self vaccination

subway

hi, could anyone advise if its possible to "self-vaccinate" dogs?
its quite expensive bringing them to the vet every year so if there is an alternative i would be interested to hear about it

they arent due until may but i want to ask early in case there its difficult to buy the medicine etc.

Irishchick

I would recommend bringing them to vet. Its only once a year and its essential to get a yearly check up. The vet may notice things that you may not.

If you really must do it yourself then you can buy them from the vet or get a prescription and get them at a pharmacy that stocks them.

Also I dont want to appear snide but if you are worrying about the cost of a yearly vaccine will you be able to afford to pay if anything goes wrong? Dogs can be expensive animals so make sure you organise insurance or have a separate stash with money for emergencies.

subway

Irishchick wrote: »

Also I dont want to appear snide but if you are worrying about the cost of a yearly vaccine will you be able to afford to pay if anything goes wrong? Dogs can be expensive animals so make sure you organise insurance or have a separate stash with money for emergencies.

hmmm, I didnt ask for an opinion on my finances. patronising comments can be left at the door...

I would recommend bringing them to vet. Its only once a year and its essential to get a yearly check up. The vet may notice things that you may not..

i'm mainly looking for opinions from people who do this, or even specific reasons not to. generic reasons against it are not really useful

buy them from the vet or get a prescription and get them at a pharmacy that stocks them.

are these the only places to buy them and do you definitely need a presciption?

subway

i've found an old thread that actually has correct / useful info.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=64481886

hopefully someone who posted there might chime in here, or perhaps a moderator might merge the 2 if the other one isnt too old?

Shanao

I buy mine from a vet who runs a chemist and selfvaccinate both dogs and cats as a lot of rescues come through the door. I've never needed a prescription for them, just walk in and tell them what I want, but they know me at this point so there's no issues. Have never had a problem with kennels or anything, but I do make sure I get the kennel cough vaccination from a vet just in case there could be an issue

subway

cheers for that info. do you just buy them as you need them or would you buy a box and store them?

also, out of interest, how do you dispose of sharps etc? does the vet take them back from you?

Irishchick

hmmm, I didnt ask for an opinion on my finances. patronising comments can be left at the door...

As I said it was meant as patronising. You should be worried about the cost if your already worrying about a yearly vet visit.

generic reasons against it are not really useful

Its far from a generic reason. I could bore with 100's of things that could go wrong when giving a subcutaneous injection. Its rare but it can happen, but why do that when I can just recommend that you bring your pet for a yearly check up and having it done then rather than doing it yourself and having to bring your pet for a yearly check up anyway.

subway

Irishchick wrote: »

As I said it was meant as patronising. You should be worried about the cost if your already worrying about a yearly vet visit.

i'm just asking you not to jump to conclusions.
do you shop around for anything or just pay the first asking price?
we have 4 dogs to vaccinate this year so thought it would be an idea to research a way of cutting down costs. its a common thing on this board, one of the reasons i dont post here that often, for people to quickly take some sort of perceived moral high ground and it does nothing but embarass you.

Irishchick wrote: »

Its far from a generic reason.

i can bring them to vets anytime i need to, IMO, just-in-case is a generic reason

Irishchick wrote: »

I could bore with 100's of things that could go wrong when giving a subcutaneous injection. Its rare but it can happen, but why do that when I can just recommend that you bring your pet for a yearly check up and having it done then rather than doing it yourself and having to bring your pet for a yearly check up anyway.

exactly, assume i am clueless and post generic, less than helpful info. just reinforces my belief that there is cult-ish feel to this forum, cheers.

Irishchick wrote: »

I could bore with 100's of things that could go wrong when giving a subcutaneous injection

but this is exactly what i would like to hear so why not engage with me if you have all this extra info? or are you just pulling it off wiki to pretend you have some advanced knowledge?

Shanao

I only buy as I need them. But i would have to stress Irishchicks point, have you given subcutaneous injections before as I wouldn't vaccinate without being trained properly in how to do so.

subway

not me, but a family member is diabetic and self-injects daily and they would be performing the injections. would i be right in assuming its the same process?

Vince32

This is my advice, go to a vet clinic and ask the vet about your questions, s/he will ask the same questions your getting here, and there are other concerns to consider as you seem to know and understand.

Sharps like syringes and needles need to be disposed of in a biohazard container, and can be disposed of safely at any pharmacy, the meds need to be kept at a stable temp and or chilled to prolong shelf life.

Your vet will give you all the info needed to perform the injections safely and properly, if this is your first time or you are a novice preforming the procedure, I would urge you to seek professional advice before beginning.

Your reasons are your own, and you have a right to privacy without question, but when you come to a forum and ask for advice you have to be able to supply at least some information your fellow posters can steer you on the right course.
No one here is trying to undermine you or your intentions, posters express concerns you may not have considered, and offer ideas to aid you in your queries.

good luck in your search, and keep us posted on how your getting on

laters

subway

Vince32 wrote: »

This is my advice, go to a vet clinic and ask the vet about your questions, s/he will ask the same questions your getting here, and there are other concerns to consider as you seem to know and understand.

Sharps like syringes and needles need to be disposed of in a biohazard container, and can be disposed of safely at any pharmacy, the meds need to be kept at a stable temp and or chilled to prolong shelf life.

Your vet will give you all the info needed to perform the injections safely and properly, if this is your first time or you are a novice preforming the procedure, I would urge you to seek professional advice before beginning.

Your reasons are your own, and you have a right to privacy without question, but when you come to a forum and ask for advice you have to be able to supply at least some information your fellow posters can steer you on the right course.
No one here is trying to undermine you or your intentions, posters express concerns you may not have considered, and offer ideas to aid you in your queries.

good luck in your search, and keep us posted on how your getting on

laters

cheers, i always find its easier to get a basis (usually via boards) before going and speaking to a proefssional. thats why I'm here. your post is quite helfpul

the only reason i'm reacting is because, from one post asking a question, its inferred that not only do i not have pet insurance, but also should consider setting up a savings account. no one asked me these things, irishchick simply assumed i needed telling. i find that a little presumptious and condescending, notwithstanding the "i'm not a racist but..." style intro

boomerang

I can understand why vets prefer to give the vaccination for you. It's so much safer. I wouldn't ever give one of my dogs a vaccination without doing a check up on them first - I take their temperature, check their heart rate, breathing rate, etc. You don't want to vaccinate a dog that's brewing an illness as their immune system won't cope with the vaccine. Also you never vaccinate a dog unless it's 100% well, or the vaccine may not take. That's why it's so important to let the vet check over the dog before going ahead with the vaccination.

It's also a different procedure to giving insulin to a diabetic. The contents of the two vials (DHPPi and Lepto) have to be mixed, the needle is bigger than on a diabetic syringe and the needle goes under the skin, rather than into the muscle. It's easy to make beginner mistakes until you've had a lot of practice - for instance if the needle goes back out through the skin you just squirt the vaccine down the dog's coat!

If your dogs are vaccinated yearly you could talk to your vet about just giving them Lepto this year, which would cost less than the full DHPPi + Lepto. But it's a calculated risk.

Also if any of your dogs are geriatric (over 8/9 years of age) discuss the benefit of further DHPPi (distemper, parvovirus etc.) vaccinations with your vet too. My guys only get Lepto yearly now as they're both approaching double figures.

To the best of my knowledge you need a prescription from your vet to obtain the vaccines from a chemist. The DHPPi and Lepto vaccines are €9 in my local agri-chemist.

HTH.

Cherry Blossom

Boards takes an extremely dim view on asking for/ giving detailed medical advice. OP - take your queries to your vet.

The posts detailing step-by-step instructions on how to perform the procedure have been removed, do not post instructions for procedures that should be conducted by a veterinary professional

subway

Thanks adrenalinjunkie.
I suppose, to clarify where i'm coming from, i get tne impression that its common outside of ireland for people to vacc thier pets. It also seems quite normal for farmers to vacc thier animals. The impression i get from this is that its something that the dedicated pet owner should consider doing themselves as a way to reduce stress tor the animal and cut down, in one small area, on the extensive costs of animal ownership.

To restate my question, is home vaccination a viable option in ireland? Armed with some basic knowledge is it something taht should be considered by pet owners? And, if with all things considered, it seems to make sense, is it actually possible to do so in this country?
For example, if the animal needs to be checked by a vet before medicin will be distibuted, it makes sense to have the vacc done in the vets anyway.

Im not looking for medical advice ( it mAy have come across that way), ill get thst from my vet, im just looking for info on whether or not this is something worth looking into and, if there are some people who do it already, some real wprld advice on the logistics of performing home vaccs.

subway

boomerang wrote: »

I can understand why vets prefer to give the vaccination for you. It's so much safer. I wouldn't ever give one of my dogs a vaccination without doing a check up on them first - I take their temperature, check their heart rate, breathing rate, etc. You don't want to vaccinate a dog that's brewing an illness as their immune system won't cope with the vaccine. Also you never vaccinate a dog unless it's 100% well, or the vaccine may not take. That's why it's so important to let the vet check over the dog before going ahead with the vaccination.

It's also a different procedure to giving insulin to a diabetic. The contents of the two vials (DHPPi and Lepto) have to be mixed, the needle is bigger than on a diabetic syringe and the needle goes under the skin, rather than into the muscle. It's easy to make beginner mistakes until you've had a lot of practice - for instance if the needle goes back out through the skin you just squirt the vaccine down the dog's coat!

If your dogs are vaccinated yearly you could talk to your vet about just giving them Lepto this year, which would cost less than the full DHPPi + Lepto. But it's a calculated risk.

Also if any of your dogs are geriatric (over 8/9 years of age) discuss the benefit of further DHPPi (distemper, parvovirus etc.) vaccinations with your vet too. My guys only get Lepto yearly now as they're both approaching double figures.

To the best of my knowledge you need a prescription from your vet to obtain the vaccines from a chemist. The DHPPi and Lepto vaccines are €9 in my local agri-chemist.

HTH.

Thanks boomerang, thats a great post on the topic and gives me a lot to consider.

Susannahmia

My mother self vaccinates our two cats and two dogs. She's a nurse however so is well used to giving injections.

Honestly its just so expensive to get them all done in the vet and money is tight at the moment. We would prefer to leave that money aside for any emergency vet bills that come up.

It cost €50 to do the 4 at home whereas the quote we got from the vet was at least €150!


The only problem we are having recently is that a lot of pharmacies are not stocking the vaccinations anymore. The last pharmacy I got them from said they might soon have to stop as vets were putting them under pressure for losing their potential profits.

subway

Thanks susannahmia,
one of the considerations I had was that if I don't do some research in advance my vets view could be biased as they obviously wouldn't want to lose the business. And I wouldn't notice the bias.
Do you know if the medicine is widely available and if it can be got without prescription?

Susannahmia

subway wrote: »

Thanks susannahmia,
one of the considerations I had was that if I don't do some research in advance my vets view could be biased as they obviously wouldn't want to lose the business. And I wouldn't notice the bias.
Do you know if the medicine is widely available and if it can be got without prescription?

We get it without perscription but only a few chemists do it. Those that do don't advertise it, like I said a lot of them are under pressure from vets to stop it altogether. You have to ask.

mosi

OP, if finances are a real problem there is the option of taking them to a charitable clinic. Where are you based? I know of a few in Dublin, I'm not sure what the situation is around the country.
I personally like going to the vet as, like others have said, it is an opportunity to get a full check up. Dogs can have underlying problems that we cannot detect ourselves.

Patrick2010

I've been taking my dogs to the local vet for 30 years now and hes never checked them over before giving them their yearly shots. If I could do it myself I would especially as the current elderly pooch got very stressed about his last 2 visits since it took a couple of goes to inject him.
OP asked a valid question, I'm sure he wasn't expecting to be quizzed about his finances.

subway

mosi wrote: »

OP, if finances are a real problem

I've already stated, this is not a financial issue and i don't want the thread derailed in that direction.
From this point on I'm considering anymore posts about finance as trolling and will report them.

mosi

subway wrote: »

its quite expensive bringing them to the vet every year so if there is an alternative i would be interested to hear about it

OP, you have said that the expense is a factor in considering self vax. Neither me, nor anyone else here, I'm sure, cares to know about your finances.
You asked for alternatives, I suggested something that cut downs the costs but still involves a vet check. I don't see how that is trolling.

subway

I asked about self vaccination, the expenses I refer to in terms of value for money. 65 or so for a quick jab is not vfm. It's peanuts in monetary terms but i don't like being ripped off if there is an alternative.
Your suggestion that I take charity, when you don't know my finances and I've asked numerous tines for people to stop referring to them, is insulting to me.
But lets not let the topic at hand get in the way of these tangential discussions

Cartman78

Susannahmia wrote: »

My mother self vaccinates our two cats and two dogs. She's a nurse however so is well used to giving injections.

Honestly its just so expensive to get them all done in the vet and money is tight at the moment. We would prefer to leave that money aside for any emergency vet bills that come up.

It cost €50 to do the 4 at home whereas the quote we got from the vet was at least €150!


The only problem we are having recently is that a lot of pharmacies are not stocking the vaccinations anymore. The last pharmacy I got them from said they might soon have to stop as vets were putting them under pressure for losing their potential profits.

Mrs. Cartman does our little hero as well but (crucially perhaps) she is a nurse and used of administering injections.

Vets fees for vaccinations are exorbitant imho

subway

Thanks cartman, the resounding feedback, from those who do it themselves, seems to be to have a nurse involved.
I know a few that im sure would be willing to help me out, if we decide to do it at home.

borderlinemeath

subway wrote: »

I asked about self vaccination, the expenses I refer to in terms of value for money. 65 or so for a quick jab is not vfm. It's peanuts in monetary terms but i don't like being ripped off if there is an alternative.
Your suggestion that I take charity, when you don't know my finances and I've asked numerous tines for people to stop referring to them, is insulting to me.
But lets not let the topic at hand get in the way of these tangential discussions

To be honest it's kind of hard to not allude to finances when the post is about saving money?

OP, I have 2 dogs and it costs a good bit to get vaccs done, hell a visit to the vet costs me more than a trip to the doctors/dentists but that's the price I pay for peace of mind for my dogs. The price of visiting the vets is reflective of the years of study/cost of practices/insurance and is in line with other medical practitioners in that respect. While it's not cheap, I think it's a bit insulting to call it a rip off.

The alternative that you are looking for is there but as most posters who use this method have stated - they are in the medical field and are confident carrying out the procedures.

subway

borderlinemeath wrote: »

To be honest it's kind of hard to not allude to finances when the post is about saving money?

OP, I have 2 dogs and it costs a good bit to get vaccs done, hell a visit to the vet costs me more than a trip to the doctors/dentists but that's the price I pay for peace of mind for my dogs. The price of visiting the vets is reflective of the years of study/cost of practices/insurance and is in line with other medical practitioners in that respect. While it's not cheap, I think it's a bit insulting to call it a rip off.

The alternative that you are looking for is there but as most posters who use this method have stated - they are in the medical field and are confident carrying out the procedures.

Reported, hopefully a moderator can put a stop to this. Ive covered the finances over and over and over

Cherry Blossom

subway wrote: »

Reported, hopefully a moderator can put a stop to this. Ive covered the finances over and over and over

There is nothing report-worthy in that post - you have asked for opinions on self vaccinating, so that's what has been given.

subway

OK. Guess I'm stuck with the off topic and repetitive posts then, anyone who posts about finances. I will do my best to ignore the posts
I'm asking for advice on vaccination only, please im asking as kindly as I can, can everyone stop dropping in to give their 2 cents on finance.

if you have no experience in vaccination then please realise that you have nothing of value to add to this thread.

Thanks and merry Christmas

The Sweeper

Many of the problems with self-vaccination have already been covered.

Are you capable of identifiying the correct vaccine, gaining a prescription, purchasing it, checking that it's within date, storing it properly, giving your animal a once-over including checking heart rate and temperature and then properly administering an injection?

If you can do all of the above and are prepared to watch for an adverse reaction for 24 hours, as you would have to do if the vet administered the injection, then the real problem with self-administered injections is the vaccine card.

The vaccine vials come with a little easy-pull-off sticker on them. The sticker has the vaccine name, batch code and serial number on it generally (or variations on this information.) That's what your vet peels off the vaccine bottle and sticks onto your dog's (or cat's) vaccine card.

You can't get a vaccine card with self bought vaccines. They come through the vet.

If you already have a vaccine card you can always stick the labels in there with the dates yourself, but the place where you authorise the vaccine - well that's just going to be your name. You may find that a pet insurance policy, if you were to have one, would be invalidated by self vaccination.

The other problem is kennelling. You may need to kennel your pet at some point and if you're to kennel your pets their vaccinations have to be up to date. Without a valid vaccine card you can't prove that they are.

One thing I'm not good at is checking the condition of my cats' mouths - I can't score their tartar or spot gingivitis, so I take my pets to the vet for that.

I have six cats and I take them all to the vet together, so I only pay a single consult fee. I take them all into the exam room together and we let them all out together (or at least my last vet did because he really liked cats and thought it was a hoot). He examines each one before vaccinating, but he has a really good look in ears and mouths, two things I can't do at home.

It's very important to me because dental issues with pets cost a small fortune and many pet insurance policies don't cover dental. I want the vet to spot decay, cracked teeth and tartar build up early so he can warn me about it and I can take measures.

boomerang

I would have to say my vet is brilliant when people bring their dogs in for annual booster shots. She really does check them over thoroughly and asks a lot of questions before she will vaccinate. She doesn't push vaccinations on the client at all. That's the way it should be. And I agree with the previous poster who said that the cost of vaccinations reflects "the years of study/cost of practices/insurance and is in line with other medical practitioners in that respect."

Vaccination is no small thing. The immune system must be functioning well, and you have to be prepared for post-vaccine reactions. Plus did you know that different vaccinations should not be given together? Or how long it takes the dog to develop immunity from these vaccinations?

I really don't feel this is something a lay person should attempt. I do think it's wrong to trivialise vaccinations. I was thinking about it today and the thought occured to me, would you give your infant child an MMR vaccine without the guidance of a doctor? Or give yourself a shot against tetanus bought over the counter? I just don't think it's very safe for our pets to be vaccinating them ourselves.

My vet charges €30 for the vaccination visit, which includes a check up. For a puppy requiring its first set of vaccinations (three weeks apart) it's €55 for the two vaccinations and worming. I haven't heard of any practice charging €65 for a single vaccination - that's obscene!

The reason chemists are getting coy about selling the vaccines is because it is against the law without a prescription. It doesn't have anything to do with vets pressuring them. I mean, which vets are pressuring which chemists?

I know it's tempting to think that the vets rip us off on vaccinations and any idiot could do it, but I strongly believe that is not the case. These products are controlled with good reason and should only be administered by a professional.

Irishchick

Listen to boomerang he/she is talking a lot of sense

First Aid Ireland

Do you know how to administer the vaccines? Maybe it's different in animals. But in humans it's quite important to have the technique correct. If you do it wrong, you don't get the full effect. It's not as easy as it looks. Took me a few goes to get the hang of it properly. I'm quite experienced in jabbing people, but I wouldn't inject an animal. Maybe it's different in animals though.

madcabbage

Thats what a vet is for, don't be trying to do something your not sure of. I know someone who attempted this and it ended bad!

boomerang

Don't expect the chemist to be able to advise you. I was in the chemist last week and overheard the girl behind the counter telling a customer "now, you know what to do, right? Give this one first (shakes bag with DHPPi in it) and then this one (Lepto) three weeks later." :eek:

cena

You could look up youtube. Some vids of vets going through it.