Two outdoor cats insatiable appetites

almighty1

I have a fully grown tom and his mother. They are outdoor cats and very even rarely let into the gargage. We feed them a full tin of cat food a day (1/2 a tin each) and maybe some leftover milk if we have excess.

They are wormed every 6 months.

I cannot leave windows open anywhere because they climb in looking for food. They constantly whinge at me for food when Im in the garden. When I do feed them, they scoff it down like they havent been fed in a week.

The other day I had just fed them and the tom came down the driveway 10 minutes later with a bird in his mouth. They are constantly bringing back rabbits, birds, mice and rats.

Is that too little food to be giving them? (They are not skinny cats)
I thought that once they are fed then they wont hunt.

daltonmd

almighty1 wrote: »

I have a fully grown tom and his mother. They are outdoor cats and very even rarely let into the gargage. We feed them a full tin of cat food a day (1/2 a tin each) and maybe some leftover milk if we have excess.

They are wormed every 6 months.

I cannot leave windows open anywhere because they climb in looking for food. They constantly whinge at me for food when Im in the garden. When I do feed them, they scoff it down like they havent been fed in a week.

The other day I had just fed them and the tom came down the driveway 10 minutes later with a bird in his mouth. They are constantly bringing back rabbits, birds, mice and rats.

Is that too little food to be giving them? (They are not skinny cats)
I thought that once they are fed then they wont hunt.

Had to change the post as I read your again and seen you feed them tinned food. They are starving because tinned food is the equivelant of McDonalds, high water content, low protein and fat - rubbish and expensive.

Scientific plan or Iams which are complete foods will help.

almighty1

daltonmd wrote: »

Had the same problem myself. I do think that the hunting issue is seperate to the food one.

What are you feeding them? If it is wet food then it's the equivalent of McDonalds for cats. Dry food only.

Another thing you might look at is your feeding habits, seriously, I started writing down when my cats were being fed and the first think I discovered was that they were being fed by one of my sons, so now I leave a notebook on the catfood box and write down that they are fed.
Warned the boy not to feed them.
If cats are constantly looking for food then that is because you are constantly feeding them ;-) it's a habit.
Now I feed my cats at about 8am, 1pm and no later than 7pm. Not full bowls, but measured to their weight, if they come begging they get turfed out and after a few weeks they stopped looking so much.
My tabby is 14 years old and used to look and get food until she was sick, something I thought only dogs did and that is why I had to change my habits.

They are fed once a day, should I fed them 1/4 a of tin each twice a day?
I have to admit that the food is wet, I will look at changing this to dry food.
How much should a fully grown cat eat a day?
The hunting issue bothers me, ok forget about the mice and rats. The rabbit population is fast disappearing around here.

daltonmd

almighty1 wrote: »

They are fed once a day, should I fed them 1/4 a of tin each twice a day?
I have to admit that the food is wet, I will look at changing this to dry food.
How much should a fully grown cat eat a day?
The hunting issue bothers me, ok forget about the mice and rats. The rabbit population is fast disappearing around here.

lol, as you can see I changed the entire post.
Depending on the type of wet food you are giving them, half a can is not enough and if they are active then this food does not give them the protein that they need. So if you feed them better then it might stop them hunting out of hunger.
Cats will always hunt out of instinct - but if they are hungry then that's their incentive and to change that then you need to look at their diet.
When I fed my two tinned food I was opening 4 cans between the two of the per day - they were always starving. Since I now feed them dry food the improvement both with them and in my pocket is huge.
It will take a bit of getting used to so at first get gravy tinned food and a good quality dry food and mix them, gradually add less tinned food. They may turn their noses up for a day but when they are hungry and if it is good quality then they will eat it.

Irishchick

A filly grown cat will need at a full tin of food a day. If they are outside cats they may need more if they are very active.

Either feed them a full tin each or mix in some good dry food with the wet.

SingItOut

Cats are not like dogs so primarily feeding them dry nuts is not enough nutrition for them, They need more wet food than dry food because some cats don't drink alot of water so can easily become dehydrated if fed nothing but dry food. Like Irishchick said mix the two together. I feed my two dry food in the mornings and then the older one gets two full pouches and the kitten one split into her feeds in the evenings. We always leave water for them both.

Also don't give them milk regularly as that can lead to diarrhea and upset stomachs. As for them constantly begging you for food , thats normal. Mine still beg after they've been fed :rolleyes:

SillyMangoX

Hi OP, cats are sly little things, if they know they will get more food out of you they wont stop begging! My cats are mad for food at the moment as well, I blame the weather. Mine get fed dry food in the morning, half a pouch of wet and a small bit of dry around lunch time, same again when they are let in around 5, and just wet food when we put them to bed. In between all this they are constantly begging!
You should definitely consider mixing wet and dry, if you get a better quality dry food it might be more expensive but it will last longer as you have to feed less of it to get the correct nutrition. We feed ours whiskas pouches and hills science plan optimal care for neutered cats and on occasion a small drop of vegetable or cod liver oil to keep their coats nice and shiney!

Cows milk definitely is not good for cats as the majority of them are lactose intolerant. If you absolutely must give milk, you can get specialized cat milk which is lactose free, otherwise, the higher fat content in the milk the less lactose it contains so use full fat milk (if you really must!)

Finally, since your cats are hunters I would strongly recommend worming them every 3 months, as wildlife carry worms which your kitties can then pick up, and use a good quality wormer from the vet, not the ones you can get in pet shops or grocery shops as these really dont work too well!

We do all if the above for my cats and they still hunt, but definitely feeding more reduced the need to hunt to just hunting for fun which they rarely do anymore.

Best of luck with your little beggars

planetX

as below - worm every 3 months religiously. If they are eating what they hunt then they have tapeworm, I can tell you from my cats if you miss the 3 month deadline you start to find tapeworm eggs shedding.
No milk, it gives them the runs and they'll be even hungrier then.
1/2 can a day is nowhere near enough food for active outdoor cats. Double that, and a supply of dry food.
I hope when you say the son is a fully grown tom that you mean a neutered tom? My neighbours unneutered male just beat the crap out of one of my cats again last night - this means a probable vet bill when the bite infects. He causes massive problems for me:(

almighty1

planetX wrote: »

as below - worm every 3 months religiously. If they are eating what they hunt then they have tapeworm, I can tell you from my cats if you miss the 3 month deadline you start to find tapeworm eggs shedding.
No milk, it gives them the runs and they'll be even hungrier then.
1/2 can a day is nowhere near enough food for active outdoor cats. Double that, and a supply of dry food.
I hope when you say the son is a fully grown tom that you mean a neutered tom? My neighbours unneutered male just beat the crap out of one of my cats again last night - this means a probable vet bill when the bite infects. He causes massive problems for me:(

Thanks for all the advice above. The cats certainly dont look undernourished . I'll give them a full tin and 4 fistfuls of nuts. The son is fully grown and neutered, mother is also spayed. I should post a pic to see what ye think

Thanks again to all above.

Zapperzy

almighty1 wrote: »

I have a fully grown tom and his mother. They are outdoor cats and very even rarely let into the gargage. We feed them a full tin of cat food a day (1/2 a tin each) and maybe some leftover milk if we have excess.

They are wormed every 6 months.

I cannot leave windows open anywhere because they climb in looking for food. They constantly whinge at me for food when Im in the garden. When I do feed them, they scoff it down like they havent been fed in a week.

The other day I had just fed them and the tom came down the driveway 10 minutes later with a bird in his mouth. They are constantly bringing back rabbits, birds, mice and rats.

Is that too little food to be giving them? (They are not skinny cats)
I thought that once they are fed then they wont hunt.

Cats are underestimated, they're not always food orientated, just because they're crying doesn't mean they're hungry, us humans just tend to associate a crying cat with a hungry cat (many don't seen to think cats can seek out company just like dogs do) and then we feed it, so it becomes a learned ritual that 'I cry I get attention and food, I cry again I get attention and food, so when I cry I must eat', and it just becomes a learned thing that when they cry they get handed a plate of food.

I also presume the wet food you feed is something like whiskas, kitekat or a supermarket brand? I find with cats these brands are like sweets to a child. If I feed these to my own cat she's like a different cat, she'l nearly take the hand off you to get her head in the bowl as your dishing it out. I call them kitty crack because they clearly put something in their to make it addictive (also not to mention anything with cereals or meat & animal derivitives (min. 4% named meat) as the first ingredient is utter rubbish, like mc donalds it'l provide the nutrients to keep you alive but your not going to be very healthy). So if you were to switch to a higher quality brand you'l probably notice a change in this behaviour. Also with poorer quality foods you need to feed a higher amount as it's just bulked up with crap, with higher quality food it's more dense so a lower amount is needed so it can work out the same price or sometimes cheaper in the long run.

As said cut out the milk, cats aren't able to digest it. Change to a higher quality food, if your willing to order online then have a look here http://www.zooplus.ie/ or have a look in maxi zoo (they stock a good range of decent quality foods). My line of thought with wet foods is that I would prefer to feed wet foods, the higher water content is better for their kidneys and their whole urinary system, it's more important with indoor cats because their not out and about drinking out of puddles and eating fresh meat (birds, mice etc.) so you could change to a high quality dry food and just feed a small amount of whatever wet food your currently giving every few days.

As regards what brands to look for, keep an eye out for james wellbeloved, burns, royal canin, hill's is ok, I think maxi zoo's select gold brand is ok. Orijen is very good but quite expensive to buy initially, a bag lasts for ages though because you need to feed so little of it. Whatever you go for look at the back of the bag and it'l tell you how much to feed each day for the weight of your cat, stick to this as each food is different.

Graces7

If you feed wet tinned food, mix in a raw egg and porridge oats. Satisfies and has excellent nutrition. At low cost.

And yes, everyone is very hungry in the cold weather.

daltonmd

SingItOut wrote: »

Cats are not like dogs so primarily feeding them dry nuts is not enough nutrition for them, They need more wet food than dry food because some cats don't drink alot of water so can easily become dehydrated if fed nothing but dry food. Like Irishchick said mix the two together. I feed my two dry food in the mornings and then the older one gets two full pouches and the kitten one split into her feeds in the evenings. We always leave water for them both.

Sorry but that's not true. A dry complete food absolutely adequate for cats and dogs.

Cats drink copious amounts of water particulary if they are fed dry food. That is the reason because the nuts, which have everything a cat (or dog ) needs nutrient wise - expand in the tummy when water is drank, filling them up while sustaining them.

Wet food is rubbish and cats can be malnourished if they are ONLY fed this - it is like living on burgers, you would get fat, but be very badly nourished.

If you wanted to give cats other food other than nuts then fresh fish and chicken, in small amounts can be given as treats.

planetX

daltonmd wrote: »

Sorry but that's not true. A dry complete food absolutely adequate for cats and dogs.

Cats drink copious amounts of water particulary if they are fed dry food. That is the reason because the nuts, which have everything a cat (or dog ) needs nutrient wise - expand in the tummy when water is drank, filling them up while sustaining them.

Wet food is rubbish and cats can be malnourished if they are ONLY fed this - it is like living on burgers, you would get fat, but be very badly nourished.

If you wanted to give cats other food other than nuts then fresh fish and chicken, in small amounts can be given as treats.

but there is thought to be a link between feeding only dry food and urinary tract problems. I don't agree that wet food is rubbish, I have found my ex-strays with digestive problems do much better on wet food than on dry, and they are not in any way malnourished - the lower end dry foods are mostly cereal. If I had only one cat I would feed the top of the range dry, but when you end up feeding an army because people won't neuter you have to lower standards.

SingItOut

daltonmd wrote: »

Sorry but that's not true. A dry complete food absolutely adequate for cats and dogs.

Cats drink copious amounts of water particulary if they are fed dry food. That is the reason because the nuts, which have everything a cat (or dog ) needs nutrient wise - expand in the tummy when water is drank, filling them up while sustaining them.

Wet food is rubbish and cats can be malnourished if they are ONLY fed this - it is like living on burgers, you would get fat, but be very badly nourished.

That is why I said cats are different to dogs, dogs should be fed dry not wet. I never said dogs should be given wet. But we're talking about cats here not dogs. Their dietary needs are very different.

Dry food does not have enough nutrients on its own for cats as they require a high meat content in their diet, unless they are fed fresh meat along with a dry food they are not getting enough nutrients.

And I also said to mix half and half, not feed just wet food.

Graces7

So much here. Yes, the link between dry food and kidney/urinary problems in cats is real and I am sure the scientifically minded memebers here can find the details on that.

I was showing cats at Olympia when dry food took off in the UK ,and the trade stand was mobbed by angry cat owners.

And in my own cats, I have lost count of the incidents re this.

All commerical pet food is basically flawed and unnatural. ( Pauses to duck,but that is my opinion based onm experience.)

I came back to this thread to suggest raw chicken wings; they are around or just over E2 a kilo from eg Dunnes; Lidl, Tesco. They take longer to eat which satisfies the cat/dog more. They too often "inhale" their food and get little pleasure from the process of eating. And it will help clean their teeth. Every scrap will vanish.

This is what we do not for all our cats and dogs; a base of raw food, with some vegetables, rice etc cooked in stock. As we can get chicken necks at E5 a k from a factory and they are ideal, this works out cheaper. But the real reason is that it is a good diet with no additives or grain.

Eggs, raw or cooked are good too.

The only time we feed any tinned or dried is in an emergency eg if we have been out all day and need a quick fix for them. Maybe three or four times a year. We keep some commercial food in in winter in case of heavy snow etc.

daltonmd

SingItOut wrote: »

That is why I said cats are different to dogs, dogs should be fed dry not wet. I never said dogs should be given wet. But we're talking about cats here not dogs. Their dietary needs are very different.

Dry food does not have enough nutrients on its own for cats as they require a high meat content in their diet, unless they are fed fresh meat along with a dry food they are not getting enough nutrients.

And I also said to mix half and half, not feed just wet food.

Sorry, but I underlined the part that I disagreed with:
"They need more wet food than dry food because some cats don't drink alot of water"

That is not true - cats do not NEED more wet food. They do not drink LESS water and dry food such as this one
http://www.equipetstores.com/Product/Hills-Science-Plan-Feline-Optimal-Care-Rabbit/297141/104 for example is specifically designed to meet the nutritional needs of cats.

@Planet x, it is cheaper to feed a good dry food to your cats and the link above has food designed for a lot of problems.

@Grace, I give a little less of the dry food when I'm giving chicken and fish (about X 3 per week), thanks for the tip with the chicken wings, def try that on my two.

For me I could not afford a "high" quality wet food - simply too expensive, as for a commercial brand - not a chance, it is complete rubbish and only when you change to a very good dry food with the additions I have mentioned will you see the difference in your pets, bright eyes, shiny coat, healthier teeth and gums.

planetX

Graces7 wrote: »

I came back to this thread to suggest raw chicken wings; they are around or just over E2 a kilo from eg Dunnes; Lidl, Tesco. They take longer to eat which satisfies the cat/dog more. They too often "inhale" their food and get little pleasure from the process of eating. And it will help clean their teeth. Every scrap will vanish.

This is what we do not for all our cats and dogs; a base of raw food, with some vegetables, rice etc cooked in stock. As we can get chicken necks at E5 a k from a factory and they are ideal, this works out cheaper. But the real reason is that it is a good diet with no additives or grain.

I'm going to try the chicken wings as a treat. I don't think what you've described is a complete diet though - isn't there something cats need which is only found in organ meat, taurine maybe? I guess if they hunt they'll supply themselves, I'd still feed a little catfood just in case.

Zapperzy

daltonmd wrote: »

Sorry but that's not true. A dry complete food absolutely adequate for cats and dogs.

Cats drink copious amounts of water particulary if they are fed dry food. That is the reason because the nuts, which have everything a cat (or dog ) needs nutrient wise - expand in the tummy when water is drank, filling them up while sustaining them.

Wet food is rubbish and cats can be malnourished if they are ONLY fed this - it is like living on burgers, you would get fat, but be very badly nourished.

If you wanted to give cats other food other than nuts then fresh fish and chicken, in small amounts can be given as treats.

But not all types of wet food are rubbish, there's bozita, grau, smilla, basically any brand from here http://www.floydspfotenshop.de/ (translate using google translate) is high quality.

Cats generally do not drink large amounts of water in the same way dogs do from a bowl, they don't like drinking from a bowl so you've to think up other ways to get water into them such as by using fountains. When my cat was on wet food and had only 1 water source (a small bowl left on the floor, she's indoors so no drinking from puddles) she certainly would not drink more to make up for the dry food in her diet, she could go a whole day or two without drinking water.

daltonmd wrote: »

Sorry, but I underlined the part that I disagreed with:
"They need more wet food than dry food because some cats don't drink alot of water"

That is not true - cats do not NEED more wet food. They do not drink LESS water and dry food such as this one
http://www.equipetstores.com/Product/Hills-Science-Plan-Feline-Optimal-Care-Rabbit/297141/104 for example is specifically designed to meet the nutritional needs of cats.

@Planet x, it is cheaper to feed a good dry food to your cats and the link above has food designed for a lot of problems.

@Grace, I give a little less of the dry food when I'm giving chicken and fish (about X 3 per week), thanks for the tip with the chicken wings, def try that on my two.

For me I could not afford a "high" quality wet food - simply too expensive, as for a commercial brand - not a chance, it is complete rubbish and only when you change to a very good dry food with the additions I have mentioned will you see the difference in your pets, bright eyes, shiny coat, healthier teeth and gums.

My cat is fed mainly wet food, probably about 90% wet food at this stage, you should see her, I know because she's my cat I'm like a proud mother bragging about her but she has the softest, shiniest coat I'v ever seen and big bright eyes, picture of health. Even non-cat people comment on her! Also regardless of if she's fed wet food or dry food she has crap teeth, it's only when she was changed to wet food and I started brushing her teeth and adding in a supplement (plaque off) has her teeth improved.

Also the food you linked to has corn as a second ingredient. When have you ever seen a cat chomping down on a bowl of corn? What use has corn other than a cheap filler?

Zapperzy

planetX wrote: »

I'm going to try the chicken wings as a treat. I don't think what you've described is a complete diet though - isn't there something cats need which is only found in organ meat, taurine maybe? I guess if they hunt they'll supply themselves, I'd still feed a little catfood just in case.

Cats can't make their own taurine so it's essential they get it in their diet otherwise it causes a whole list of problems. Muscle meat, especially heart meat is highest in it. They'd get it if they hunt but I'd still be feeding either a small amount of cat food or something high in taurine such as heart just in case.

SingItOut

daltonmd wrote: »

That is not true - cats do not NEED more wet food. They do not drink LESS water and dry food such as this one
http://www.equipetstores.com/Product/Hills-Science-Plan-Feline-Optimal-Care-Rabbit/297141/104 for example is specifically designed to meet the nutritional needs of cats.

Sorry, but cats have specific diets that require high meat content and moisture. That is what they need. Once again I will repeat myself and say to mix half dry and half wet.

That food which you have linked has grains in it, grains are not part of a cats natural diet nor do they need it as another poster above has also stated. Dry food may be convenient for the owner but it is not always the best nutritionely for the cat if fed on its own. I would link all my college notes on cat nutrition but we'd be here for days

looksee

I have two young (2 year old) cats, neutered and indoor/outdoor. My previous cats lived to 12 and 20 years on wet food.

These two have been offered wet food (tinned, pouches, all varieties) but are just not bothered. They lick off the surface and leave the pellets of whatever they are. They will eat small bits of cooked chicken if offered but otherwise are not bothered about meat at all. They live on dry food (Whiskers) and drink water from a bowl in the kitchen or puddles outside. They get food on demand.

They are both the correct weight. The vet says their teeth and condition are excellent. One hunts, the other can't be bothered, but the hunter doesn't eat much of what she catches.

So, my experience is that you can go either way and so long as the cats are healthy it doesn't really matter.

The Sweeper

daltonmd wrote: »

Wet food is rubbish and cats can be malnourished if they are ONLY fed this - it is like living on burgers, you would get fat, but be very badly nourished.

daltonmd, that's total fiction.

All complete pet food needs to fall within the AAFCO standard for basic nutrition. If the food falls within the standard, it's nutritionally complete. Whiskas wet tinned food is indeed a complete food and plenty of cats the world over live long and happy lives eating Whiskas wet tinned food.

Their litter trays are a mess, their poo stinks and their teeth will need a full veterinary clean under anaesthetic annually from the age of five years onwards, but it's simply untrue to say cats can be malnourished on wet food.

There is huge evidence that cats fed a dry-only diet with a food high in grain will suffer from FLUTD - feline lower urinary tract disease. There is a combination of issues - cooked petfood products disturb the bladder PH in the cat, giving rise to struvite and oxalate crystals. The crystals can cause a blockage in the urethra and the cat can die. The veterinary solution is to move the cat onto specific PH-controlling dry food which costs a fortune.

The instance of FLUTD in cats is growing at an alarming rate, and this appears to tie in with the increasing practice of preventing cats from roaming. Cats are hunters, and a cat permitted to roam will hunt - mice, birds, insects, lizards. In this way, they supplement their diet with the food they would live on exclusively if they were wild. If you stop your cat from roaming, you stop it from hunting and it lives exclusively on the commercial petfood you feed it.

The problem is that nobody has yet conducted a fully controlled double-blind type study on this (there's no incentive - petfood companies certainly aren't going to pay for it), but if you're in a situation where you see a large number of cats passing through (rescue, a veterinary surgery) you'll very quickly have the evidence in front of you that shows commercial petfood diets are casuing a massive problem.

I've just moved house with all of my cats, meaning vet checks and vaccinations for every one of them before relocating. They all have similar problems with their teeth - they're starting a grade one minor tartar build up. The vet recommended I feed raw chicken necks to the cats to get their teeth clean, or feed a specific teeth-cleaning product with enzymes called 'Feline Greenies'. I explained that I've tried raw chicken necks but only one of my cats will touch them.

And my vet - my VET, who is highly regarded where he is in small animal practice, to the point of being interviewed by the media for his opinion - my vet said 'They'll be fine up to three days without food if you offer them nothing but chicken necks. Just make sure they have water, and don't give in.'

I still feed my cats dry food, but I don't free feed them. They get a cupful of dry food in the morning between six of them, plus raw meat, and the same in the evening. The raw meat is mixed with offal and it's in chunks to make them chew, but we're going to have to do something about the teeth so when I have the energy, there'll be three days of yowling and chicken necks on offer.

Plus the thing that's vital to cats is taurine, an amino acid found in muscle meat (so heart, because that's a muscle, and then cheap stewing beef is a good one). Without taurine cats will sicken and die. If you look on the ingredients list of your pet's dry food you'll see it's added in because the cooking process destroys it.

Graces7

The Sweeper wrote: »

daltonmd, that's total fiction.

All complete pet food needs to fall within the AAFCO standard for basic nutrition. If the food falls within the standard, it's nutritionally complete. Whiskas wet tinned food is indeed a complete food and plenty of cats the world over live long and happy lives eating Whiskas wet tinned food.

Their litter trays are a mess, their poo stinks and their teeth will need a full veterinary clean under anaesthetic annually from the age of five years onwards, but it's simply untrue to say cats can be malnourished on wet food.

There is huge evidence that cats fed a dry-only diet with a food high in grain will suffer from FLUTD - feline lower urinary tract disease. There is a combination of issues - cooked petfood products disturb the bladder PH in the cat, giving rise to struvite and oxalate crystals. The crystals can cause a blockage in the urethra and the cat can die. The veterinary solution is to move the cat onto specific PH-controlling dry food which costs a fortune.

The instance of FLUTD in cats is growing at an alarming rate, and this appears to tie in with the increasing practice of preventing cats from roaming. Cats are hunters, and a cat permitted to roam will hunt - mice, birds, insects, lizards. In this way, they supplement their diet with the food they would live on exclusively if they were wild. If you stop your cat from roaming, you stop it from hunting and it lives exclusively on the commercial petfood you feed it.

The problem is that nobody has yet conducted a fully controlled double-blind type study on this (there's no incentive - petfood companies certainly aren't going to pay for it), but if you're in a situation where you see a large number of cats passing through (rescue, a veterinary surgery) you'll very quickly have the evidence in front of you that shows commercial petfood diets are casuing a massive problem.

I've just moved house with all of my cats, meaning vet checks and vaccinations for every one of them before relocating. They all have similar problems with their teeth - they're starting a grade one minor tartar build up. The vet recommended I feed raw chicken necks to the cats to get their teeth clean, or feed a specific teeth-cleaning product with enzymes called 'Feline Greenies'. I explained that I've tried raw chicken necks but only one of my cats will touch them.

And my vet - my VET, who is highly regarded where he is in small animal practice, to the point of being interviewed by the media for his opinion - my vet said 'They'll be fine up to three days without food if you offer them nothing but chicken necks. Just make sure they have water, and don't give in.'

I still feed my cats dry food, but I don't free feed them. They get a cupful of dry food in the morning between six of them, plus raw meat, and the same in the evening. The raw meat is mixed with offal and it's in chunks to make them chew, but we're going to have to do something about the teeth so when I have the energy, there'll be three days of yowling and chicken necks on offer.

Plus the thing that's vital to cats is taurine, an amino acid found in muscle meat (so heart, because that's a muscle, and then cheap stewing beef is a good one). Without taurine cats will sicken and die. If you look on the ingredients list of your pet's dry food you'll see it's added in because the cooking process destroys it.

Thank you. NB we are in Ireland and regulations differ.

Interesting re the urinary diet food. One of our cats is prone to cystitis. We bought a bag of the dry urinary diet from the vet; yep, cost a bomb... The cystitis came back. Tried that twice, then realised that is is grain based.( May be different over there?) Tinned food of any variety has her to the litter tray immediately. So now it is raw all the way and she is fine. Mostly chicken necks. I would guess low thus in taurine, but she certainly is not sickening and dying. Far from it.

Graces7

looksee wrote: »

I have two young (2 year old) cats, neutered and indoor/outdoor. My previous cats lived to 12 and 20 years on wet food.

These two have been offered wet food (tinned, pouches, all varieties) but are just not bothered. They lick off the surface and leave the pellets of whatever they are. They will eat small bits of cooked chicken if offered but otherwise are not bothered about meat at all. They live on dry food (Whiskers) and drink water from a bowl in the kitchen or puddles outside. They get food on demand.

They are both the correct weight. The vet says their teeth and condition are excellent. One hunts, the other can't be bothered, but the hunter doesn't eat much of what she catches.

So, my experience is that you can go either way and so long as the cats are healthy it doesn't really matter.

My feelings too. It is the same with us of course. An old couple I knew; he ate as many eggs as their hens laid, and his cholesterol was low, while her's was high and she was ultra careful with her diet.

The trouble I have with scientific findings largely is that one study comes out and then the next contradicts it. According to the taurine ideas, my cats should be sick or dead and you never saw a healthier pair. In times past, I fed butcher's minced scraps, full of offal, with oats and eggs, and they were not as healthy as these are.

So for cost as well as all other considerations. chicken necks it is here.

And of course. food needs to give pleasure in the eating. I often share my plate with the cats, hand feeding. Such delicate nibbles, unlike the grabs of the dogs!

Graces7

googled this and foundhttp://www.whathealth.com/taurine/

Not sure what the words re cats and food mean? If they add taurine to cat food, is it the synthetic stuff that this article says they cannot utilise?

All the articles I read say simply raw meat also.. and of course eggs.

With our two, we have no idea who they are eating outdoors also!

The Sweeper

Graces7 wrote: »

Thank you. NB we are in Ireland and regulations differ.

The EU Feeding Stuffs standard has the same balances as the AAFCO as far as I know.

There are four companies on the planet who make what's estimated to be over 80% of the commercial petfood in the world. Proctor & Gamble, Mars, Nestle and Colgate-Palmolive. Those four guys have big US set ups, so they adhere to AAFCO standards for the petfood they sell everywhere. AAFCO is not a regulatory board, just a sort of standards and guidelines authority and other countries have taken their leads from that standard.

The Sweeper

Graces7 wrote: »

googled this and foundhttp://www.whathealth.com/taurine/
If they add taurine to cat food, is it the synthetic stuff that this article says they cannot utilise?

No. When the article says cats cannot synthesize taurine, it means they can't make it within their own bodies. Subsequently they have to get it through what they eat. Taurine is vital to a cat's nervous system and eyesight and a lack of it will result in blindness and organ failure. The petfood companies boil it out of their petfoods in the processing plants and so add it back in powdered form.

You can buy taurine powder in health food shops in its pure form (it looks a little like salt crystals). Adding a pinch of it to daily meals if you're feeding all raw to a cat that doesn't hunt for its own food appears to be highly beneficial.

PS a chicken neck would contain some taurine, and your cats are outdoors and hunting all day so are probably supplementing their diets with everything from insects to rodents. We place too much emphasis on having every single meal balanced with our animals - three mice a week may be enough to keep your cats in all the balanced nutrition they need, and everything else is quite literally gravy...

Kash

looksee wrote: »

So, my experience is that you can go either way and so long as the cats are healthy it doesn't really matter.

Graces7 wrote: »

The trouble I have with scientific findings largely is that one study comes out and then the next contradicts it.

Some very sesnsible statements

My cat has eaten dried food since he was old enough to crunch it. It is not even the best quality food - he occasionally has IAMs, but honestly seems to get on better with Go-Cat. It suits him down to the ground: he is 8 years old, and the picture of health and vitality, bright eyes, soft and glossy coat, energetic and playful. He has needed the vet once in 8 years, after getting an infection under a claw, but apart from that one instance he is perfect - at his yearly check up, the vet has repeatedly said that he is one of the healthiest cats he has ever seen.

He supplements his own food by being an impressive killing machine, and regularly drinks fresh water (but only from the dogs bowl). He usually gets a few treats from my plate if i'm eating meat and he happens to be in the room.

I can understand people who only want the best for their pets, and who research to find out what that is, but for me, the proof of the pudding is in my pets vitality and behavior - and if that means ignoring the latest 'experts' then I have no qualms about doing so.

The Sweeper

Kash wrote: »

Some very sesnsible statements

My cat has eaten dried food since he was old enough to crunch it. It is not even the best quality food - he occasionally has IAMs, but honestly seems to get on better with Go-Cat. It suits him down to the ground: he is 8 years old, and the picture of health and vitality, bright eyes, soft and glossy coat, energetic and playful. He has needed the vet once in 8 years, after getting an infection under a claw, but apart from that one instance he is perfect - at his yearly check up, the vet has repeatedly said that he is one of the healthiest cats he has ever seen.

He supplements his own food by being an impressive killing machine, and regularly drinks fresh water (but only from the dogs bowl). He usually gets a few treats from my plate if i'm eating meat and he happens to be in the room.

I can understand people who only want the best for their pets, and who research to find out what that is, but for me, the proof of the pudding is in my pets vitality and behavior - and if that means ignoring the latest 'experts' then I have no qualms about doing so.

But Kalms, you've just completely undermined your own position by saying that your cat takes care of his own nutrition by hunting, so a dry diet of Go-Cat probably has little to do with his physical condition, other than giving him a guaranteed daily supply of energy that allows him to hunt for the food that's really keeping him in tip top nick.

Kash

The Sweeper wrote: »

But Kalms, you've just completely undermined your own position by saying that your cat takes care of his own nutrition by hunting, so a dry diet of Go-Cat probably has little to do with his physical condition, other than giving him a guaranteed daily supply of energy that allows him to hunt for the food that's really keeping him in tip top nick.

I see what you are saying, but I don't see that as undermining my position.
I don't feel a need to follow that latest trend in cat food advice as the cat is doing extremely well on his own personal diet, which currently happens to be Go Cat and low flying birdies.


When I lived in the city, the cat was aged 1-4, and he did not hunt at all (unless ping-pong balls count) as he was kept inside. He lived almost entirely on dry food (i was a broke student). I had read at the time that raw food would be very good for him, and had sweet-talked a local butcher into giving me a load of leftover meat and poultry, which I painstakingly chopped up into pieces - which Loki promptly turned his nose up at, despite me following the "you're not getting anything else until you eat that" rule.

But despite my best efforst to educcate his palate, he thrived on the dry food at the time - the vet always commeneted on how healthy he was.

We now live in the country, and I am lucky in the fact that he likes to hunt, and seems to be very good at it. He doesn't hunt every day, but i would make an eductaed guess that he catches three times as much as he brings home, and eats less than half of that - so maybe 4-5 small animals a week?

But I am not promoting the dry food diet - nor a dry food and happy hunter diet - what I am promoting is feeding your cat whatever keeps him at his healthiest, and paying attention to whatever that may be. I follow the same rule for my dogs - and will for my future kids too

fatmammycat

My three cats eat a mix of whiskas and dry go-cat, also sliced ham, water and milk (one of them also like doughnuts and popcorn) and in the morning they get two sachets of that rank crap from tesco which for some reason they love, split between them. And they are 21, 18 and 9 years old, appear to be in great health with good coats- they are in and outdoor cats, sleep in a shed at night and are allowed in during the day if they want, which at the moment they do.
OP, I'd spit the can between them, but make sure they have access to dry food they can help themselves to during the day, and access to plenty of water.

Graces7

Kash wrote: »

I see what you are saying, but I don't see that as undermining my position.
I don't feel a need to follow that latest trend in cat food advice as the cat is doing extremely well on his own personal diet, which currently happens to be Go Cat and low flying birdies.


When I lived in the city, the cat was aged 1-4, and he did not hunt at all (unless ping-pong balls count) as he was kept inside. He lived almost entirely on dry food (i was a broke student). I had read at the time that raw food would be very good for him, and had sweet-talked a local butcher into giving me a load of leftover meat and poultry, which I painstakingly chopped up into pieces - which Loki promptly turned his nose up at, despite me following the "you're not getting anything else until you eat that" rule.

But despite my best efforst to educcate his palate, he thrived on the dry food at the time - the vet always commeneted on how healthy he was.

We now live in the country, and I am lucky in the fact that he likes to hunt, and seems to be very good at it. He doesn't hunt every day, but i would make an eductaed guess that he catches three times as much as he brings home, and eats less than half of that - so maybe 4-5 small animals a week?

But I am not promoting the dry food diet - nor a dry food and happy hunter diet - what I am promoting is feeding your cat whatever keeps him at his healthiest, and paying attention to whatever that may be. I follow the same rule for my dogs - and will for my future kids too

Agree wholeheartedly.
And I have changed their diet many times.

I no longer have any idea what the cats catch as they have learned NOT to bring it in.. oh but I just moved a cupboard and lo! A bird's wing. Their most spectular catch was a a magpie; feathers all over the drive.

Limited now by the wee girl's issue with grain in any form and with tinned foods in any form. But we get the chicken necks so cheaply that that is fine and she is more than worth it all.