If You Hav'nt Played Top Club Level Don't Judge Hurling

CyberDave

This is something that I have been thinking about, mainly because it pi55es me off big time.

I'm a massive hurling fan. Go to loads of County Cup games and all the inter-county ones my own county are invloved in. I played underage hurling at every level for my club and because I moved away from home didn't really ever have a proper crack at making the local club Senior team. I have played Junior but only for one season.

A mate of mine has been a stalwart on the Senior team for a few years now and we were talking in the pub recently. His point was that I'm not really entitled to an opinion on Senior Club hurling as I have never played it myself. Now he may have been trying to wind me up more than anything, but it pi55ed me off. I love hurling and regret never having played it to the highest level I can. I do however believe that I know the game well from my huge interest in it and limited playing experience.

Obviously the likes of Ger Loughnane's opinions will be valued far more than a Joe Soap supporter like me. The mate in question is a very dedicated club man, but rarely goes to inter-county matches or indeed other club games if they do not have a direct connection to our own club.

What are people's opinions on this?

premierstone

CyberDave wrote: »

What are people's opinions on this?

Your mate is talking ****e tbh, next time he mentions anything about the premiership ask him if he has played professional soccer and when he says no, tell him to stfu as he obviously cant know anything about it if he hasnt played it

Clareman

I think professional pundits should have expierence of playing the game, but to say that supporters can't have an opinion just because they didn't play is ridicilous, it's a bit like saying you can't have an opinion on the Premiership cause you've never played in it.

hisholinessnb

Get new mates, that ones an eegit

G S R

CyberDave wrote: »

This is something that I have been thinking about, mainly because it pi55es me off big time.

I'm a massive hurling fan. Go to loads of County Cup games and all the inter-county ones my own county are invloved in. I played underage hurling at every level for my club and because I moved away from home didn't really ever have a proper crack at making the local club Senior team. I have played Junior but only for one season.

A mate of mine has been a stalwart on the Senior team for a few years now and we were talking in the pub recently. His point was that I'm not really entitled to an opinion on Senior Club hurling as I have never played it myself. Now he may have been trying to wind me up more than anything, but it pi55ed me off. I love hurling and regret never having played it to the highest level I can. I do however believe that I know the game well from my huge interest in it and limited playing experience.

Obviously the likes of Ger Loughnane's opinions will be valued far more than a Joe Soap supporter like me. The mate in question is a very dedicated club man, but rarely goes to inter-county matches or indeed other club games if they do not have a direct connection to our own club.

What are people's opinions on this?

To a degree (a very small degree) I think he has a point.

Firstly everyone is entitled to an opinion. Just because you didn't play senior club hurling doesn't mean you shouldn't have a respected opinion, however something that is forgotten by many that have never played senior club hurling is that the effort and commitment put in by a senior club hurler nowadays is unbelievable every year and all they get from a section of club 'supporters' (who are usually former players who packed it in at underage level) is abuse. I'm not saying you're in that brigade OP, I'm just saying it happens and it's highly annoying to be on the receiving end of such abuse from lads that don't realise the commitment involved.

Bbbbolger

Every year at our club, no matter how well our Senior team plays, theres always people going around talking about "this fella" who doesn't deserve his place or how shocking "that fella" was the other day. The lads on the team put in a monumental effort in training and during games and yet one or two slips and they have these so called club-men talking about them as if they could do any better (despite spending their nights glued to a bar stool). At this stage the players have began to act a bit like your friend at times. Its almost an automatic response, brought on by the bregrudgery of their critics. I'd prefer the team banding together and acting this way than the fools talking about them getting their way with the club.

Edit: Btw I'm not saying you're by any means that type of person. I can just see where your friend may have been coming from.

aidan24326

G S R wrote: »

is that the effort and commitment put in by a senior club hurler nowadays is unbelievable every year

We all know the huge effort that goes into it. But it's a bit condescending to turn around to a lad and say you don't understand since you're not playing anymore, hence your opinion doesn't count. A dedicated follower who goes to all the games is more than entitled to an opinion, and ultimately that's all it is anyway, an opinion. I stopped playing competitive hurling a few years ago, does that mean I can't have a say on it anymore? That's nonsense. I'll still give my opinion, and if I'm wrong then tell me so. Overall I find the posters on this forum to be fairly knowledgable, regardless of whether they still play or not.

keane2097

There is no merit whatsoever to the notion that you have to have played a game to understand it.

Tell your mate Jose Mourinho says hi the next time he starts talking shit. Pretty sure Sean Boylan never played at any decent level either.

washman3

Take a trip to Thomond Park on a match day. of the 26,000 present around 20,000 will never have attended a local junior rugby game let alone actually played.
So OP you are not alone.!!

eigrod

I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Cyril Farrell didn't play at the highest level, but he certainly made a great coach and is probably the best analyst on TV.

washman3

Sean Boylan never played football for Meath, actually played hurling. not certain what club level of football he played. somebody might enlighten us.??
Jack O'Connor of Kerry played very little top flight football. indeed his current clubmate Declan O'Sullivan plays junior football with Dromid Pearses.

Pete_Cavan

CyberDave wrote: »

A mate of mine has been a stalwart on the Senior team for a few years now and we were talking in the pub recently. His point was that I'm not really entitled to an opinion on Senior Club hurling as I have never played it myself.

I hope your mate applied the same logic to himself and refused to express an opinion on the weather unless he is a meteorologist, didnt offer an opinion on any chart music unless he has had a song in the charts and declined to put forward any beliefs he held on politics unless he was a politician. Im sure he talked shіte about every other topic of conversation on the night and only used that line when it suited him. No doubt the only reason he came out with that line is because he was of a different opinion to you yet he could not back up his opinion. Its the debating equivalent of knocking over the draughts board when it becomes obvious you are going to lose.

Also, the fact remains that you were in a pub, you are allowed to talk shіte about something even if you know absolutely nothing about it. If you were only allowed to discuss things you are an expert on in a pub, the pub would become a pretty boring place.

ProudDUB

Of course you are entitled to have an opinion despite not playing at senior level. Whether or not people listen to it, respect it or agree with it depends on how intelligently and logically you are able to express it. If it is some general discussion about hurling, I imagine you'd do pretty well considering how many games you go to. However, if the topic of conversation was specific to being a senior hurler, that only they would have experience or knowledge of (such as how best to prepare for an AI final, how to deal with the media and sponsors, how playing in Croker is different to other parks etc etc) I'd expect people not to pay as much attention to my pov as they would those who have been down that road.

teednab-el

Your mate is talking sh**e. I never played hurling or football at the highest level because our club is junior but all I can say is that when I played junior I gave it my all on the pitch to the best of my ability and so did my team-mates so if your mate said that to me, I would tell him to go fcuk himself.

CyberDave

I agree with what most of what ye are saying about the same rule applying to him if he goes on about the Premiership or any other topic for that matter.

I think the lad in question does resent criticism of any sort because of the huge effort he does put in. He is always at training first, goes to the gym regularly in between sessions and stays off the beer for weeks before a match. In the past he has asked me what I thought after a game (hence he values my opinion) and I have told him certain players we're playing well below what I knew they could produce. I have never openly criticised his game, but then because of his huge commitment he rarely makes many mistakes. I have huge respect for him because I understand the commitment needed as I wasn't able to give that commitment myself.

He often takes it upon himself to text
other team members to tell them to lay off the beer before matches if he has seen/heard about them drinking. He really dislikes the guys on the team who play consistently well despite putting in the minimum effort. They seem to be naturally fit and skillful. He settles for nothing less than 110% effort, so I can understand to a degree now why he resents criticism from anyone in or supporting the club.

Littlehorny

The player that sticks in my mind is Nicky English, he only hurled with a junior club, yet was no.1 in the country in the early 90's and went on to manage Tipp to an All Irealand so basically your mate is talking balls. As said before just because you are a good player does not make you a good analyst or reader of a game from the sideline.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

CyberDave wrote: »

His point was that I'm not really entitled to an opinion on Senior Club hurling as I have never played it myself

as a matter of interest, does your mate have any opinions on the english premier league? would his logic apply here too

FeckinUsername

That is pure nonsense. Some of the most knowledgeable people in sport have never actually played to a high standard. Mourinho is a classic example.

Gophur

By this logic only the best exponent in any sport would be allowed comment at any time, i.e. nobody would be allowed.

Some non-players can be very astute observers and readers of the game while some fantastic exponents of the game couldn't tell you anything intelligible about the game.

calvin_zola

Your friend was right.

Black Suir

CyberDave wrote: »

This is something that I have been thinking about, mainly because it pi55es me off big time.

I'm a massive hurling fan. Go to loads of County Cup games and all the inter-county ones my own county are invloved in. I played underage hurling at every level for my club and because I moved away from home didn't really ever have a proper crack at making the local club Senior team. I have played Junior but only for one season.

A mate of mine has been a stalwart on the Senior team for a few years now and we were talking in the pub recently. His point was that I'm not really entitled to an opinion on Senior Club hurling as I have never played it myself. Now he may have been trying to wind me up more than anything, but it pi55ed me off. I love hurling and regret never having played it to the highest level I can. I do however believe that I know the game well from my huge interest in it and limited playing experience.

Obviously the likes of Ger Loughnane's opinions will be valued far more than a Joe Soap supporter like me. The mate in question is a very dedicated club man, but rarely goes to inter-county matches or indeed other club games if they do not have a direct connection to our own club.

What are people's opinions on this?

Agree with you. RTE should sack the likes of Mulcahy, Farrell etc and bring in some of the people you talk about. You should go onto the Waterford page and see some of the experts there. Because some of them played underage hurling with some of the intercounty players, or they know some of them or maybe live in an area where the stronger clubs are, they are experts. There is pages and pages of nonsense about how Michael RYan has brought two players from his own club in to have a look at in the intercounty set up. Because they are part of the senior football set up and because they live at the opposite end to the county to the city they are already dismissed as no good and are told they should stick to football. I hope to God that these same people will be made eat their words. Watching the players in quiestion with a number of years, i know that while when it comes to skill etc they may be no Tony Browne, Paul FLynn or Ken MCGrath, but what they have to a 100% commitment to what ever they try and do.

brandon_flowers

washman3 wrote: »

Sean Boylan never played football for Meath, actually played hurling. not certain what club level of football he played. somebody might enlighten us.??
Jack O'Connor of Kerry played very little top flight football. indeed his current clubmate Declan O'Sullivan plays junior football with Dromid Pearses.

You were right up to a few weeks ago. Dromid promoted to Intermediate. But your correct in what you say, many of the Kerry greats would never have played Senior Club football they would only have played with divisional teams. Not to start a list but the ones I can think of completely off hand are

Tim Kennelly
Jimmy Deenihan
Jack O'Shea
Maurice Fitz
Mick O'Connell

Current bunch
Killian Young
Seamus Scanlon
Anthony Maher
Bryan Sheehan
Darran & Declan O Sullivan

and probably more...

And back to your original point OP tell your friend that he doesn't know much about hurling if he only knows about ye're own club - stalwart or not.

c_man

I was gonna lambast Fair City on the Soap forum but unfortunately having never acted who am I to judge

morcheen k

how many managers ,in all sports, have not played at the highest level ? and all those film critics who have never made a film.shame on them

CyberDave

I think his main problem is me passing any type of judgement on players especially when I do not play or put in the effort like him and the rest of the lads.

Funfair

G S R wrote: »

To a degree (a very small degree) I think he has a point.

Firstly everyone is entitled to an opinion. Just because you didn't play senior club hurling doesn't mean you shouldn't have a respected opinion, however something that is forgotten by many that have never played senior club hurling is that the effort and commitment put in by a senior club hurler nowadays is unbelievable every year and all they get from a section of club 'supporters' (who are usually former players who packed it in at underage level) is abuse. I'm not saying you're in that brigade OP, I'm just saying it happens and it's highly annoying to be on the receiving end of such abuse from lads that don't realise the commitment involved.

Our U10's or U14's put in as much effort and commitment every season as the seniors, they train longer hours even winning more trophy's on the way...

They get sweet f A back off the club only a few chips and burgers when they win a final as opposed to our seniors who get free hurleys, gear, food after training and a free bar at the local if they win a few games let alone a final.
They have physio's, the pitch when they like, trainers and dietitians brought in etc.. basicly every Euro in the club goes to the seniors, yet they give nothing back most wouldn't put a euro in a box for a fundraiser and you have the cheek to say a guy who played underage hurling has no right to comment on the game.

Get a grip senior club hurlers have it softer then underage and deserve all the abuse they get as most are a shower of wasters.

bruschi

Funfair wrote: »

Our U10's or U14's put in as much effort and commitment every season as the seniors, they train longer hours even winning more trophy's on the way...

They get sweet f A back off the club only a few chips and burgers when they win a final as opposed to our seniors who get free hurleys, gear, food after training and a free bar at the local if they win a few games let alone a final.
They have physio's, the pitch when they like, trainers and dietitians brought in etc.. basicly every Euro in the club goes to the seniors, yet they give nothing back most wouldn't put a euro in a box for a fundraiser and you have the cheek to say a guy who played underage hurling has no right to comment on the game.

Get a grip senior club hurlers have it softer then underage and deserve all the abuse they get as most are a shower of wasters.

I'd say you are great to have involved in the club. Saying senior club players deserve abuse and are a shower of wasters? I'm just glad our club has no one like you on the sidelines.

Funfair

bruschi wrote: »

I'm just glad our club has no one like you on the sidelines.

As far I'm concerned club hurling stops at Minor so you'll never see me at a senior club match so your prima donnas status and all the kick backs to play is safe.

bruschi

Funfair wrote: »

As far I'm concerned club hurling stops at Minor so you'll never see me at a senior club match so your prima donnas status and all the kick backs to play is safe.

well seeing as you know absolutley nothing about me or what our club does, it says more about you than anything.

that amount of bitterness is horrible to see in a club.

johnny_cash

The local club have gave the managers job to one of the local lads that lives in the village.The man honestly never played any gaa in his life except if the junior team couldn't gather enough lad to make the team.It's a huge mistake in my opinion not because he never played but he's friend with a lot of lads on the team and they simply won't take him serious.

dartsfan

What level of soccer did Arsene Wenger and Jose Mourinho play at?