Concerned for my sister's future

LegacyUser

My sister recently got engaged and is due to marry next year. However, myself and my family are concerned about her future husband and are worried about her long term happiness. Before I get into the reasons why I'll tell you the back story.

My sister is now 33 but ever since she's been a teenager she's had a bad time with boyfriends. I'm four years younger than her and wouldn't have been privy to the details but all I know is that she went through a lot of break-ups and a lot of guys cheated on her down the years. A common problem seems to have been that she always went for the charming types, the guys who would sweep her off of her feet and then proceed to be unreliable and/or dishonest. One particular story that sticks in the memory was of a guy who she fell for and who on a later date showed up driving a car with a baby seat in it. He made up some story about why it was there but it subsequently turned out that he was married with children and was having an affair (without my sister realising this). Another guy who she was mad about was meant to bring her on a holiday and on the day they were meant to leave, he simply never showed up. He didn't answer his phone or respond to any communication until 3 months later when he texted her out of the blue.

The other kind of relationships that she was in were where she was seeing guys who were "nice guys". They treated her well, looked after her, didn't cheat etc. The thing is though that she was never into these guys as much as the bad boys. Usually these relationships only lasted a few months before she broke them off.

Whenever she went through either type of breakup she'd me a mess. My parents used dread it because she'd come out to visit and she'd be sitting in a chair all curled up in her dressing gown. She'd snap at everyone and be surly and generally miserable. This mood would only be alleviated when she embarked into a new relationship. Then she wouldn't come out to the house at all or very rarely. This annoyed my mother especially as she felt like my sister was only coming home when she was in a bad mood and didn't bother when she was happy.

I'll be introducing my second sister later in the story so for the sake of simplicity let's call the sister who is the focus of this story, Maire. So anyway in early 2009 Maire met a new guy through on-line dating. Let's call him Brian. So they had a few dates and then Brian returned to work in the middle east where he was doing contract work earning a large salary. During the time he was away they kept in constant contact. I myself was abroad as well at this time and the first I heard of Brian was when she mentioned him in an e-mail. Now she had never mentioned a boyfriend before to me so I took this as a positive sign.

During this time of communication Brian told Maire about his plans for the future. He was from a rural area and he was working abroad using his trade so that he could build a house on a plot of land that his parents had given him. He told her that he loved to travel and that he was interested in music and arts. These would all be great loves of my sister so she was very interested in all of this. He also told her that although he had not finished school, he had always regretted this fact and wanted to go back to college at night as a mature student when he finally got home again. He told her he was a member of MENSA and that he was very popular in his locality and how he loved his grandmother and a lot of other things. The reason I'm going into detail here is because I think a lot of these facts coloured a picture of Brian in Maire's head that she still clings to today.

Before I move on I should say that my sister would be a great catch. I realise I say this as her brother but I'm also quite cynical and I see so much positives in her. She's pretty and she's educated to a post-graduate level. She is very positive and bubbly and loves making friends. She'd be the sort of person who'd make a present by hand for a friend, not because she wanted to cheap out, but because she would want that person to know that she put a piece of herself into it. She has a well paid job in the care industry and through prudent saving and a lot of hard work owns her own home in which she has at least 60% equity. The best thing about her though has always been this brightness that she has inside that comes out through her smile. It's an intangible quality that is pure in nature and draws people in.

Two things about her though. She's always suffered from lack of self confidence. She's always set her sights low as she'd be afraid to risk failure. She's also in a way been a bit manic-depressive. Probably not in a clinical bi-polar sense but more that her moods are generally not neutral. She's usually either up or down. Often she'd be up when she's out socialising with friends and down when on her own or at the family home.

(this is getting way too long so I'm just going to post this first part whilst I start writing the next piece)

LegacyUser

So Maire and Brian are keeping contact and every few months Brian comes home for a few weeks. I think it may have been the first time he came home or the second that the first problems started. Now, all of the information that I've given so far is information that I was told from my other sister, let's call her Jennifer and my mother. Jennifer is 4 years older than Maire and they've always had a close relationship. They've gone on holidays with each other regularly and would ring each other a lot for chats. So it was around this time that Maire started having second thoughts about Brian. I'm not too sure of the details but I do know that on one of the occasions they had an argument that left him in the taxi on the airport ringing her in floods of tears pleading with her not to end it. On another occassion he told her that he didn't want to waste his time with her if she wasn't serious about him but that for him she was the only girl that he would ever want.

So long story short, they stayed together and he eventually quit his job to come home. He subsequently got another job in Europe but quit that after a week because he didn't want to be away from my sister/didn't like the work. After this he managed to find work in the city that we are from and he moved in to my sister's house. At the same time he was continuing to build his own house, which is about 30 miles away, in a rural village. This would be about the time that my family were first exposed to Brian.

Initially my parent's really liked him, especially my father. My mother liked the fact that he was interested in nature and wildlife and my father admired the fact that he was a qualified tradesman who was able to fix things around the house. I think one of the first things that he did was to fix an electrical socket that had been temperamental for years and this gave him massive brownie points in my father's book. He told a lot of great stories about the village he was from and the farming that he had done growing up. My parents both come from a rural background so they were immediately impressed by all of this. He promised my mother to bring her some fish that he was going to catch and my father some wood that he was going to cut.

At this time Maire seemed really happy. She said of her friend's reaction that “Everybody loves Brian” and she spent a lot of time gushing about him to Jennifer. I'm not sure exactly when the first cracks started to appear or how the stories started to slowly trickle through that Brian wasn't all that he seemed. I suppose like a lot of things it started with small things. Maire used to socialise a lot with her friends. This fell away rapidly but that's normal when somebody gets into a relationship. The thing is though that she was being put under pressure. She has a male friend who she's known for years who she used to go to a lot of gigs with. Brian didn't like that. It also turned out that he didn't really like music so much after all. So she stopped going to gigs as regularly.

Another early incident was that she went to a wedding as the date of her male gay friend. Brian hit the roof. Turns out he wasn't too hot on gays either and he didn't like the idea of her spending time like that with another man (even if they other guy was gay). Another incident involved them coming out of town late at night and needing to catch a cab. Brian refused to get in a cab driven by an African driver and walk down the rank until he found an irish driver.

Maire stopped talking about Brian as much. She certainly didn't boast about him anymore. MENSA had given a ring of membership apparently, but he had lost it. As soon as he returned he never mentioned returning to education again. He openly admitted hating the city and city life and spent as much time as he could at home. It turns out though that there he had fallen out with a lot of people in his village. He refused to shop in particualar shops due to past slights. It turned out that he didn't really get on with his grandmother after all. He spent most of his time with his cousin out fishing and shooting. He didn't like to accompany my sister on nights out so she went out alone, but he didn't like that either so she started going out less and less.

Jennifer was hearing about this information and she was concerned so she passed it onto my mother. My mother didn't tell my father but she did tell me. It wasn't a pretty picture that was being painted. However, the most important thing was that Maire seemed to be happy. She had become a littlb bit more shut off but at least she wasn't down in the dumps anymore.

Then came the christening. Jennifer had had a baby boy. She lives in another city and so we were all due to go up for the ceremony. A few days beforehand Maire informed Jennifer and my parents that Brian wouldn't be coming due to work commitments. My mother was suspicious since it was a Sunday but she held her tongue. I drove with Maire to the ceremony and she admitted to me that Brian had wanted to go hunting with his cousin instead so he had asked my sister to lie for him. Now this really annoyed me because Maire is a really honest person so I knew she's hate to lie like that. Later that day my mother asked her what kind of work was Brian doing that day and she broke down and admitted the truth. That day was the turning point for my mother and Jennifer.

Last Christmas Maire convinced Brian to go to Central Europ for a Christmas market. She's not a very organised person and she wrote in the name of an ex-housemate who happend to also be named Brian on the application. When her boyriend realised this he hit the roof and stormed off. It was the night before the flight so she managed to placate him. When over there, he had zero interest in seeing any of the markets and just wanted to look at gun and hunting shops. In the end they split up. He spent most of the trip watching television in the hotel and on his return he proudly announced that he'd “happily burn his passport tomorrow if he could”.

At this stage my father was still unaware of all of these stories but he was starting to realise himself that Brian wasn't all he'd imagined him to be. As a show of goodwill my father had begun to spend his weekend afternoon's painting Brian's house. In reality he was doing it for himself as much as anyone as he really enjoys manual labour and is never happier than when working with his hands. So for the past few months he had been driving up and down to the house and spending hours painting all the inside walls. During this time he started to realise that Brian talked a lot but never followed up with actions. H constantly made promises of things that he was going to get done around the house and actions that he was going to take but he never followed up on anything. My father is very much a man of his word and this bothered him a great deal. He started sharing these sentiments with my mother who passed them on to me.

So while all of this was going on Maire was still, it would seem determined to make this relationship work. Nobody was really talking about it but the elephant in the room was that she felt that she was running out of time and she really wanted children. On one occasion my mother asked her if she loved Brian and she answered “I don't know-what is love?”. She then said that she knew that Brian was not the person that she imagined ending up with but she knew that he would (and I quote) “never beat her” or never cheat on her.

At this point I should say that Brain to the best of my knowledge does treat my sister well in a direct sense. He is kind to her and does a lot of tasks for her.

Ok at this stage I hope that my own reservations are clear. If not here are some more incidents

-> He told Maire that if they had a gay child that he's love him and then ask him to emigrate
-> He told her that if they only had girls then he wouldn't pass them on his small farm but would instead leave it to his nephew (maybe this is normal rural thinking-I don't know)

The house is now almost finished. They are living together there for the past 5 months. Maire spends most nights there. She never stays in her house in the city anymore. She hasn't rented it out as it needs some electrical work done to it. Brian says he will do it but it's been going on 2 months now.

They got engaged last month. He didn't want to pay more than E1,000 for the ring. My sister is not materialistic. What annoyed her is that he spent E10,000 on a 2nd hand JCB that he only needed to dig a single trench but he wanted to cheap out an engagement ring. In the end I think she bought her own ring. My parent's are contributing to the wedding but it annoys them becasue they know that he expects her to pay for it since she's the bride. He squanders his money. She saves hers. He's inviting over 100 relationships even though he readily admits he's not on speaking terms with a considerable amount of them.

Last winter my sister happend to mention that they had run out of wood for the solid fuel stove in their kitchen. My father gave her a bag of wood. Brian refused to accept it because “a real man supplies his own fuel”.

As an aside he's a died in the wool Fiann Fail supporter because “His family has always been that way”.

I actually could go on. There is literally so much ammunition.

Brian is about 4 stone overweight and bald. The thing is that my sister has always gone out with fat bald guys so we didn't think much of it. However, I think Brian has some sort of issues over it and secretly fears that Maire is going to leave him for some better looking guy. He also has a massive chip on his shoulder about his education. The only boyfriend's of my sister's friends that he likes are the ones who are truck drivers or plumbers or whatver. If anyone works in an office or has a degree he immediately dislikes them.

The reason I wrote this post is because my sister is depressed. She told my mother that she's not looking forward to the wedding. She's not excited or happy. She can't remember the last time that she laughed. They had an open and honest discussion. My mother said that her options are to continue or to move back to the city and start again. She said that there's not way she can go back to that again.

My fear is that my sister is going down a path that leads to future unhappiness. SO far everything is reversible but as soon as she is married and has children everything gets more complicated. None of us has ever discussed how we feel about Brian with her. She knows though, I'm sure of it. She never talks about him anymore. If any of us ask, she sounds nervous and does unconcious things like pick at her fingers and speak in a different tone of voice. And that light that I mentioned. It's been extinguished.

This is all to do with her wanting a family life. She wants a husband and children but I think she might be entering a loveless marriage with an unsuitable match.

Should we say something (and by we, I mean my mother or sister-she doesn't want to get realationship advice from her kid brother) or forever hold our peace?

Big Bag of Chips

Your post is far too long to comment on really. It's filled with lots of irrelevant detail, and if that is the way you and your family generally go on and discuss things, I can understand why your sister is withdrawing from you!

Ultimately - it's her choice. You don't have to like him for her to love him. Not talking about the wedding and not being excited about it, could be down to her knowing what you are all saying behind her back. If I was preparing a wedding, and I knew even a fraction of what you have posted here I wouldn't be too wuick to be discussing the finer details with you all!

Leave her be. Keep your noses out. He doesn't have to be perfect, to be perfect for her.

My husband has his faults. My family aren't mad about him - but it doesn't matter! I love him.

woodchuck

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

Your post is far too long to comment on really. It's filled with lots of irrelevant detail

Agreed. Is there any way you can summarise the key issues here OP?

What I’m getting (from skimming your posts…) is that your sister is engaged, but you and your family don’t think she’s happy about it. At the end of the day it’s her decision whether or not she marries him. If she seems unhappy just ask her if everything’s ok and give her the opportunity to talk if she needs to. If she has people to confide in it could help her come to her own decision, but try not to influence her if possible. It comes off that you don’t like him much, but just because you (or your family) aren’t fond of him doesn’t mean he isn’t right for her.

All you and your family can really do is be there for her if she wants to talk and support her in whatever decision she makes.

lumjm

(hand up) i read it all!
So I can see how much you care about your sister and this situation is very stressful because you really cant do much about her choices. But I do think that in the case where everyone is obviously going to the wedding and your parents are contributing then some kind of communication between the family and your sister and her future husband is necessary. It just needs to be more open. Your sister senses your and everyone else's discontent, why wouldn't she be practically dreading the day. I think it might be a good idea for your mother or sister to talk to her again. She doesn't know you know all of this and would probably be horrified you've all been cursing him behind her back. Maybe your mother might ask her again why she said those things about not looking forward to it etc, because she just wants her to be happy and the best thing may be to even postpone if she's viewing it so negatively, make out its no big deal, she will worry what everyone will think. But basically its not about you or your other sister or your mother its about how she feels, and one of you should get to the bottom of why shes been unhappy, either its all about him (in which case I would actually say to her dont marry him!), or its because she's aware you all don't like him and aren't supportive (which while not the ideal scenario ultimately its her marrying him not all of you) and you hould indeed hold your peace.

LegacyUser

Hi OP, I read it all too. You are a lovely brother. I can fully understand your concerns. Unfortunately I think your poor sister has fallen into a trap some women fall into when they are afraid of being left childless. They settle for any old thing.

This fella sounds AWFUL, racist, homophobic, insular, a procrastinator, all talk no action, moany, miserly and miserable. Your poor sister.

The really unfortunate thing is she is probably in a self enforced denial. Probably thinking well all men are sh!t anyway (due to her past experiences) so what's the point of starting all over again. And if she is a little depressed as you think, then the last thing she wants to face is breaking up and starting all over again.

It's unfortunate that she took everything he said at face value. It's always better to get to know someone properly rather than fall in love with an illusion. But unfortunately it's a bit late for that.

The problem you have now is what to do? Well, I've been in your sisters shoes, stuck with an awful partner, body clock ticking. Thought it was too late to leave and find someone better. Well I dragged my heels for years but eventually had to leave it was so awful and I gave up on ever having kids. Well, I met a wonderful guy and am now expecting our first baby and I'm no spring chicken.

I would advise you to just be there for your sister. Don't let her isolate herself because of shame and a sense of failure. Also, he being the character he is may try to reduce her confidence even more in order to make her stay with him. That's how some people like him work.

I know it's so frustrating looking at her wasting her life on him but just keep the lines of communication open. Let her vent and gently encourage her to think about what's best for her. Let her talk and let her see there can be a better life for her. She doesn't have to settle for this. Life can be so much better.

I would also talk to your Dad and stop him from investing so much time on this man. Your sister may well leave him and it's not right that a decent man like your Dad is being used as free labour.

I hope things work out OP. It is very difficult watching a family member in a miserable relationship. Just keep those lines of communication open. It will be a lifeline to your sister.

Starokan

Fair dues on looking out for your sister, couple things jump out.

you say he is kind to her, that's got to be a plus , some of the things you mention like not attending the christening are not great from an in laws point of view but they are not the end of the world either. Similarly his political views would not cause me much concern. Not spending thousands on a ring is merely practical and if they both were ok with that then again no problem.

Obviously it seems from your post that he is controlling with a jealous streak , these are not good traits in anyone, he also seems to be somewhat racist and homophobic, these are definitely horrible characteristics in someone. However i have observed many irish males who tend to make derogatory remarks about gays/foreigners etc but when confronted with a situation where they are in contact with someone who is gay or racially different they act perfectly normal. Its an unusual trait in people which i have seen time and time again.

Your sister seems like a lovely person, if you are really concerned then talk to her, not to condemn her boyfriend but to establish how she feels. It may be that she is happy out spending her time with him, her caring nature may break down his backward attitudes. She may not feel that she is settling for someone, this may be the person she really wishes to spend her life with. You can express your concerns to her and you may find that she allays your fears

Janet1986

I think your sister will be in for a life of misery if she marries this man.

As soon as they're married he will develop an attitude of 'you're my wife now i own you'

Won't be too long before he stops her from seeing you, her family, if he knows you're not too keen on him.

LegacyUser

I read all of your post, and I was most bothered by the level of over-involvement your family are having in your sister's relationship.

This is her relationship, her choice. You all need to back off and let her make her own mistakes.

You all need to get some hobbies or other distractions in your lives as you seem to be spending far too much time discussing every minute detail of what is taking place in your sister and her husband's lives.

I thought from the way you were describing this situation that this man was going to be married to someone else or possibly hiding a past life as a rapist. There really is very little dirt here. He said he was going to return to education, he didn't. He may not be as close to his grandmother as he originally insinuated. Hardly the crime of the century. Hardly the first time someone talked things up a little in the early stages of a relationship. [Lesson be learned about sharing every detail of your relationship with family!!] Are you this judgemental about everyone in your life?

1000 euro is a more than decent amount of money to spend on a ring. I guess you are from a city background and don't understand the country mentality much. I am from the country and from how you describe this man, he sounds like a fairly typical, old-fashioned, country man. He will see the 10,000 spent on a JCB as an investment, he may dig other holes down the road, he can always sell it on - something he can't do with a ring. A man like that will never put much value on a piece of jewellery worn on the finger. I really wouldn't be comparing a ring to a JCB.

The racism, etc.. it's hardly unusual in Ireland. This is hardly the first man you've ever encountered with such an outlook.. It's not morally right, but that's the way he is and I doubt you're going to change that.

Your sister has chosen to be with this man. Your family need to butt out and find something or someone else to talk about before you push your sister away altogether.

qwertytlk

Say something. Whats the point in holding your tounge? In case you upset her or she doesnt call round as much? Well shes not oidoing that latley anyway, as u say shes become very withdrawn since entering this relationship. If she marries him and its a disaster, as im sure it will be, you will never forgive yourself for not getting your feelings out in the open.
She said herself shes not even looking forward to the wedding, well thats certainly not normal imo. Im engaged and hope to get married next year and every time i think of it i get butterflies! Could it be that shes not looking forward to the wedding and is 'not sure whayt love is' ,because deep down she knows what he is really like, even more so than what the family know as im sure she only tells you the not so nad stuff. And if they do marry he is likely to chamge even more so. In an 'your my wife, you do what i say' type of way. As for having kids with thos man? Well jesus no, i thought it would be obviois to a blind/deaf person that he is clearly not a suitable role model for a child.
Doesnt like gays/blacks/...well thats a homophobic statment if i ever heard one. As for the taxi incident, well that clearly shows he is a racist. From the other things you mention about him its also clear he is a dreamer(i want to go here/there and do x y z, yet it never happens) hes also a blatent liar as he led her to believe he was interested in all the things he was, but it turns out that he has less than interest in them...more like dowright dislike ar haterd.
Then theres the fact that he has fallen out with half his village(and these must of been pretty bad fall outs as he is avoididng their premises-probably because he is barred but didnt want to say that to ur sis) and hhes aso fallen out qwith his family.
So as a prospective father....NOOOOoooooo way!
Just speak to your sister, or get another family member to do it. Or even have an intervention type thing and all sit down in a non judgemental way and discuss your concerns.
If the main reaso shes marrying him is so she can have kkids, then she really needs to think of what type of kids this man would bring up...a bunch or arrogant, racist homophobes...and the rest??

There are things she can to like freeze her eggs etc, so she should have no worries about not bearing a child. She needs to leave him and find someone she really loves (as shes admited she doesnt even know what love it so clearly doesnt deel iit for brian) and really loves her. A proper match for a potential father/husband. Just not thos looser as i think he will have massive regrets and other huge problems if she marries him.
Talk to her. She may get a little upset at first but if u do tthis right, i know it could work as she obviously knows deep down what he is like etc but is fixated on having kids before it gets to late.
Hope it works out. Pls let us know how u get on and if ur sis see's sense and gets rid of this asshole

username123

buttoutnow wrote: »

I read all of your post, and I was most bothered by the level of over-involvement your family are having in your sister's relationship.

This is her relationship, her choice. You all need to back off and let her make her own mistakes.

Couldnt agree more.

To summarise, girl meets boy, boy seems lovely, time passes, it becomes clear that boy is not exactly as he originally sold himself. Family think boy is not good enough for girl and that girl is unhappy.

You are all too involved. Your sister has to make her own decisions. You can let her know that IF she is unhappy you are there for her, and that IF she needs to talk or make changes in her life that you will support her - but thats it.

The amount of detail you go into about her relationship is staggering. I am totally shocked that people would be taking that much note of a siblings relationship - its not really any of you or your familys business.

You have to let people make their own choices in life. Sure, offer support, but back off and let her live her own life.

LegacyUser

You know, too many people leave too much stuff unsaid in this country and the result is usually unhappiness.

A friend of mine was going out with a woman who used him from day one... I never got on with her. No one liked her; his family or our friends. No one had the guts to say anything to him.

He was one of these guys who thought that relationahsips were all drama and making up. They had a kid together. She was never right for him. He tried and tried to make it work. Eventually I had to tell him what no one else would. He said "well no one else thinks that" and I replied "have you ever asked them? Ask them straight and see"

He broke up with her and is now married to a really nice woman; kind and caring. His ex is still nasty.

I would have felt like a **** friend had I not said how we felt - and I would expect my friends and family to say something to me if I was making a mistake.

As for people saying "she has made her decision", well yes, but people make decisions and then change their minds. when it comes to marriages people are less likely to pull out the closer they get to the date.

Tell her that you don't think that she is happy. Offer her support. Tell her what you think of yer man. You'll only have one chance to do this so make sure it hits home.

Say that you feel that she is not happy about the wedding and go from there.

Do it for your sister and her future happiness.

daisybelle2008

VaiaV wrote: »

So while all of this was going on Maire was still, it would seem determined to make this relationship work.

At this point I should say that Brain to the best of my knowledge does treat my sister well in a direct sense. He is kind to her and does a lot of tasks for her.

Ok at this stage I hope that my own reservations are clear.

Your sister obviously does not share your reservations. She is determined to make this work and you would do well to butt out and mind your own business and support her choice.

You almost seem obsessed with this and you are spending too much time on this. He might not be what you have in mind for her but it is what she is settling for.

You and your family are not helping the situation with your judgmental opinions (believe me she can sense them) and they are probably causing more distress to her than Brian and his ways.

If the fact he may be a racist and homophobic is not a deal-breaker for your sister, then that's her problem.

She is a big girl let her learn her lessons and be there for her if she needs you. But for gods sake find something productive to do with your time, all this fretting about something that is none of your business cannot be doing you any good either.

She has decided what she wants to do this her life, the fact you don't agree with how she should be living her life is better kept to yourself.