Feeling Hypocritical at Christmas?

Vojera

Bit of a rant, but here goes:

I've lived in Dublin for almost ten years and I'm happily engaged and living with my partner for the last three (we're together over six years). Neither of us is the "lesbian stereotype" (yeah, I know) so we could easily get away with pretending to be straight if we wanted to, but in our day to day lives up here, we're happy to be ourselves and we have a great network of friends who see us as ourselves and not our sexualities. My partner's family all know about us and have really welcomed me with open arms. They treat me exactly the same as they do partners of other family members, and subject me to the same slagging and family stuff, which I love because it really shows that they don't make any difference with me.

The problem lies with my family. While my partner's family are from Dublin and live nearby, I'm from typical back-of-beyonds Donegal and things aren't as easy there. I'm not ashamed of who I am or the wonderful relationship that I have, but my mother has asked me not to be "out out" on account of my granny who is 85 and who might not take the news that well. (I'm well aware that this is probably for my mum's sake too that she's asking). So, one of my cousins knows, all my aunties and uncles know and of course my immediate family, and they're all fine with it, but in the wider family and community no one knows and probably don't even suspect seeing as I'm only home once or twice a year anyway.

But this Christmas my sister is organising a big family get together. A few of us who have moved abroad will be home and we're all making the effort, and while normally I'd love to see everyone, I just don't think I'm up to it. The idea of lying when I'm asked if I'm seeing someone, of taking off my engagement ring, of denying the lovely life we have built together really makes me sad, and a little bit sick. But for the sake of an easy life I might just do it. I feel like such a hypocrite. I'm always saying that it's terrible that anyone would have to hide who they are and that people should be more accepting, but I'm not brave enough to take the stand with my own family. I'm actually engaged, I'm planning a wedding in two years' time and half the people I want to invite don't even know I'm gay.

I know I'm not the only person who has to do this. Has anyone any experience of coming out in a rural setting or to "old-school" people like my granny? I'd love to hear them, just to know I'm not the only one

</rant>

Slang_Tang

Hi. My family is from the "the back of the beyonds" too, so I'll give my two cents, for what it's worth.

I think it's unfair to put pressure on yourself because of the attitudes of your family. How long ago did you come out? Dan Savage has a great video on coming out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SgkviV9GIY. He basically argues to give your family a year, but after that year they do not have the right to be insensitive to you.

You're probably right that your mother is doing it for her own sake. I imagine that in her head the fact that you're gay is a bigger deal than it is in reality. In my family, my mum and dad made a big deal about my being gay until my aunt had a go at them and informed them bluntly that no one gave a s**t. They were actually much better after that because this idea they had in their heads of everyone gossiping about my sexuality was banished.

Have you rung your sister or your mum to see what sort of reaction you would get if you tell them you'd like to bring your partner? Maybe they'd surprise you?

If I were in your position, I'd make a stand and say I'm not coming without my partner. You absolutely have the right to say that. But try diplomacy first.

And grandparents in rural areas might really surprise you. The worst I've heard of is not understanding or bemusement. People at that age really seem to have a live and let-live attitude.

Best of luck. Do let us know how it goes.

baby and crumble

Hey OP,

I'm in a similar boat, and I have experienced a bit of both being in your shoes, and also your partners. My partner isn't out to her gran either, and everyone is telling her she shouldn't because it'll "kill" her, apparently... TBH if you ask me her gran knows right well- her granddaughter has been 'single' for 8 years now and her 'best friend' comes to every family even there is and invites her to her brothers wedding. yeah, best friends. But, the pretense continues.

When I came out, my Dad wasn't best pleased, and he asked me not to be too out, like you, in the local area (not a million miles away from Dublin, but enough away to be a small town with a corresponding attitude, or at least he thought so). That was 8 years ago. This year he apologised for ever asking me to do that. Now my partner is welcome at whatever family gatherings go on, and while Dad doesn't scream it from the rooftops, it's not a big deal.

My point is, families are weird. I hate that I'm seen as 'the best friend' with my partners family, but you know what, that's just the way life is, sometimes. You'll get people coming on here telling you to just come out, in a blaze of glory at your family party, and screw everyone else, it's your life. And I'm sure there's a great temptation to do that. The problem is that I'm sure your Mum expects some massive scandal, and tbh coming out with a big announcement at a party would be. But answering your standard questions about if you're seeing someone with the truth, will mean that your situation is just seen as normal and accepted, so most people won't bat an eyelid.

I'd agree with the poster before me who said that older people have a live and let live attitude- I do think this is the case for a lot of people. But if you do decide to go against your parents wishes, and tell your gran and everyone else there about your fiancee, well you need to be able to take any consequences too, whatever they might be.

I realise this hasn't even been remotely helpful, I'm sure. But you're not the only one who has to hide certain things- sometimes that knowledge helps, I find...

Neyite

Has anyone ever asked your granny how she feels about homosexuality? Or is your mother /family just assuming that because she is old that she would not approve?

The reason I say that is my aunt who is a nun for over 60 years, from a very very rural irish background and 82 years of age to to boot has absolutely no problem with gays, thinks its perfectly normal for men and women to form loving same sex bonds, and gets quite annoyed at any remark that could be construed as disrespectful to the gay community.

Yet my mother who came from a very large UK city with lots of gay clubs in her locality is quite clueless, a bit judgemental, and sometimes disparaging in her remarks.

I think that older people can be less likely to worry about "what people might think" than middle aged. Could you suggest an introductory visit with your wife to be to your gran before the big reunion?

wonderfulname

At a family wedding last year my gran shared a table with a very gay middle aged gay couple who discussed possibly every gay related topic under the sun that you generally would think the better of discussing in front of an 82 year old woman from a working class town in the midlands. My aunts were terrified by this, there were even words with the bride in advance with a view to moving her somewhere more appropriate.

She was a bit confused at the conversation, I'll give you that, but all she had to say about them after was that they were two "very lovely men". I don't think older people deserve the reputation they have when it comes to homophobia, as Neyite points to up there they're opinion is rarely asked, just assumed. I also find the idea that the revelation a young relative is gay would shatter them a tad strange. If there's a genuine reason to believe your gran wouldn't take it well, and that doesn't include that she's 85 and Ireland was highly conservative when she was younger, then sure, keep mum, but if not I fail to see the problem.

Vojera

Personally, I think granny would be fine. We're very close, I spend loads of time with her when I'm at home and I ring her often as well, and she's not stupid, I'm pretty sure she knows or has guessed. She knows me and the other half own guinea pigs together and everything and she knows that she often comes home with me as well. I think my mum underestimates her. The only time I've ever heard her talk about gays at all was when David Norris was running for president and she said "Oh, he'll have the Aras full of gays!" and I said "and sure what odds would that be?" and she laughed. I think that ye are right and there's a lot of presumption.

I really think it's my mum that's the problem. I came out to her six years ago and she didn't take it that well. She is coming around but as my other half says, she's had more than enough time and she's taking the piss at this stage. But I have told her out straight that my wedding WILL happen in two years, even though she insisted I couldn't get married until granny died (!!! I know she's 85 but she could live another ten years!) and she admitted she was wrong to say that.

My other half won't be at the party anyway, she has plans with her own family, so it's not a case that I want a big presentation or to make a big deal. I just want to be able to be honest about us. She understands the situation but it's not really fair to her either.

My granny isn't going to be at the party, or at least will be going home early, so this evening I'm going to ring my mum and tell her I want to be able to be honest with the wider family. If she still insists on keeping it from Granny then I'll do that for Christmas, but the rest of the family won't give a crap, I know they won't. They'll just shrug and say "fair enough" and won't treat me any differently.

Thanks a million for all your responses. It has really helped just to write it all down and hear about your experiences and opinions.

Plek Trum

Hi OP,
your story is somewhat similar to my own in some regards. I'm from a small market town in Kerry, left for college (years ago), discovered my sexuality, had a few girlfriends - now settled and living back in Kerry with my partner for the last 10 years.

I understand where you are coming from, and the only advice I can offer from my own experience is try not to start living two different lives at home in Donegal and another in Dublin. If your family know already then you are practically there.

People take their direction from you - go home, chat as normal about your partner, how Christmas went for you both, the event she has planned with her family etc. The more casual and relaxed YOU are about things, the more likely others are to become the same. Not talking about issues or deliberately avoiding them only puts a white elephant in the room. I'm not saying ram it home all day everyday or go on some gay crusade, but just be yourself.

As for your Nan - in my experience, they are deceptively tuned in and quite accepting of things! While I have never spoken the actual words to my Nan that my partner and I are a couple, it was my Nan who took the lead years ago, asking were we happy together, what a lovely person she thought she was and how she is one of the family now. I realise how fortunate I am for sure.

Be yourself, go home and celebrate your Christmas with your family and try not to hide things. If people ask about the ring, tell them, its all in the approach. " Yes, I know, I got such a surprise when she gave me the ring, I love it ,thanks! Its a relief that we can get our relationship recognised now the same as everyone else - no invites done yet but I'd love if you could make it. Plenty of notice, two years down the line" and a big smile.

You control the situation - we had a major family event years back, my partner was relatively new (2 years or so together) at that stage and my Mum was unsure about bringing her on account of the wider family & relatives not knowing. I politely explained to Mum that everyone else would be bringing their girlfriends / boyfriends and really, it was much better to get it over and done with in the one go than sneaking and hiding around, drawing things out. To be honest, no-one really was concerned, the event was the focus and when family members did find out, they were fine as they had all felt she was lovely when they did meet!

Best of luck, stay true to yourself and enjoy your Christmas, x

OldNotWIse

I have a somewhat similiar situation. My Mother (who pretends to be so accepting and open-minded) will still insist on introducing my girlfriend as my "friend" to family - even though they all know I'm Gay!
Also, my girlfriend is not out to her parents (not really an issue a lot of the time as they live in a different country) but I do feel somewhat be-littled knowing that she has never told her family about me and she has blocked them from FB in case they see her status. She acts like it is normal to be so closeted and makes me feel like we are doing something really sinful. I know that everybody has different experiences and feelings towards being gay and I would never give her an ultimatum, I try to support her but at times I get so angry! I feel like saying, "I went through the coming out process and it wasn't exactly a walk in the park. I risked friendships and relations with family in order to be myself. I (like a lot of gay people) have had to put up with slagging, prejudice etc in order to openly live the life that is right for me and now I have to act like a second class citizen, sneaking around like I have something to hide." I suppose I interpret her actions as a sign of disrespect for me, herself and our relationship and I dont know if I am being unreasonable to expect her to make some changes. I dont want big monumental actions or public displays of affection. I just want to be able to live my life without censor, and at the moment I feel like I am being closeted by proxy and I hate that.

Vojera

An update has been a long time coming, but here it is for anyone who is interested.

I ended up not going to the get together. I just couldn't make myself lie about my partner so I made alternate plans and I'm not sorry I did.

However, my partner then came up to me for New Year after her family commitments were taken care of, and as soon as Granny heard she was coming she demanded I bring her down for a visit. When we arrived, Granny shook my partner's hand, gave her a big hug and said "I'm so glad to finally meet you, I hear so much about you" and went on to say that if she hadn't demanded the meeting they might never have met. And it was great, they got on really well and when we were leaving Granny said to her to be sure to call in again the next time she visits. So wow, that went amazingly!

Now, just this weekend past we've booked our wedding. We haven't told everyone because we're not paying the deposit until next week and I don't want to jinx it in case we lose our date, but I have told my mum and she is fighting me on it at every turn, from when I mentioned we were looking up wedding fairs to telling her we'd made an appointment to pay the deposit. But even though it's hurtful, at least I now realise that the problem was hers all along and everyone else is happy for us. She's had almost seven years to accept us now and seems to be doing everything she can to stop us getting married because God forbid the neighbours would find out. But I've finally found the courage to tell her that this is what we want, it's our decision and the day will go ahead with or without her. Here's hoping she'll change her mind before March of next year.

Thanks again to everyone for their advice. It really helped.

baby and crumble

well done OP. Your Mam will come around, they usually do, especially when there's hats and frocks involved.

Dark Chocolate

Thanks for that update, Vojera and it's good to hear that things went well with your Granny. Was there anything, either said or unsaid, that confirmed to you that now that she'd met your partner, that she 'knew' all along or that she knows now? Sometimes it's just a 'feel' thing, but it's there. As has been suggested, your Granny may be of a state of mind that assumed this was the case anyway but didn't make any mention of it so as not to make an issue of it and deal with it as a matter of fact. An attitude far more mature and progressive than your mother has shown in all this time.

How did your mother deal with the meeting at new year? I may have missed something but I don't know from reading above whether she's met your partner before. I'd imagine she's only thinking of herself and the 'scandal' that will befall her if the neighbours knew *bless yourself 3 times* [Oh dear Christ, don't let the neighbours find out, I'll never be able to show me face in mass again] and not your wellbeing and happiness. If that is the case, it's pretty sad that she doesn't have the courage of her convictions and shamefully tries shifting the blame for your Granny's sake.

peter barrins

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