Government to stop downloads

ANSI

What will happen when this comes in? Will it be just like eircom and the pirate bay where one can bypass eircom through a proxy?

chin_grin

Where there's a proxy there's a way. :pac:

tfitzgerald

Fcuk em! Bring back fianna fail

peckerhead

Minister of State for Enterprise Seán Sherlock is to publish an order early in the new year that is expected to allow music publishers, film producers and other parties to go to court to prevent internet service providers from allowing their customers access to pirate websites.

Good luck with that.

ANSI

chin_grin wrote: »

Where there's a proxy there's a way. :pac:

I just wondered what is the point of the law then

Ste-

ANSI wrote: »

I just wondered what is the point of the law then

To stop the people who don't know about proxies.
Most Joe soaps can now download music from torrents. The same people wouldn't know about using a proxy and so fourth.


Nothing about the quality of music declining since 2006 tho!

Glenbhoy

ANSI wrote: »

I just wondered what is the point of the law then

To dissuade EMI from suing the state as the earlier judgement did state that their rights were being infringed, but that existing law meant that there was no protection available to avoid this happening.

Glenbhoy

Ste- wrote: »

To stop the people who don't know about proxies.
Most Joe soaps can now download music from torrents. The same people wouldn't know about using a proxy and so fourth.


Nothing about the quality of music declining since 2006 tho!

Maybe the quality has declined because the super profits are no longer there to encourage or unearth talent? Maybe the lack of profits have meant that record companies are not prepared to take a risk on unknown or non-formulaic musicians and hence we get the regurgitations of ****e that have been getting ever more frequent.

Catch 22 possibly?

That said, if the music/film industry was willing to offer their product for legal downloads at a fraction of the current pricing, many of us would be happy to pay for it (if pricing was right, demand could be massive, large multiples of what it has ever been before). They've got to realise their old business model is dead, they've got to be inventive enough to figure out how to make the industry profitable again.

Kintarō Hattori

http://hmv.com/hmvweb/displayProductDetails.do?ctx=280;0;-1;-1;-1&sku=870741
€19 for a 3 year old album.

http://hmv.com/hmvweb/displayProductDetails.do?ctx=-1;5;-1;-1;-1&sku=767229&_tag.WT.ac=dvd-PBODY-DVD_HOMEPAGE_BESTSELLER1-767229
€15 for a DVD.

Items such as these might be a reason why sales are down.

ANSI

Ste- wrote: »

. The same people wouldn't know about using a proxy and so fourth.

what % of computer users would you say know about proxies?

JonathanAnon

ANSI wrote: »

what % of computer users would you say know about proxies?

Well the users seem to evolve as necessity dictates... What percentage of people would have known about torrents a few years ago.. It certainly would deter another percentage of people from downloading, but I'd say that most people would learn how to use a proxy...

Next step is for the ISP to block proxy server access..

tfitzgerald

Anyone with the name of a good proxy I would be grateful for a p m . Thanks

ANSI

JonathanAnon wrote: »

Well the users seem to evolve as necessity dictates... What percentage of people would have known about torrents a few years ago.. It certainly would deter another percentage of people from downloading, but I'd say that most people would learn how to use a proxy...

Next step is for the ISP to block proxy server access..

we will have to proxy to a proxy..:D

mordeith

They don't always get their way
http://www.edri.org/edrigram/number8.14/belgium-isps-pirate-bay

kirving

The government are a complete joke, they won't stand up for anything. Delighted I didn't vote for them, and never will at this rate.

If the prices charged in shops weren't so ridiculous, then I could have some empathy with the record companies, otherwise I don't care. Actually, I got a "Triple-Play" Movie the other day - Blu-Ray, DVD and Digital copy - thats a nice way of doing it, good thinking by someone. A flatt fee for all online digital media would be another welcome solution.

The real truth is that people download movies (and music) that they would never, ever buy. Saying "we lost €50,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 last year to illegal downloads" is rubbish - people never would have bought the stuff anyway, they download it because they can.

Also, I could drive to a friends house and watch a DVD with them. Thats sharing. Nothing illegal about that. "Lets sue all car manufacturers for facilitating behaviour that's ruining the music industry." "Lets ban pockets because people steal things from shops." Only short of that kind of logic.

Censoring the internet is what happens in North Korea, not in a civilised country. Internet access should be a basic human right at this stage. For the record, I don't illegally download, and am paitenly waiting Sony to release Video Unlimited.

LoGiE

So we have a goverment willing to 'dance to the tune' of private companies...why break the habit of a lifetime.

CD sales are down because nobody uses CD players! It's a dead format end of... with amazon and apple pushing stuff online this is hardly going to improve. In a year or two people wont be downloading anyway, it'll be streamed from the web and sites will pop up quicker then they can be banned.

Sadly it's likely to become the norm for large corporations to lobby some luddite polliticians barely able to turn on their TV's to make decisions for their tech literate constituents. The question is where will it end?

Myrddin

Glenbhoy wrote: »

Maybe the quality has declined because the super profits are no longer there to encourage or unearth talent? Maybe the lack of profits have meant that record companies are not prepared to take a risk on unknown or non-formulaic musicians and hence we get the regurgitations of ****e that have been getting ever more frequent.

When you've people like this



who can make as much profit return as people like this



you have to ask yourself, why would they invest in finding solid musical talent...when they can just fabricate it themselves? That's why the industry is in decline.

To echo what was mentioned previously, where there's a will there's a way. Torrents only became popular when people learned how to use them. The same thing will happen proxies with one-click proxy tools.

dpaulod

Just get a seedbox and download outside Fine Gael & Labour's jurisdiction.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seedbox

http://torrentfreak.com/10-reasons-why-you-need-a-seedbox-080715/

:D:D

_underscore

dpaulod wrote: »

Just get a seedbox and download outside Fine Gael & Labour's jurisdiction.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seedbox

http://torrentfreak.com/10-reasons-why-you-need-a-seedbox-080715/

:D:D

I agree, for torrents this is definitely the way to go. VPS's are pretty cheap to rent these days, and could cost next to nothing if a few people chipped in.

--

Also, how will this law apply to filehosts like Rapidshare, Filesonic, Fileserve etc.. These sites are solely for the purpose of pirating so they can hardly be blocked, right?

I'm guessing what they will be able to do is block the message boards, forums where links are posted?

Or is it just torrent sites/services that are the main focus with this legislation?

unkel

Ste- wrote: »

To stop the people who don't know about proxies.
Most Joe soaps can now download music from torrents. The same people wouldn't know about using a proxy and so fourth.

+1

And I think we'll be good on usenet for at least another decade or so

syklops

When the government figures out what I am doing in my SSH tunnel, then I'll get worried.

TheJoebocop

They'll try but it'll still be way too easy to get into the blocked websites,just put the IP Adress into your search bar and 99% you will get in.

yoyo

_underscore wrote: »

Also, how will this law apply to filehosts like Rapidshare, Filesonic, Fileserve etc.. These sites are solely for the purpose of pirating so they can hardly be blocked, right?

Far from it, some companies use Rapidshare et al. to trasfer large files as they are cheap, and not illegal (they remove pirated material on request). Forums to get links may be come blocked and you may need to proxy your way in, or even VPN... Tor is a type of proxy any gobsh!te can install and use

Nick

Glenbhoy

EnterNow wrote: »

When you've people like this



who can make as much profit return as people like this



you have to ask yourself, why would they invest in finding solid musical talent...when they can just fabricate it themselves? That's why the industry is in decline.

To echo what was mentioned previously, where there's a will there's a way. Torrents only became popular when people learned how to use them. The same thing will happen proxies with one-click proxy tools.

In fairness Jedward work damned hard, that's something that many bands are going to have to do in the future. They should look at their music as adverts for their live gigs and that's where the money will be. As I said before the short lived model upon which record companies made their money is fast on the way out, and from what i've seen of the contracts they offer to performers, i can't say it's really a bad thing.

msg11

I used to download music and videos, don't bother anymore. Don't see the point really, I can get any video on YouTube and on my iPhone I have apps for radio stations that are online only, hardly any ads no djs going on like a wordsmith.

As for films I watch them online, no need to download them. If I really like a film I will go too see it in the cinema, big screen, excellent sound. I only watch films once , never seen the need to always have a copy of it.

What really pisses me off is there is more important legislation that needs to be wrote into law. Two off hand, the bill to do with puppy farms is ready to go and no one will sign off on it also there is a bill to do with people attacking emergency service workers again ready to go.

But no the government are more worried about a few downloads and keeping some company happy. Who the **** do the they think they are treating the government like that, we will take you too court. I tell you know, UPC have more balls than the government, they didn't back down and won too.

Also where are they getting these massive figures from? When I was downloading, I was downloading for the sake of it. Put it this way, I wouldn't go into a shop and buy 3/4 of the crap I was downloading, some of the stuff I never even listened too. Also are the government really loosing out? We pay vat on our internet charges and again back to the point, people wouldn't even buy it in the first place to begin with.

What are they going to do, block port 80.

They wouldn't be able to achieve this without some help from the Chinese, and then the realism and the cost of executing this, will hit them.

CD sales, I was in a big music store in Liffey valley on friday, I haven't being in one in over 3 years, and I didn't expect to see that the CD section was reduced by over 50% with it's space replaced to display DVD's instead.

The delivery of music has changed, I still buy the odd vinyl from Discogs, etc, and CD's on amazon, and even if they implemented this, I still would have to buy some music this way, and digitally.

Isn't there more pressing things at hand which those politicians can be thinking about.

I don't remember seeing this being in the '4 year plan'.

vibe666

NoDrama wrote: »

They wouldn't be able to achieve this without some help from the Chinese, and then the realism and the cost of executing this, will hit them.

a good point, and if the chinese and their "great firewall of china" can't keep people from circumventing it and expressing their anti-government views online, what hope does the government here have of doing it?

add to that all the hoo-haa in the EU about censorship etc. and this is going nowhere fast.

Hijpo

vibe666 wrote: »

NoDrama wrote: »

They wouldn't be able to achieve this without some help from the Chinese, and then the realism and the cost of executing this, will hit them.

a good point, and if the chinese and their "great firewall of china" can't keep people from circumventing it and expressing their anti-government views online, what hope does the government here have of doing it?

add to that all the hoo-haa in the EU about censorship etc. and this is going nowhere fast.

Scaremongering. Technophobe parents will **** themselfs when the government says "well do you if your ip is found to have blah blah blah" the parents beat there kids into submission with mice. Although this could open up a decent market for techs to block ftp ports and the like.

Hmmmm....

Actually wasnt this topic all the rage about 10 or 12 years ago aswell?

nesf

yoyo wrote: »

Far from it, some companies use Rapidshare et al. to trasfer large files as they are cheap, and not illegal (they remove pirated material on request). Forums to get links may be come blocked and you may need to proxy your way in, or even VPN...

Having a VPN is handy anyway. BBC iPlayer, Hulu etc. Most of the free ones aren't downloading friendly though.

vibe666

Hijpo wrote: »

Scaremongering. Technophobe parents will **** themselfs when the government says "well do you if your ip is found to have blah blah blah" the parents beat there kids into submission with mice. Although this could open up a decent market for techs to block ftp ports and the like.

and also a good market for mice. :pac:

Myrddin

unkel wrote: »

+1

And I think we'll be good on usenet for at least another decade or so

And God said, thoust shall haveth Usenet until the 2nd coming :cool:

Glenbhoy wrote: »

In fairness Jedward work damned hard

I'm sure they did,it's a tough act being a cretin 24 hours a day. Still though, the kiddies love it.

Khannie

LoGiE wrote: »

CD sales are down because nobody uses CD players!

This is what I think every time I read about CD sales being down. You don't hear them whining about VHS sales so much. Who the hell uses CD's any more anyway? I genuinely can't remember the last time I played a CD.

syklops wrote: »

When the government figures out what I am doing in my SSH tunnel, then I'll get worried.

They're not worried about anyone who's smart enough to use an SSH tunnel to be honest. You're the last 10%. It's the 90% who have been told through word of mouth that it's easy and convenient to download torrents (and who have discovered this to be true) that they're after.

unkel wrote: »

I think we'll be good on usenet for at least another decade or so

I wouldn't be so sure tbh. Would be easy enough to block access to usenet through very simple packet inspection and / or port number and / or end point.

bastados

I see eircom are now under pressure by the Data protection commission to give up their 3 strikes program after messing up 300 customers with wrongful first strike warnings.

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/item/25072-eircom-has-21-days-to/

Myrddin

Khannie wrote: »

I wouldn't be so sure tbh. Would be easy enough to block access to usenet through very simple packet inspection and / or port number and / or end point.

Don't forget this is Ireland we're talking about. Plenty of legitimate stuff on Usenet too.

Khannie

EnterNow wrote: »

Don't forget this is Ireland we're talking about....

...where the government rolls over for any mid-sized corporation. :pac:

EnterNow wrote: »

Plenty of legitimate stuff on Usenet too.

Same with torrents. I'll bet you tpb links lots of linux distros for example. Torrents are actually a brilliant technology. Unfortunately for the movie companies it's one that's very well suited to the distribution of movies.

nesf

Khannie wrote: »

Same with torrents. I'll bet you tpb links lots of linux distros for example. Torrents are actually a brilliant technology. Unfortunately for the movie companies it's one that's very well suited to the distribution of movies.

They're not blocking torrent traffic though but pirate websites to make it hard for the masses.

Blocking torrent traffic would be *interesting* in the backlash from industry.]

Edit: Completely misread what Khannie said, ignore this.

Myrddin

Khannie wrote: »

...where the government rolls over for any mid-sized corporation.

Well that, & then wraps itself in a thick duvet of complete & total ineptness Trust me, they'll still be looking for the any key while everyone learns all about proxies.

nesf

Khannie wrote: »

I wouldn't be so sure tbh. Would be easy enough to block access to usenet through very simple packet inspection and / or port number and / or end point.

It's simple enough to encrypt your Usenet traffic though. Any decent provider will provide it as standard. Then a VPN will get you around the problem of end point. Etc.

It's very, very hard to stop this kind of thing unless you lock down someone's internet connection severely.

Tea_Bag

its such a pity there is so much hate for torrents. its a brilliant piece of technology. Id argue that its the best distribution protocol since the Internet itself.

wouldn't throttling p2p affect XBox consoles?

this legislation could restart the really bad piracy market, the one where people sell and make profit from illegal downloads.

nesf

Tea_Bag wrote: »

its such a pity there is so much hate for torrents. its a brilliant piece of technology. Id argue that its the best distribution protocol since the Internet itself.

wouldn't throttling p2p affect XBox consoles?

this legislation could restart the really bad piracy market, the one where people sell and make profit from illegal downloads.

If they throttle BT traffic in general there will be a lot of legitimate stuff blocked. I wouldn't be surprised to see the likes of UPC challenging such if it came down to it.

vibe666

Tea_Bag wrote: »

this legislation could restart the really bad piracy market, the one where people sell and make profit from illegal downloads.

changing from people downloading stuff themselves and only hurting big corporations, back to the old days of buying pirated dvd's from boot fares and funding terrorists! :eek:

can't wait for that old argument to come back and bite them.

Rabidlamb

Day 1: Block all access to popular torrent sites.
Day 2: Most searched Google term:"How to get around block to piratebay"
Day 3: Normal service resumes :rolleyes:
Day 4: EU tells Irish Courts that initial block was illegal in the first place.

phonejacker

I'm a bit confused about all of this so, after January will I be able to download music of <SNIP>

Please do not post links to illegal content or encourage illegal downloading on boards, thanks