2FM Time signal / News on the hour

Johnny901

I just have to get this off my chest...

The 2FM time signal on the hour... it is rarely correct and bugs me a little, but today they took the biscuit, after the time signal pips, the news reader announced that it was 2 pm, 2 minutes early at 1.58 pm.

Now even the most unprofessional radio station down the country can get that right, thought it was very sloppy of the National broadcaster.

Is it just me getting out of the bed on the wrong side...

Johnny901

Before anyone asks, my clock was to the mili second, the factory I work in has quality control issues and the clock is linked to the Rugby time signal.

Trick of the Tail

I agree, this time signal thing lately is ridiculous. If its a time signal it should be accurate, if its not it just illustrates how sloppy they are in that they can't get their timings right!

A.

Dirigent

The one that gets me is the lunchtime (12:45) radio news on Today FM. Their gingle is "first with the news" yet it's normally 12:47 or 12:48 when they finish the ad break and go to the news.

padd b1975

9pm news on RTE 1 telly never starts on time either.

neris

98fm always seem to 2 minutes ahead of the hour aswell. News on alot of the stations now is the exact same stories with the exact same script

Johnny901

The point that I am making is is not the news on the hour starting early or late, its that 2FM have a time signal to mark the hour and it is rarely correct. But for it to be 2 minutes early is really silly.

The RTE radio 1 time signal on the hour is bang on and you could set your watch to it.

2FM should either have the time signal correct or drop it.

BrianD

You'll find that many stations in Dublin go into the news early and it's not accidental either.

Russell_James

The 2FM one bugs me bit time, so much so I actually went on the Colm Hayes show to bitch about it!

The noise in the jingle is a time signal, which to all of us means that at the final beep it is hh:00:00. 2fm, in their infinite wisdom thought it would be great to build this sound, recognised worldwide as a time signal, into their news jingle. It's not that it is inaccurate, it is also misleading.

It is seriously frustrating!

Trick of the Tail

What did Mr Hayes have to say in defence of his awful timekeeping?

europa11

alinton wrote: »

What did Mr Hayes have to say in defence of his awful timekeeping?

"Someone buy me a watch for Christmas"


.....or come to think of it, maybe he's chasing down a job on "Morning Ireland" - the home of bad timekeeping!

Yakuza

europa11 wrote: »

"Someone buy me a watch for Christmas"


.....or come to think of it, maybe he's chasing down a job on "Morning Ireland" - the home of bad timekeeping!

They usually get the minutes right, it's the hour they get wrong

coylemj

Johnny901 wrote: »

Before anyone asks, my clock was to the mili second, the factory I work in has quality control issues and the clock is linked to the Rugby time signal.

The UK signal has been broadcast from Anthorn in Cumbria for over a year. It's contracted out by the National Physical Laboratory (NPL) so if the service provider changes, so does the transmitter location.

http://www.npl.co.uk/science-technology/time-frequency/time/products-and-services/msf-radio-time-signal

Don't worry, the frequency is the same as the one they used in Rugby (60 kHz) so you're picking up the new transmitter.

Johnny901

Interesting Coylemj, thanks for that

kilomike31

This morning at 9:01:40 they had what sounds like a 'time signal' and then the news reader comes on and says "It's 9 o'clock...". I can imagine people around the country setting their watches based on this !

I've heard this kind of thing now for a year or so. I even complained by email to 2FM but I was essentially dismissed with 'nobody else has complained'. That may be an insight into how standards are now set up there at RTE; never mind whether something is correct or not, how many complaints did it create ?

Have news readers been pre-recorded or have they been told not to deviate from the script no matter what time it is ? I hear other stations like Newstalk are very capable of giving the correct time (to within a minute anyway).

RTE always had a good name for being very professional; I wonder if 2FM has developed a different culture ?

mike65

For timekeeping just check Today FM during the last Word, I doubt Cooper has handed over to the newsroom at 6 O'Clock even once! (and if he did, it was accidental)

kilomike31

mike65 wrote: »

For timekeeping just check Today FM during the last Word, I doubt Cooper has handed over to the newsroom at 6 O'Clock even once! (and if he did, it was accidental)

Yes, I know what you mean, but what bugs me most, and it would appear the OP, is that they broadcast what sounds like a time signal and the news person then gives out the wrong time.

It's bad enough not being able to time the program changeovers correctly but then 2FM go on to give the wrong time. If they can't get something as BASIC as this right can you trust them with anything else ?

mike65

Radio Ones Morning Ireland seem to enjoy telling you its an hour earlier/later than it is. Happens a few times a week.

Johnny901

That's just human error, 2FM is by design and they have been told it appears from the above.

Stripey Cat

Johnny901 wrote: »

That's just human error,

It's a weird thing that they can't figure out a way to stop doing it.

Just off the top of my head, could they not use a service like
http://helvetictoc.com/ to double check the time, instead of a very small clock on a very far away wall, or whatever it is they use now.

Losty Dublin

Stripey Cat wrote: »

It's a weird thing that they can't figure out a way to stop doing it.

Just off the top of my head, could they not use a service like
http://helvetictoc.com/ to double check the time, instead of a very small clock on a very far away wall, or whatever it is they use now.

In the Today FM studio is the most almighty huge big clock that gives the time in no uncertain terms. If the exact time is being missed then it's evidentially a PD call so venom needs to be aimed at the station management.

Trick of the Tail

Oh make no mistake, its never that the station doesn't KNOW the time, its just that they aren't professional enough to run to it.

My feeling is that there's no real need to have news start exactly at the top of the hour - UNLESS you say its exactly the top of the hour or have a time signal!

Then, it HAS to be accurate!

Back in the day, a news format I designed started several minutes before the hour, and ended EXACTLY on the hour with three pips - pips that were played automatically so the reader was forced to read to time!

It required a little training and some discipline - things that are lacking in a lot of stations these days.

A.

JackPerry

The national broadcasters should play a time beep or series of beeps on the hour every hour even if this "overides" a programme, radio ad or piece of music. This way everyone is sure of the exact time. Some European radio stations do this and it works well

Losty Dublin

JackPerry wrote: »

The national broadcasters should play a time beep or series of beeps on the hour every hour even if this "overides" a programme, radio ad or piece of music. This way everyone is sure of the exact time. Some European radio stations do this and it works well

Funnily enough when you mention it but yesterday morning when Maxi was on, the pips went off for 7AM and an ad played after them.

kilomike31

This morning on RTE 2FM after the pips that "aren't a time signal" the news reader announced it was "9 o'clock"; it was actually 9:02:15.

Have these people sooo little initiative or intelligence that they can't deviate from the script to give the actual time ?

Most other radio stations will give the actual time even if they're late with something. Nobody cares if the news is two minutes late but it would be nice if you could trust the time they give you.

I could ask is there a creeping unprofessional attitude taking hold in 2FM ? RTE used have a brilliant record, even internationally, for their approach to broadcasting.

Trick of the Tail

JackPerry wrote: »

The national broadcasters should play a time beep or series of beeps on the hour every hour even if this "overides" a programme, radio ad or piece of music. This way everyone is sure of the exact time. Some European radio stations do this and it works well

One domestic broadcaster, Zenith Classic Rock, does it too!

In fact Z is the first non-RTE station I know of that ran pips at the top of the hour. And EXACTLY at the top of the hour!

Lately though it's become THE thing to do by many stations, who incorporate it into their news jingle.

But they all miss the point. There is no point in having pips if they're not accurate.

A.

mike65

Yeah and I wish you'd stop it! There one is drifting along on the progressive zephyr of say Pink Floyd and suddenly BEEP BEEP BEEEP! breaks the spell. If one station doesn't need pips its Zenith!

Johnny901

Keep it up Zenith, I listen to Zenith in work and its a handy way of keeping track of time

Sorry to see Zenith finishing up this weekend, will they ever get a full licence ?

coylemj

Listening to FM104 yesterday afternoon in the car, they played a series of pips followed by a news bulletin. Checked the time on my GPS and it was three minutes before the hour!

I always thought this was ridiculous from the very first time I heard it. Seems like 2FM put a time signal in the jingle because they thought it "sounded cool" and is in no way an accurate signal.

johndoc

If you're short of time checks, have a listen to moaning ireland.... they use the time to finish each sentence, handover to the news, handover to ad breaks, pick up from ad breaks, interview close, etc etc etc. I think its replaced the full stop in that studio.

johndoc

johndoc wrote: »

If you're short of time checks, have a listen to moaning ireland.... they use the time to finish each sentence, handover to the news, handover to ad breaks, pick up from ad breaks, interview close, etc etc etc. I think its replaced the full stop in that studio.

They sometimes get them wrong too. When I listened to it I noticed they often gave out the time an hour ahead of what it actually was.

kilomike31

I see on the iplayer schedule it says "All times:GMT" although they are clearly Summer time. RTE mustn't know the difference. It might explain a lot

Boards.ie didn't make that mistake. Look at the bottom of the page and you'll see "All times IST".

Bard

kilomike31 wrote: »

This morning on RTE 2FM after the pips that "aren't a time signal" the news reader announced it was "9 o'clock"; it was actually 9:02:15.

Have these people sooo little initiative or intelligence that they can't deviate from the script to give the actual time ?

Most other radio stations will give the actual time even if they're late with something. Nobody cares if the news is two minutes late but it would be nice if you could trust the time they give you.

Many radio newsreaders won't waste time by putting a timecheck into the bulletin script these days and will just launch into the stories.

Personally, when I WAS reading news with a script that included a timecheck at the beginning, I'd make sure I was as correct as possible (without sounding like a pedantic git!) - so I'd say "it's just coming up to 9 O'Clock" or "it's just after/a couple of minutes after 9 O'Clock" for example.

Most (local) stations go 2-3 minutes early to news these days though in an attempt to get the jump on each other and be back to the music the earliest. From what I've heard (locals in Dublin), they tend to say "it's 9 O'Clock" rather than "it's just coming up to..." or "it's almost...".

For the same reason, the youth services like iRadio (10 to the hour) and Spin (quarter to the hour) take their news early too... so that when the other stations are starting their news, they're playing music. iRadio don't mention the time in their bulletins though, they just launch straight into the first story... pretty sure Spin don't either, it's just "hi this is [name] with the story..." and then into the first story.

I could ask is there a creeping unprofessional attitude taking hold in 2FM ? RTE used have a brilliant record, even internationally, for their approach to broadcasting.

RTE are still recognised internationally for their professional approach to broadcasting. Radio 1 was, for example, just named the world's best radio station for the 2nd year running at the New York Festival. 2FM is a different story though and could certainly do with a shake-up.

Trick of the Tail

Radio 1 a 'better' station than BBC Radio 2? 'Better' than BBC Radio 4?

I don't think so.

Standards are slipping - and although it's easy to call people who complain about incorrect time checks pedantic, all those little details do add up to denigrate the overall sound of the station.

Poor mic/studio quality; bad timekeeping; presenters who do three-quarters of an hour a day; poor editorial control... all details, but all contributing to making Radio 1 not as good as it should be.

A.

Bard

alinton wrote: »

Radio 1 a 'better' station than BBC Radio 2? 'Better' than BBC Radio 4?

I don't think so.

Ah ok, so you obviously know better than the industry experts who form the panel of judges (listed at the bottom of this page)? You'd better let them know they were wrong so...

On a serious note, though... I DO agree with you in a way - RTÉ Radio 1 wouldn't be my pick for 'best station in the world', but that said, I certainly wouldn't begrudge them the award or say that they don't deserve it. The stations you quote (BBC R2, a music station aimed at an older market and BBC R4, a talk station focused primarily on news, documentaries, comedy and the arts) aren't necessarily directly comparable with RTÉ Radio 1 content wise, but yes, they're two good examples of stations which do their jobs and fill their remit brilliantly.

Standards are slipping - and although it's easy to call people who complain about incorrect time checks pedantic, all those little details do add up to denigrate the overall sound of the station.

Well I don't know if you're referring to me there, but I wasn't calling people who do it 'pedantic'. I, for one, don't see the point in the pips being there unless they're there to give you the exact time. I used the word pedantic in reference to myself in that I wouldn't (pedantically!) say "it's 2 and a half minutes past 9" or "it's just over a minute to 9" when starting a bulletin and would instead opt for "just after 9" or "just before 9".

News bulletins really don't have to be bang-on top of the hour... but if they're not going to be, I agree that they really shouldn't use the pips.

Poor mic/studio quality; bad timekeeping; presenters who do three-quarters of an hour a day; poor editorial control... all details, but all contributing to making Radio 1 not as good as it should be.

A.

I agree on the audio quality and certainly if people show up late, that's a very bad thing... (although, on a tangent, I'm sure you'll understand that 45 minutes of on-air time a day doesn't equate to someone only doing 45 minutes of work per day...) - overall - YES, RTÉ Radio 1 certainly could and should be a lot better than it is at present... but then again, that could be said of most stations - there's always room for improvement.

gavindowd

Fm104 never manage to get the news right on the hour and you can regularly hear Ben Murray say "Fm104, ppi station of the year it's nearly (X) o clock"on the news intro. This is when it's 5 to the next hour

Going Forward

kilomike31 wrote: »

This morning at 9:01:40 they had what sounds like a 'time signal' and then the news reader comes on and says "It's 9 o'clock...". I can imagine people around the country setting their watches based on this !

They all have mobile phones now, no watches;)

I HATE the way the time is bandied around on radio:mad:
Unprofessional, lazy and sloppy.

I would expect it from dimwit DJs on dumbed-down stations,(2fm does fit the bill there!) but NOT from a national broadcaster.

I have always wondered do they not realise that they are now broadcasting globally and whether they like it or not they are Irish ambassadors, and as such should clean up the very basic points of their act.

Some great Irish radio has been archived over the years; little is worth preserving of today's drivel.

JamesReeves

I have noticed that a bit with some stations, take, for example 98fm in Dublin as someone already pointed out they tend to be 2 mins early for news but yet still say “It’s x o’clock”, unless the bulletin is in the evening when the news comes in from Network News and they have to hit it bang on the hour.
With SPIN South West / SPIN 1038 – (Same news broadcast from Dublin for both) tend to be exactly on the quarter to the hour and always say the time as – “it’s 10:45 hi I’m (name) and here’s the story)
My local station, Limerick’s Live 95 FM are usually bang on the hour for news, but sometimes they can be late/early but if this is the case they say “it’s just coming up to 11 o ‘clock” or “it’s a little after 12 o’clock” and they always finish the bulletin with the time.
Can’t say I’ve heard it on RTÉ radio as I don’t listen to it.

Bard

gavindowd wrote: »

Fm104 never manage to get the news right on the hour

And as far as they're concerned, that's fine! They don't manage to get it right on the hour, because they don't want to get it right on the hour! They (and other local stations), as I already explained in an earlier post, go 2-3 minutes early to news these days, in an attempt to get the jump on each other and be back to the music the earliest.

gavindowd wrote: »

you can regularly hear Ben Murray say "Fm104, ppi station of the year it's nearly (X) o clock"on the news intro. This is when it's 5 to the next hour

Well if he's saying "nearly", then he's not actually wrong, is he?

Onthe3rdDay

alinton wrote: »

Radio 1 a 'better' station than BBC Radio 2? 'Better' than BBC Radio 4?

I don't think so.

Standards are slipping - and although it's easy to call people who complain about incorrect time checks pedantic, all those little details do add up to denigrate the overall sound of the station.

Poor mic/studio quality; bad timekeeping; presenters who do three-quarters of an hour a day; poor editorial control... all details, but all contributing to making Radio 1 not as good as it should be.

A.

I'd take those awards with a pinch of salt. They're a publicity stunt. Look at the awards for each country. If you submit an entry fee you'll get something as long as you pass a certain standard. On top of that they're selling spares, just in case you need a extra one or two around the office!