Stay Behind units

cruasder777

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stay-behind



How would people in here define "stay behind units"? SOF or not ?

The SAS and TA Honourable artillery, 148 battery RA, 47/3 SOB RA, are all stay behind units, surly that makes them special forces? but even though the HAC and others are trained by SAS instructors they are not classed as SOF by the MOD.

Even though their remit was/is to carry out assasinations against military and political figures and lead resistance cells if the UK is invaded or if western Europe had been invaded during the cold war.

"In a stay-behind operation, a country places secret operatives or organisations in its own territory, for use in the event that the territory is overrun by an enemy. If this occurs, the operatives would then form the basis of a resistance movement, or would act as spies from behind enemy lines. Small-scale operations covered only small areas, but larger stay-behind operations envisaged entire countries being conquered.
Significant stay-behind operations existed during World War II. The United Kingdom put in place the Auxiliary Units.
During the Cold War, NATO and the CIA sponsored stay-behind networks in many European countries, intending that they would be activated in the event of that country being taken over by the Warsaw Pact or if the Communist party came to power in a democratic election. According to Martin Packard they were "financed, armed, and trained in covert resistance activities, including assasination, political provocation and disinformation."[1]
Many hidden weapons caches were found, in Italy, Austria, Germany, the Netherlands and other countries, at disposition of these "secret armies". The most famous of these NATO operations was Operation Gladio, acknowledged by Italian Prime Minister Giulio Andreotti on October 24, 1990.



The United Kingdom's Territorial Army regiments of SAS and Honourable Artillery Company provided such stay behind parties in the UK's sector of West Germany.[2]


Do you think the republic has stay behind units if it was invaded ? Ie units trained to lead a resistance ?

Avgas

There is a proper scholarly book on the whole 'stay behind' concept by a Swiss researcher called Gasner.

http://www.amazon.com/NATOs-Secret-Armies-Operation-Contemporary/dp/0714685003

I think many of these outfits were more intel based and spookys...some ex military and far right types..indeed quality control was a problem......it would be a waste of genuine SOF types.....the whole point is these were covert lie low outfits that would be activated only in doomsday or if the local commies looked like winning elections (Italy)..in some cases the operations went totally AWOL and native (Italy again) and had to be disowned....interestingly most neutral countries had a network...which begs the question who or what was the Irish one? I had some brief email exchange a few years back with Gansner and he says he has no knowledge of any Irish stay behind org whatsoever nor any references in the paper trails he has followed.

Myself, I reckon it was the old 16 inf bn FCA......:rolleyes:

cruasder777

I once visited a nuclear bunker outside London, it was a regional command and control centre in the event of nuclear war.

Mrs T had her own room there. Senior emegency services staff would have been housed there as well, it was connected with other regional bunkers in the UK as a command and control centre, I also went to one for the NW region.

It was a disguised as a bunglow, but went 6 floor below the ground, made of reinforced concrete.

It had a canteen, a hospital wing inc a theatre, armoury etc.

It was also said cyanide was kept there in the event of total destruction with no chance of survival it would have been issued.

The were also very small bunkers all over the UK manned by the Royal Observer corps.

johnny_doyle

just around the corner from me are Corsham and Coleshill

Corsham has a huge underground complex
http://www.burlingtonbunker.co.uk/

Coleshill was a training centre for WW2 resistance in the event of invasion
http://www.coleshillhouse.com/

Jaafa

Video Series on the subject.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5soEhxA6zXs

discus

cruasder777 wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stay-behind



How would people in here define "stay behind units"? SOF or not ?

Not SF. 4/73 are trained for the stay behind role, but their current missions in Afghan are completely different from that role.

Do you think the republic has stay behind units if it was invaded ? Ie units trained to lead a resistance ?

We don't need formal stay behind units - Irishmen have proved they are adept at less formal guerilla tactics.

cruasder777

discus wrote: »

Not SF. 4/73 are trained for the stay behind role, but their current missions in Afghan are completely different from that role.



We don't need formal stay behind units - Irishmen have proved they are adept at less formal guerilla tactics.

In their ISTAR in Afghanistan, they have done the longest British army desert patrol since WW2. They often serve alongside SAS units so their role is not "completely different".

"4/73 Special OP battery are an elite unit within 5 Regiment, Royal Artillery, tasked with directing artillery fire and air strikes deep into enemy-held territory. 4/73 Bty also provide crucial battlefield intelligence on enemy positions, movements, strength and morale."



Their stay behind role was a SOF one.


"4/73 Bty were established in 1982 to fill a mostly cold war role. In the event of a Soviet invasion of Western Europe, small teams from 4/73 Bty were to establish covert hides along expected invasion routes. Once overrun by Soviet forces, they would call in intelligence reports and artillery strikes on deep/rear elements of the enemy - e.g. lines of supply, headquarters etc."


"During their deployment in Helmand in 2007, 4/73 Bty mounted a seven week desert patrol, Britain's longest since the second World War."


The role of Special Observer within 4/73 Bty is a specialisation which candidates choose when joining the Army. An 18 weeks 'Special Observer Patrol Course' trains candidates in the requisite skills over a series of 8 modules:

1. Physical Endurance, Stamina and Navigation
2. Tactics and Patrolling
3. Communications Skills
4. Advanced Combat Field Firing
5. Specialist Skills Package
   a) Specialist OP and Observation Skills
   b) Medical Trauma
   c) Survival
6. Advanced Patrolling Skills
7. Final Surveillance and Reconnaissance Patrolling evaluation
8. Basic Op Assistant.

discus

Again with meaningless copy and paste. What part of my post are you contesting? They serve alongside the SAS... So that makes them special forces?

cruasder777

discus wrote: »

Again with meaningless copy and paste. What part of my post are you contesting? They serve alongside the SAS... So that makes them special forces?

Its better to read accurate copy then drunk type bs and insults like twenty two posts.

They often serve alongside the SAS on the same missions. Inc in the Falklands

In A-stan they have served alongside in ISTAR battlefield intelligence gathering etc.

So their role is not "completely different" in certain theatres.

You are making statements without understanding the role they often play alongside UK SOF.


I said their stay behind role was a SOF one.

Once again common sense is being contested :rolleyes:

delta-boy

To be slightly honest Cruasder777, who cares if they are SF or not, what is everyones fascination with SF?

discus

cruasder777 wrote: »

Its better to read accurate copy then drunk type bs and insults like twenty two posts.

They often serve alongside the SAS on the same missions. Inc in the Falklands

In A-stan they have served alongside in ISTAR battlefield intelligence gathering etc.

So their role is not "completely different" in certain theatres.

You are making statements without understanding the role they often play alongside UK SOF.


I said their stay behind role was a SOF one.

Once again common sense is being contested :rolleyes:

People like you ruin fora like this. Your only contributions to any argument are verbatim copies from various websites, and then you defend them to the death if anyone has anything to say which contradicts them... or condtradicts your decisions on who is SF or not.

Stick your common sense up your jacksie. I'm a wet behind the ears recruit, but I've had the briefings from the paras, the commandos and 4/73 as they try sway me and my intake into joining them, and let me tell you, they gave us a lot more information in 1 morning than you'll ever garner in a lifetime of reading the same **** over and over on silly SF/elite forces websites... not to mentioin the fact that these same guys are the NCOs who bring us out to the range, wake us up in the morning and thrash us on pt. We hear things daily.

I didn't want to lay it out like this for you, but you're somewhat insulting in how you retort to anything.

edit: Finally, I could give you a nice breakdown of what the 'specialist 3' are doing in Afghan (and elsewhere) right now, but god knows how you would no doubt distort it and trot it out somehow in support of your SF fascinations.

cruasder777

This is a military website, if you dont like the topic, stay off the thread.

"I'm a wet behind the ears recruit, but I've had the briefings from the paras, the commandos and 4/73 as they try sway me and my intake into joining them"

....Please stop walting.

Norwayviking

cruasder777 wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stay-behind



How would people in here define "stay behind units"? SOF or not ?

The SAS and TA Honourable artillery, 148 battery RA, 47/3 SOB RA, are all stay behind units, surly that makes them special forces? but even though the HAC and others are trained by SAS instructors they are not classed as SOF by the MOD.

Even though their remit was/is to carry out assasinations against military and political figures and lead resistance cells if the UK is invaded or if western Europe had been invaded during the cold war.

"In a stay-behind operation, a country places secret operatives or organisations in its own territory, for use in the event that the territory is overrun by an enemy. If this occurs, the operatives would then form the basis of a resistance movement, or would act as spies from behind enemy lines. Small-scale operations covered only small areas, but larger stay-behind operations envisaged entire countries being conquered.
Significant stay-behind operations existed during World War II. The United Kingdom put in place the Auxiliary Units.
During the Cold War, NATO and the CIA sponsored stay-behind networks in many European countries, intending that they would be activated in the event of that country being taken over by the Warsaw Pact or if the Communist party came to power in a democratic election. According to Martin Packard they were "financed, armed, and trained in covert resistance activities, including assasination, political provocation and disinformation."[1]
Many hidden weapons caches were found, in Italy, Austria, Germany, the Netherlands and other countries, at disposition of these "secret armies". The most famous of these NATO operations was Operation Gladio, acknowledged by Italian Prime Minister Giulio Andreotti on October 24, 1990.



The United Kingdom's Territorial Army regiments of SAS and Honourable Artillery Company provided such stay behind parties in the UK's sector of West Germany.[2]


Do you think the republic has stay behind units if it was invaded ? Ie units trained to lead a resistance ?

Most countries would have their own stay behind units.;)
During the cold war and wwii many countries developed these units for the purpose of an soviet invasion or lessons learned from WW2.

twinytwo

cruasder777 wrote: »

This is a military website, if you dont like the topic, stay off the thread.

"I'm a wet behind the ears recruit, but I've had the briefings from the paras, the commandos and 4/73 as they try sway me and my intake into joining them"

....Please stop walting.

Take a leaf out your own book sir.

twinytwo

cruasder777 wrote: »

Its better to read accurate copy then drunk type bs and insults like twenty two posts.

They often serve alongside the SAS on the same missions. Inc in the Falklands

In A-stan they have served alongside in ISTAR battlefield intelligence gathering etc.

So their role is not "completely different" in certain theatres.

You are making statements without understanding the role they often play alongside UK SOF.


I said their stay behind role was a SOF one.

Once again common sense is being contested :rolleyes:

Is this some sort of reference to me??... kindly point any "drunk type bs and insults"... i can assure you there are none.

You are the one trying to pass off garbage as fact. Even after being proven wrong by more than one poster.

Again i ask to give something to back up your claims other than wikipedia or other rubbish website.... but wait you cant.

discus

cruasder777 wrote: »

This is a military website, if you dont like the topic, stay off the thread.

"I'm a wet behind the ears recruit, but I've had the briefings from the paras, the commandos and 4/73 as they try sway me and my intake into joining them"

....Please stop walting.

Ahhhh this is classic! Please stop walting - bwahahaha! Fuck sake, I've admitted to being a recruit - I'll go a step further, and tell you I'm a gunner recruit. We get taken in as a gunner crewman, and at the start of phase 2 we have to pick our regiment and trade. Most want to man the 105mm, so the choices for that weapon are 7 Para or 29 Cdo - since the lowland gunners have been disbanded, 105mm is a specialist unit weapon. For those who yearn to work in RECCE, they have 4/73 to apply for. It's looked down upon if you come to phase 2 without a specialist unit amongst your preferred units of choice, as it apparently makes one seem lazy (they don't want recruits to lose steam after training).

This crusader chap is a time waster lads.

PS your topic is a load of shyt. The topic is "are 4/73 SF"... the answer is no. You can ask them if you like!