The catch 22 of getting that all elusive experience for a career job.

panda21

Hi everyone,
I apologise if this topic has been covered before, I had done a search and haven't quite found the advice that I am looking for. I have a number questions and queries that I hope some of you will be helpful enough to assist with.
So this is my scenario, I am currently working in a large computer retailer as a technician and supervisor. I have all the titles, responsibilities and stress, but none of the financial gains. I am on minimum wage the same as those that I supervise. I am always being praised for my diligence, work ethic, and I have a background in demanding customer service areas hence I'm confident in dealing with customer concerns when they arise. I have been promised the earth and moon recently, however they have not been forth coming. I'm of the age that I need to improve on the minimum wage, it was great when I was in college and living at home, however it does really cut it for bills, rent etc. Now firstly, I am grateful that I'm in employment, but I do believe that everyone is allowed to aspire to more or else we would always remain on the bottom rung, never excelling in our abilities. I have complete 4 years of college, have an honours B.Eng. in Structural engineering and that is where I would ideally would love to see my career, however that at present doesn't seem feasible bar one path there seems to be a lot of advertised positions, the national internship scheme, Job Bridge.
Now this is where my catch 22 comes into to the equation, and I suppose this is my actual question. If I want to avail of the Job Bridge I need to go on job seekers for a minimum of 90 days. I am correct in saying that if I quit my job I have to wait 6 weeks before I can sign on also? Now the monetary aspect doesn't really come into play here, it is the eligibility for the scheme. I'll make the economics of whatever income I have work. I have never been without a job since I was 15, and the idea of being ideal for that length of time actual makes me feel nauseous. It is definitely a flawed system if I am considering leaving paid employment and get job seekers allowance in order to gain the experience in the area for which I trained. I am using the logic of if it is not feasible then the worst position I could be back in is another minimum wage job, so the economics of the situation would be the same as I have now. Is there another means or avenue that I have not considered? In particular where I can gain the experience without signing on?
I have tried to approve companies directly, however they seem to favour the Job Bridge candidates as the company can get the tax breaks.
I have a few more questions but I'll see how the thread progresses and ask down the line. Thanks everyone for any responses.

Mrs OBumble

To start with, I think it's 9 weeks, not 6, stand-down if you quit your job. And remember, you have no guarantee of getting an internship just 'cos you're eligible.

Have you tried looking for jobs in other companies? With your skills (so far) I'd expect you could start getting better positions. Granted they won't use your degreee, but I'd hate to recommending

panda21

JustMary wrote: »

To start with, I think it's 9 weeks, not 6, stand-down if you quit your job. And remember, you have no guarantee of getting an internship just 'cos you're eligible.

Have you tried looking for jobs in other companies? With your skills (so far) I'd expect you could start getting better positions. Granted they won't use your degreee, but I'd hate to recommending

Thanks justmary, I just checked and I can confirm it can be up to 9 weeks if you leave voluntary, it appears to not use any definitives. The time frame, though hard to stomach, I would live with if it made the ultimate goal achievable. I'm thinking a year down the line, the worst case scenario and the doing nothing scenario as I can see will have the same result, I end up back in another minimum wage job. Signing on would be a stepping stone to getting the experience that would lead to a more meaningful career. Is there an alternative pathetic anyone could suggest?
You are after touching on another question I had, I would definitly say that I have had a set of blinkers on regards to where/what I had been applying to. I need to cast the net further, I know my skills are transferable but to which exact industries and what extend, I lack knowledge. I always saw myself being an engineer, and being stubborn I have neglected other areas on the basis of "oh I might not like it". I know silly when you see it written down but is just human thinking.
I can confirm this, retail environment is no longer for me. The retail industry, from my own experience, most under rated itself and under rates it's Staff. There are so many positions in retail that are worthy and demanding career paths that stores seem to just keep filling with temporary staff that will work them until a point when they realise the pay scale doesn't match the responsibility. I am also a very strong believer that staff are only as good as their training, something I never seen heavily invested in in retail. This is the sole reason why in stores around Dublin you always get fragmented information from staff, they are second guessing themselves. In my current employment they appear to be taking the approach of taking on the first and second year college students who have the knowledge and lingo, but they are neglecting the requirement of having a full time core staff in order to maintain continuity of service to customers and providing a concrete knowledge base. I could very well start another topic on what I see as fundamental flaws in the retail industry, many of the stemming from the they're "jobs for teens" image.
One positive is that customers do come and specifically ask for me, and I have recieved a number gratuities. I always feel guilty and say I don't work for tips, but I am very grateful for them supplementing my wage. One of my attributes is that I am a very good worker, and that is one of my concerns if I try get the job seekers for three months is will I be bored. This is for sure there will be a bit of volunteering done.
There is another idea I have toyed around with in my head is to start my own business, all I have to do is earn €8.66 an hour to make it feasible. I just need to research for the right idea more.
Everything I'm saying all needs me to have the guts to take the dive, just what pool will dive into, because I can see myself quickly getting in to a rut with no rewards if I stay where I am.
I have confidence and enjoy dealing with people, but I definitely consider myself an introvert, I find having a thread talking about myself a bit strange. But as I said previously I would greatly appreciate people's input on any aspect. Please don't be afraid of a bit of critism as I find that the most productive at the end of the day, even if it has me shaking my fist at the monitor while I'm reading it. :-D
PS: A question for the Mods, am I allowed to ask or can people solicite me about internships on the forum if they are available?

krd

Don't just leave your job.

There's an automatic assumption, when you're out of a job, that you did something really awful to get fired.

Or, you're someone who just doesn't "fit in".

You have to be careful. There are many things that people in human resources really do not like to hear. They don't want to hear that you were dissatisfied with your previous job. They don't want to hear that you felt exploited. They don't want to hear anything critical of anything. Everything has to be rainbows and sunshine. They will probe you on any gap in your CV.

If you have experience working as a supervisor, you should look at applying for managerial positions elsewhere. Even areas where you have no knowledge or experience. Many businesses see a manager just as a manager. So one day you could be a manager in a factory making processed foods, and the next day you're managing a team of software developers. And that happens.

I've known people who've jumped from poorly paid supervisory positions in retail, to well paid managerial positions in other businesses.

As far as structural engineering is concerned. I'd advise you to find out what business is like in that field. It could be really awful.

I would strongly advise against you going on the dole. Many employers will just not touch you if they see you're not working. The only real benefit of jobsbridge is to get your CV past the bin - because many employers will not even interview someone they see is on the dole.

KRD; I find your post to be ludicrous. If employers didn't hire people who were unemployed, no one would ever have a job.

Anyway, Panda21, I'd say the best thing you can do in your current situation is to just keep the job for the time being, and contact more companies directly (would probably be hugely beneficial to talk to them in person, rather than an email or letter).

If you're getting on so well in your current position, I'm sure your current employer would strongly consider re-hiring you in a few months if you needed to re-apply (assuming things don't work out with the internship).

Honestly, at this stage in the game, I'd say approach numerous companies asking about an internship (stress the fact you'll be working for them and it won't cost them a penny, make sure there's no doubt about that at all, as if they feel you may spring a hidden cost to them, they'll probably be annoyed). If no one is interested, go on Welfare, if you can do so financially, and attempt to get it through that.

The worst thing you can do now is continue going as you are. If you're still working in your current position this time next year, the "I wonder what would've happened if I actually left that time" will wreck your head.


And I wouldn't worry about a gap on your CV, either. Especially in the current situation were every second person is claiming due to having lost their job. I'm sure employers understand the recession as well as anyone else, and people often take time out from working to do a bit of traveling around or to spend time with family, or to try and do something else with their life, or achieve a personal goal or such.

If I knew I was going to live my life skirting from job to job that I didn't care too much for, making minimum wage and with two weeks holiday a year... I wouldn't be waiting for natural causes to kill me. What's the point in that?


That said, before you leave your job, ask for more money. If they give it to you, hang around a bit longer and do a bit of saving for your unemployment stint, and if they don't, well you're planning on leaving for a little while anyway, so tell them you want to pursue a personal interest, and there'll be very little awkwardness or anything (as you'll be gone shortly after). Win-win.


Also keep in mind that I'm writing this as someone who isn't in your current situation, so it's easy for me to say 'balls to the wall, leave it all behind you', because I personally don't have to face any consequence of your actions. So do think about it and weigh it up in your head a lot and consider it strongly before you make any major moves.

Best of luck with it

panda21

Thanks, that is actually some good advice from both of you. I have started to weigh up the pros and cons. One of the motivations for my original post was to see if others had other pros or cons that I had overlooked or not thought of.

Krd, I note what you are saying about remaining positive and I'll take it on board. Currently there is absolutely no negativity with my present employer, I have talked with my manager and he sympathies with me, unfortunately he doesn't control rates. I'm actually very positive myself at the moment, as I feel lucky that I at least have a job (not a career, though), albeit on the very bottom rung of the ladder. However I now have an overwhelming desire to excel and further myself. I know that this comment now is very ignorant on my behalf, but having always worked since I was 15, so straight now for 11 years, one of the factors that makes me very reluctant to sign on is the stigma that would be attached. I need to investigate other paths to internships, which I am going to concentrate on once the christmas period is over.
I want to remain frank in my comments here as I have very human thoughts running through my head.
The last thing I want is to end up down the line saying "what if…". These here are two resons that are very high up on the pros and cons list.

As for structural engineering in Ireland, the opportunities are limited to say the least. And there is where option 3 comes into play, London or further a field maybe calling.

Attol

Would you be willing to work in an internship? Some companies are willing to take recent grads for internships as well. They pay wouldn't be as good as a full-time employees' but it'd probably still be better than minimum wage.

panda21

I would definitely consider an internship if offered. I have applied to a considerable amount already. And ironically got my first personal reply today stating my application is being considered, first personal reply in 8 months. That put a little spring in my step all day, never thought just a reply would put me in such a great mood. It was an application that I had done about a month and half ago and had assumed it was a non runner.

I'm utilising my engineering soft skills to weigh up my options by doing an appraisal. Very difficult to not be quantify something that is qualative, no matter what and depending on my mood I will be subjective. Hence me posting to get other peoples opinions.

eire2009

JustMary wrote: »

To start with, I think it's 9 weeks, not 6, stand-down if you quit your job. And remember, you have no guarantee of getting an internship just 'cos you're eligible.

Have you tried looking for jobs in other companies? With your skills (so far) I'd expect you could start getting better positions. Granted they won't use your degreee, but I'd hate to recommending

You dont have to wait 9 weeks, just say you were let go their too busy to check even if they did care. You`ve paid your tax you have a right to sign on its money owed to you.

Id stay on save up, slash goin out for a few months and look abroad teach English in South Korea you have a degree decent money + $50 a nixer incluing a meal just spitting the Brits tongue easily done. No tefls or experience needed send a photo with your CV if you do apply.

I can get you a volunteer position now with free accommodation if you want to check it out before committing to a year in South Korea involves travel to Cambodia tho.

Australia, Canada if you have no experience I wouldn't bother with the UK.

But move on or make plans to no point dreading 40+ hrs of your living life.

The dole tho after a couple of weeks is worse ..

starlit

OP, have you considered doing voluntary work for a short period of time not necessary a WPP or internship or with jobbridge?

eire2009 wrote: »

You dont have to wait 9 weeks, just say you were let go their too busy to check even if they did care. You`ve paid your tax you have a right to sign on its money owed to you.

Id stay on save up, slash goin out for a few months and look abroad teach English in South Korea you have a degree decent money + $50 a nixer incluing a meal just spitting the Brits tongue easily done. No tefls or experience needed send a photo with your CV if you do apply.

I can get you a volunteer position now with free accommodation if you want to check it out before committing to a year in South Korea involves travel to Cambodia tho.

Australia, Canada if you have no experience I wouldn't bother with the UK.

But move on or make plans to no point dreading 40+ hrs of your living life.

The dole tho after a couple of weeks is worse ..

Eire why would you advise the OP not to go to the UK? There are internships there, I find that Canada you need to be fairly well experienced to work there in a professional job, IT is one of them unless its more manual and low paid work you be looking into be easy enough to get over there and in Oz.

eire2009

doovdela wrote: »

OP, have you considered doing voluntary work for a short period of time not necessary a WPP or internship or with jobbridge?



Eire why would you advise the OP not to go to the UK? There are internships there, I find that Canada you need to be fairly well experienced to work there in a professional job, IT is one of them unless its more manual and low paid work you be looking into be easy enough to get over there and in Oz.

Not unless he has experience the wages are low, they will employ directly from the UK with a UK degree its a supply and demand thing theres no demand for overseas graduates there simple.

Auz wages are ood now because of the strength of the dollar, a connecting flight one-way is hardly that hard to get to.

Why are you advising someone to quit their paying job here to go to another country to work for free

panda21

I definitely won't rule anything out just yet. However i'm not looking for that short term solution. I don't particularly fancy jumping from job to job. I want to aim for a career position, which are not forthcoming in ireland. The UK seems to have some positions. The gradcracker.co.uk website is a great resource, unfortunately no equivalent in Ireland. The gradireland website is poor in comparison.

eire2009

panda21 wrote: »

I definitely won't rule anything out just yet. However i'm not looking for that short term solution. I don't particularly fancy jumping from job to job. I want to aim for a career position, which are not forthcoming in ireland. The UK seems to have some positions. The gradcracker.co.uk website is a great resource, unfortunately no equivalent in Ireland. The gradireland website is poor in comparison.

Make sure to apply with a UK phone number and a address, and a national security number just to get a look in. They prefer local applicants so even if your address is in London you`ll be second in line to a local addresses. The English have learnt the the hard way the effects of emigration plus they dont not adhere to the same European labour laws as Ireland does with equal opportunities for all European members.

Good luck all the same I could be more positive like a politician but all Id be doing is encouraging a form of tourism for the brits that sadly isnt there.

panda21

Thank you eire2009. I have one or two connections that I have not utilised as I have never liked the concept of nepotism. I have always wanted to be selected on my merits, however I have noted a lot of my peers are currently making a success of themselves by first get the foot hold using nepotism, and they will openly admit it. I am making january 3rd my "d-day" to start the serious job hunting, as I hope that everything will be back to normal after the fragmented christmas period.