about computers, to ensure you don't get ripped off. Oh, and backup your hard-drive (data is never covered under the warranties).

trick

the_syco wrote: »

Did they say that they replaced the screen or are you just assuming this? I ask as the faulty fan that you speak of will affect two things quickly: the CPU, and the onboard graphics chip. The lines you speak of sound like the faulty fan caused the graphics chip to overheat and slowly start to die.

Check (your warranty) if they have to give you the full value if they offer money. Also, if you do go into HN, ensure you bring someone who knows about computers, to ensure you don't get ripped off. Oh, and backup your hard-drive (data is never covered under the warranties).

Nope they told me it was replaced & it said so on the receipt. Feel like I'm going around in circles on this thread now so will leave it lie & get back to it when I have resolved the problem with HN.
Thanks

trick

I decided to call HN head office today as I haven heard anything back from HN and the laptop has been in their possession for 14days.
The girl in head office is actually the nicest customer service agent that I have ever spoken to. She was so apologetic & said that I should have just phoned them in the first place. She said she was sorry 'from the bottom of' her 'heart' for the hassle I have gone through with the laptop.
She said she will get it sorted in the next few days & give me a buzz on tues or wed with an update as to what is happening.
Delighted now that I called there today.
Hopefully will have good news by wed

P. Breathnach

trick wrote: »

... The girl in head office is actually the nicest customer service agent that I have ever spoken to. She was so apologetic & said that I should have just phoned them in the first place. She said she was sorry 'from the bottom of' her 'heart' for the hassle I have gone through with the laptop....

I hope the matter now plays out in a way that satisfies you, and the following comment is general, and is not intended to suggest that HN will let you down:
When a customer is unhappy, it costs nothing to show some concern about it, and simply be nice to them. Even if a business concludes that the customer is seeking more than should be given, it is possible to refuse a claim or to offer the customer less than is being sought in a good manner.

My own history with HN is that I once had a complaint about goods supplied. The person I dealt with was the assistant who had sold me the goods. She was very nice, clearly saw it as her duty to sort the problem, and we achieved a solution that was satisfactory all round.

trick

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I hope the matter now plays out in a way that satisfies you, and the following comment is general, and is not intended to suggest that HN will let you down:
When a customer is unhappy, it costs nothing to show some concern about it, and simply be nice to them. Even if a business concludes that the customer is seeking more than should be given, it is possible to refuse a claim or to offer the customer less than is being sought in a good manner.

My own history with HN is that I once had a complaint about goods supplied. The person I dealt with was the assistant who had sold me the goods. She was very nice, clearly saw it as her duty to sort the problem, and we achieved a solution that was satisfactory all round.

I'm sticking to my guns

trick

Lovely lady from Harvey Norman head office called me back promptly this morning and offered me a replacement laptop. Higher specification than the one I had so going to accept that.
Delighted with the outcome & delighted to say case closed.
Thanks for all the advice on this thread & see you all about