Unlit motorways - full beam all the time?

rab!dmonkey

When you're driving on a motorway without street lighting, should you dip your lights for traffic on the other carriageway?

kippy

rab!dmonkey wrote: »

When you're driving on a motorway without street lighting, should you dip your lights for traffic on the other carriageway?

I'd assume so, yeah.........(once you can see their lights you should dip yours)

Wishbone Ash

Yes.

Some argue that lights are usually hidden by the centre barrier/hedge etc. but some drivers such as truck drivers are seated far above their lights and although you may not see their lights, you could be blinding them.

(Hence the reason why many trucks are (illegally) fitted with roof lights above the cab.)

Bluefoam

Are there unlit motorways in Ireland?

hardCopy

Bluefoam wrote: »

Are there unlit motorways in Ireland?

Lots.

Outside of Dublin some are only lit at junctions.

Wishbone Ash

Bluefoam wrote: »

Are there unlit motorways in Ireland?

You don't get out much!

sentient_6

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Yes.

Some argue that lights are usually hidden by the centre barrier/hedge etc. but some drivers such as truck drivers are seated far above their lights and although you may not see their lights, you could be blinding them.

(Hence the reason why many trucks are (illegally) fitted with roof lights above the cab.)

IMO even a slight gradient in the road is enough sometimes for fulls to get into the eye level of a regular car coming the opposite direction.

Here's my controversial opinion of the day: I detest the use of full beams on a motorway, i think they serve no purpose whatsoever, in fact even with no other traffic on the road i find them a bit too bright & dazzling off signs & cats eyes, until very recently i drove a particular 60 km stretch of the M6, 5 nights a week for 2 months, never putting on my fulls.

Bluefoam

hardCopy wrote: »

Lots.

Outside of Dublin some are only lit at junctions.

There are junctions on motorways now?

cosmic

Bluefoam wrote: »

There are junctions on motorways now?

How else do you exit?!

Carter P Fly

[rant]There is no reason to every use full beams on a motorway EVER. I think anyone caught doing so should be given penalty points and a kick in the face for being such a useless idiotic retard. [/endrant]

Frank Black

Bluefoam wrote: »

There are junctions on motorways now?

They're called 'grade separated junctions' - as opposed to traditional cross roads and t-junctions, which are known as 'at grade junctions'.

cosmic

Carter P Fly wrote: »

[rant]There is no reason to every use full beams on a motorway EVER. I think anyone caught doing so should be given penalty points and a kick in the face for being such a useless idiotic retard. [/endrant]

How many times have you driven the M7 in the pitch black?

Carter P Fly

Lots of times, Its a motorway, Its strait(ish) there are cats eyes and white lines. There is no reason to use your high beams but theres always the odd a$shole whos either a couple of hundred meters behind you with his high beams on or on the other lane blinding eveyone he passes because he's to stupid to relise that the central divide doesnt do jack to stop you blinding oncoming traffic.

Seriously, Penalty points plus a kick in the face is going easy on the eejits.

MascotDec85

Carter P Fly wrote: »

Lots of times, Its a motorway, Its strait(ish) there are cats eyes and white lines. There is no reason to use your high beams but theres always the odd a$shole whos either a couple of hundred meters behind you with his high beams on or on the other lane blinding eveyone he passes because he's to stupid to relise that the central divide doesnt do jack to stop you blinding oncoming traffic.

Seriously, Penalty points plus a kick in the face is going easy on the eejits.

A driver should do all that they can to assist with their vision ahead. That includes using full beam on an unlit motorway where it's safe to do so. Obviously that means when there's no oncoming vehicles on the other side or vehicles directly in front of you no matter how far they are ahead.

To say don't use them EVER is simply not true.

Carter P Fly

The space of time between there being an oncoming car on the opposite side of a motorway and there not being one is so short as to make the action of putting on your high beams pointless. Why concentrate on oncoming traffic and not on the road directly in front of you? If anything being a flick on when the roads free, flick off when theres a car in view is a distraction rather than an assistance.

MascotDec85

Carter P Fly wrote: »

The space of time between there being an oncoming car on the opposite side of a motorway and there not being one is so short as to make the action of putting on your high beams pointless. Why concentrate on oncoming traffic and not on the road directly in front of you? If anything being a flick on when the roads free, flick off when theres a car in view is a distraction rather than an assistance.

If you are easily distracted maybe.

It depends entirely how busy the road is. As said saying they should never be used is not true. I drove up the M2 the other night and there was hardly a sinner on my side of the road. Full beam on and off again when other vehicles approached the other side.

Most of these motorways cut through countryside, animals regularly cross them deers, badgers that kind of thing. I want to be able to see stuff like that at the earliest opportunity so I can do something about it.

Carter P Fly

MascotDec85 wrote: »

If you are easily distracted maybe.

It depends entirely how busy the road is. As said saying they should never be used is not true. I drove up the M2 the other night and there was hardly a sinner on my side of the road. Full beam on and off again when other vehicles approached the other side.

Most of these motorways cut through countryside, animals regularly cross them deers, badgers that kind of thing. I want to be able to see stuff like that at the earliest opportunity so I can do something about it.

So basically you're one of those guys who drive with their high beams on on the motorway. I'd bet any amount of money you also drive on the inside lane when the road is clear cos I've heard all those excuses from people who habitually do that also.

MascotDec85

Carter P Fly wrote: »

So basically you're one of those guys who drive with their high beams on on the motorway. I'd bet any amount of money you also drive on the inside lane when the road is clear cos I've heard all those excuses from people who habitually do that also.

No, I'm a driving instructor.

I use my awareness skills to flick my full beam on and off as and when required.
I also drive on the inside (that's the left lane in case you don't know) lane when the road is clear cos that's exactly where I'm supposed to be!

bucketybuck

MascotDec85 wrote: »

I use my awareness skills

If you cannot drive on a motorway (thats the big long straight road don't you know...) without using high beams then I am afraid I have to question your awareness skills.

hardCopy

bucketybuck wrote: »

If you cannot drive on a motorway (thats the big long straight road don't you know...) without using high beams then I am afraid I have to question your awareness skills.

Except for all the ones that are curved.

Rovi

bucketybuck wrote: »

If you cannot drive on a motorway (thats the big long straight road don't you know...) without using high beams then I am afraid I have to question your awareness skills.

hardCopy wrote: »

Except for all the ones that are curved.

And have lumps of debris/rubbish fallen off trucks and trailers and bits of shredded tyres in the main carriageway, and abandoned vehicles on the hard shoulder.

listermint

MascotDec85 wrote: »

No, I'm a driving instructor.

I use my awareness skills to flick my full beam on and off as and when required.
I also drive on the inside (that's the left lane in case you don't know) lane when the road is clear cos that's exactly where I'm supposed to be!

have to disagree here, your beams are not only destracting drivers in the distance ahead of you (rearview) but also you are distracting the oncoming drivers over the barrier the other side.

You should have no need for full beams on a motorway. I drive the M7 / M3 and M1 consistently there is no need for it bar annoying / endangering other road users and satisfying your own obvious failings.

listermint

Rovi wrote: »

And have lumps of debris/rubbish fallen off trucks and trailers and bits of shredded tyres in the main carriageway, and abandoned vehicles on the hard shoulder.

All of this can be seen with standard lights. Full beams would not have very much benefit beyond dazzling others.

of course you should use them sometimes
just dont use them when you can see drivers in front or coming in the opposite direction

Richard

Em, can learners drive on motorways?

cosmic

Richard wrote: »

Em, can learners drive on motorways?

Just because you pass your test doesn't mean you stop learning. I have my full license 1 and a half years now and still pop onto this forum for the odd bit of advice.

stoneill

Jasus - It's simple.

If you need to see the road then put on the full beams.
If you can see any other car - either the same side or the other side then turn off the full beams.
What's missing here is a bit of common sense.
If you are getting blinded by someone, chances are you are probably blinding them too.

exaisle

stoneill wrote: »

Jasus - It's simple.

If you need to see the road then put on the full beams.
If you can see any other car - either the same side or the other side then turn off the full beams.
What's missing here is a bit of common sense.
If you are getting blinded by someone, chances are you are probably blinding them too.

This makes total sense so I'm just going to quote it so you can all read it again....maybe it'll eventually sink in.

exaisle

listermint wrote: »

All of this can be seen with standard lights.

No, it can't, or at least, not if you want to avoid it.

If your low beam is adjusted correctly, it should illuminate an area of the road at most 70 metres in front of you. Full beam will illuminate an area approximately twice that distance.

Travelling at 120km per hour, 70 metres takes about 2 seconds to travel. If there is any kind of obstruction on the road, I really want more than 2 seconds to react.

Here's a link to the good folk at the University of Oklahoma Police Department:

http://www.ou.edu/oupd/nightdr.htm

Turpentine

Carter P Fly wrote: »

The space of time between there being an oncoming car on the opposite side of a motorway and there not being one is so short as to make the action of putting on your high beams pointless. Why concentrate on oncoming traffic and not on the road directly in front of you? If anything being a flick on when the roads free, flick off when theres a car in view is a distraction rather than an assistance.

If the simple act of changing between low and high beams is that much of a distraction for you when driving, you probably shouldn't be on a motorway in the first place.

Carter P Fly wrote: »

[rant]There is no reason to every use full beams on a motorway EVER. I think anyone caught doing so should be given penalty points and a kick in the face for being such a useless idiotic retard. [/endrant]

You have obviously never driven the M1/A1 between Dublin and Belfast. There are sections where there are no street-lights and the cats-eyes are practically non-existant.

Will you please stay off that road. The choice between you not being able to see where you're going and flustering yourself switching between beams means you'd be a danger to everyone else, no matter what.

MascotDec85

bucketybuck wrote: »

If you cannot drive on a motorway (thats the big long straight road don't you know...) without using high beams then I am afraid I have to question your awareness skills.

Read all of my posts and come back to me

listermint wrote: »

have to disagree here, your beams are not only destracting drivers in the distance ahead of you (rearview) but also you are distracting the oncoming drivers over the barrier the other side.

You should have no need for full beams on a motorway. I drive the M7 / M3 and M1 consistently there is no need for it bar annoying / endangering other road users and satisfying your own obvious failings.

Another one who obviously doesn't read threads/posts in full.

I stated full beam should/can be used when necessary and when it doesn't dazzle drivers on the other side of the carriageway or in drivers in front.

rab!dmonkey

stoneill wrote: »

Jasus - It's simple.

If you need to see the road then put on the full beams.
If you can see any other car - either the same side or the other side then turn off the full beams.
What's missing here is a bit of common sense.
If you are getting blinded by someone, chances are you are probably blinding them too.

Those are the rules I generally apply when deciding whether to use full beams or not.

The reason I started this thread was that I felt that I couldn't see very far down the road with dips. Traffic on the other carriageway does not light my side of the road as opposing traffic would on a road without a central reservation. I thought that it may have been the case that the central reservation and increased horizontal seperation of traffic might allow one to use full beams without blinding oncoming motorists, but it seems this is not the case.

In the OP I asked if I should dip my lights for oncoming traffic; obviously you should dip your lights for traffic directly ahead of you.

Frank Black

exaisle wrote: »

No, it can't, or at least, not if you want to avoid it.

If your low beam is adjusted correctly, it should illuminate an area of the road at most 70 metres in front of you. Full beam will illuminate an area approximately twice that distance.

Travelling at 120km per hour, 70 metres takes about 2 seconds to travel. If there is any kind of obstruction on the road, I really want more than 2 seconds to react.

Here's a link to the good folk at the University of Oklahoma Police Department:

http://www.ou.edu/oupd/nightdr.htm

Interesting - The desirable minimum stopping sight distance which is used in 120 km/hr Motorway design is 295m, though this can be relaxed to 215m. In other words as you travel the road you should be able to see an object of 0.26m height, 215m in front of you in order you to be able to stop safely.
If we assume that when driving with dipped headlights, one can only see 70m of road - then that would imply that driving at night on a motorway is inherently dangerous.

Del2005

black francis wrote: »

then that would imply that driving is inherently dangerous.

FYP

Personally I drive with full beams any time there isn't any traffic around, doesn't mater if it's a motorway or housing estate. The further I can see the better.