Should Fianna Fail dissolve?

Xenophile

I say yes for the following reasons and I am sure many members of this site will add some more.

1) In opposition historically FF has been very negative and continues to be so, in the present climate negative opposition for the purpose of trying to regain it's former "glory" only damages confidence and further adds to the doom and gloom that is so widespread thoughout our republic.

2) Fianna Fail will always be associated in the minds of younger people with failure, cronysm and self interest, in other words putting party before country.

3) Too many jaded pesonalites in F.F that have done more than well from Irish Politics over the last twenty years or more, Mr.Michael Martin and Mr. Willie O'Dea come to mind immediately.

Remedy : Dissolve the party and join other parties of their choice where they would be welcome and of course let some of them join the Indepentent benches.

It would be the decent thing to do.

So they wont do it.

ILikeBananas

I'd love if they did but realistically, we should they when they're polling at 20%?

On your point about being negative in opposition. Can you name any opposition in any country who are not very negative? That's the way politics works unfortunately.

If they ever want a chance at reclaiming their former glory then FF need to make some radical changes to their party. They need to actually stand for something. Their previous model of being the populist party of cronysm isn't going to fly anymore.

Sunnyisland

No way will FF dissolve, Sure they way things are going with there support in the polls and there very good performance in the local election in Dublin, They will be back in government next time. Irish people have very short memories when it comes to governments & elections.






Not that I would be voting for them.

Xenophile

I'd love if they did but realistically, we should they when they're polling at 20%?

People are angry and want an outlet to express their anger. This will not help the country.

On your point about being negative in opposition. Can you name any opposition in any country who are not very negative? Do you remember the "Tallaght Stategy .............Alan Dukes. F.G. ?

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Liam Byrne

Won't happen until Flash, Cillit Bang and all the others up their game to include the other 0.1% of bacteria and dirt.

theg81der

What goes up must go down and vsa versa. Low point has past why on earth would they disband?!

Manach

Unlikely they will do so, and then leave the only opposition to the present Government the leftist SF and various Socialist mini-Parties. Unfortunately, it is very difficult for new parties to make much of an impression.

My name is URL

I don't see what difference it would make tbh. Ireland's too small a pond to be worrying about what school people are swimming in at any given time.

Xenophile

Maybe better to have a Government with a very large majority where Government T.D.s can speak their minds out of integrity without undermining confidence.

I know the present majority is very large, but it is not the culture of the Dail govt. members to be critical of their own parties. I would be a lot more comfortable hearing an ex Fianna Fail T.D. opposing out of conviction if he or she were on the govt. side and FF only existed in the memory as the nightmare that they were.

Liam Byrne

Xenophile wrote: »

I would be a lot more comfortable hearing an ex Fianna Fail T.D. opposing out of conviction....

Conviction ? The only conviction you'll ever see from FF is the one they somehow manage to escape!

Speaking of which, where the f**k is the tribunal verdict on Ahern & Co ? That's 18 months overdue at that stage, no ? Has the current crisis allowed it to be brushed under the carpet ?

hallelujajordan

No, they shouldn't disband . . . on the basis that they are a democratic party and we (last time I checked) still live in a democracy. . They should (and will) reorganise, reinvent and then recampaign and once that is done, the people will decide whether or not they have a role in Irish politics . .

If they were to disband today then 1 in 5 people in Ireland would not have access to the representation they desire (based on most recent opinion polls).

Xenophile wrote: »

I say yes for the following reasons and I am sure many members of this site will add some more.

1) In opposition historically FF has been very negative and continues to be so, in the present climate negative opposition for the purpose of trying to regain it's former "glory" only damages confidence and further adds to the doom and gloom that is so widespread thoughout our republic.

And on this basis both Fine Gael ('Burn the Bondholders') and Labour ('Frankfurts way or Labours Way') should disband immediately. They each spent the last 4 years campaigning against every single FF policy only to adopt the majority of them as soon as they came into office !!

Mikel91

Erm lads I'm guessing from what your saying about Opposition parties and the Dáil in general you dont know much about our system.

Our system of Parliament is based off the westmisnter style.
In this system,well since the mid twenty century it has been where the Government makes law ands sets agenda,with as we see in the Dail it being the government versus the Opposition as opposed to Government versus the Paliament (As done in most European countrys).

FG & Lab were just the same as FF is today in opposition,but that is because of the system,not because of the Partys personal people.

To state FF should devolve shows that you have,well quite a lacking of knowledge beyond few headline stories and boards thread titles.I'm not trying to attack you but you'd may want to take a better look at a party before judging them(Controversial here I know).

Also you'd be quite surprised how the turn around is.I know plenty of people both with Political interest and none that said they would give them a chance as they have seen a turn around within the party.(Again this is going to cause controversy and angered replies,but lads in fairness this is the internet so rage all ye want.Just because that Party is rising in the polls again does not mean the masses are idiots or goldfish minded..Its just you may be a lil close minded =P.)

Avatarr

Do you not remember, he won the money on a horse and the dig out was from his "friends". Sure poor betie, as he says himself, "if only someone had told him about the bubble". €150000 pension, unbelievable.......

gaffer91

Its these kind of nonsense threads that are really dragging down the tone of the politics section...

As hallelujajordan says, they have the backing of 20% of the population (and are presently on a bit of an upswing as well). Why should 1 in 5 voters not be represented?

FF are by far the best opposition atm, offering a lot better than the kind of nonsense SF and the ULA are spouting.

Contrary to popular opinion on boards, FF have done many good things for the country since their foundation. It is not inconceivable that they can do such things again.

Should they dissolve?:rolleyes: FFS.

gaffer91

gaffer91 wrote: »

Contrary to popular opinion on boards, FF have done many good things for the country since their foundation. It is not inconceivable that they can do such things again.

Should they dissolve?:rolleyes: FFS.

What are these good things you speak of? Was it the creation and prolonged maintainance of the largest property bubble the world has ever seen? Was it the massive ineptitude, icompetence and corruption they displayed as they made a bad situation worse as that bubble burst? The creation of NAMA, a farcical entity that is mathematically certain to be nothing but a massive net drain on the state's finances? The unconditional, unlimited guarantee of banks that had been allowed to clock up phenomenal levels of debt apparently completley unsupervised and unbothered by a FF government that was only too happy to turn a blind eye to their reckless activities as long as they kept FF's developer friends well financed so that they in turn could keep the brown envelopes flowing to FF party headquarters?

The lies told to the Irish people that this had been the cheapest bailout ever? The lies told to us that there was not going to be an intervention by the EU/IMF even as the troika were getting comfortable in their hotel rooms?

Whatever good FF may have done, it is far, far outweighed by their complete and utter demolition of the Irish economy in the space of a decade.

A team of slightly trained chimpanzees could have done a similar job. In fact perhaps chimpanzees would have done a better job, as they do not have any pockets which can be stuffed with cash.

FF are a cancer on this country. We are currently in remission, but the chemo was not strong enough. The tumour has survived and is growing again. It is only a matter of time until we have a relapse.

gaffer91

Deleted User wrote: »

What are these good things you speak of? Was it the creation and prolonged maintainance of the largest property bubble the world has ever seen? Was it the massive ineptitude, icompetence and corruption they displayed as they made a bad situation worse as that bubble burst? The creation of NAMA, a farcical entity that is mathematically certain to be nothing but a massive net drain on the state's finances? The unconditional, unlimited guarantee of banks that had been allowed to clock up phenomenal levels of debt apparently completley unsupervised and unbothered by a FF government that was only too happy to turn a blind eye to the reckless activities of the banks as long as they kept their developer friends well financed so that they in turn could keep the brown envelopes flowing to FF party headquarters?

The lies told to the Irish people that this had been the cheapest bailout ever? The lies told to us that there was not going to be an intervention by the EU/IMF even as the troika were getting comfortable in their hotel rooms?

Nope, those would be the bad things. What do you want me to say? How can I defend with any credibility the disastrous Cowen government and unsustainable spending binges under Ahern?

But anyone who has any understanding of Irish history would tell you they have done many many good things. If you want me to list a few for you, I will. Not even going back that long, look at the peace process. FF were instrumental in its success, there is no debating that. This was an absolutely monumental achievement.

Fair play though, you included sufficient levels of anger in your post and made the same arguments that have been made 1000 times before to be guaranteed a lot of "thanks" from the usual crew who occupy these threads.

Mikel91

Deleted User wrote: »

What are these good things you speak of? Was it the creation and prolonged maintainance of the largest property bubble the world has ever seen? Was it the massive ineptitude, icompetence and corruption they displayed as they made a bad situation worse as that bubble burst? The creation of NAMA, a farcical entity that is mathematically certain to be nothing but a massive net drain on the state's finances? The unconditional, unlimited guarantee of banks that had been allowed to clock up phenomenal levels of debt apparently completley unsupervised and unbothered by a FF government that was only too happy to turn a blind eye to the reckless activities of the banks as long as they kept their developer friends well financed so that they in turn could keep the brown envelopes flowing to FF party headquarters?

The lies told to the Irish people that this had been the cheapest bailout ever? The lies told to us that there was not going to be an intervention by the EU/IMF even as the troika were getting comfortable in their hotel rooms?

Whatever good FF may have done, it is far, far outweighed by their complete and utter demolition of the Irish economy in the space of a decade.

A team of slightly trained chimpanzees could have done a similar job. In fact perhaps chimpanzees would have done a better job, as they do not have any pockets which can be stuffed with cash.

FF are a cancer on this country. We are currently in remission, but the chemo was not strong enough. The tumour has survived and is growing again. It is only a matter of time until we have a relapse.

Responsible for the creation of over 600,000 new jobs that were both well paid and skilled,More than doubled the average industrial wage,Made Ireland one of the best places for Foreign Direct investment,,reduced infant mortality rates and halved coronary mortality rates,,Provided 300,000 additional healthcare treatments a year,With health care investments life expectancy rose from 76 in 1997 to 80 in 2006,Reduced cancer rates by 15% after investing 1 billion into cancer care,created 10,000 teaching jobs and reduced class sizes and produced the largest school building program,invested 6 billion into the road network halving road deaths by 50% and connecting most major areas with dublin, Renovated our public transport system creating the most modern Rail and bus system(Although there time delays are still ****e hah),With tourism increased the numbers from 5 million to 8 million and also increased old age pention rates by 3 times the cost of living,unemployment benefit by 3.25 and child benefit by 8.25.


Oh and these are from 1997 alone.

K-9

Xenophile wrote: »

I say yes for the following reasons and I am sure many members of this site will add some more.

1) In opposition historically FF has been very negative and continues to be so, in the present climate negative opposition for the purpose of trying to regain it's former "glory" only damages confidence and further adds to the doom and gloom that is so widespread thoughout our republic.

FG and Labour did the exact same in the last Government and they've proceeded to do an about turn in Government. People swallowed the "burn the bondholder" and no property tax electioneering.

2) Fianna Fail will always be associated in the minds of younger people with failure, cronysm and self interest, in other words putting party before country.

3) Too many jaded pesonalites in F.F that have done more than well from Irish Politics over the last twenty years or more, Mr.Michael Martin and Mr. Willie O'Dea come to mind immediately.

I heard the same in 1987 and 1997.

nesf

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Won't happen until Flash, Cillit Bang and all the others up their game to include the other 0.1% of bacteria and dirt.

And because of AH quality replies like the above rather than anything resembling reasoned discussion this thread is now closed.

Really guys, improve your quality of response.