Why has Ruairi Quinn not resigned ?

088 Mobile phone

He promised before the election in front of everybody that he would not support an increase in student reg fees or a cut in the grant.

Teclo

he's too important to resign :rolleyes:

hatrickpatrick

In cases such as these, there should be an automatic bye-election.
Politicians should have some kind of deterrent to stop them from lying to stesl votes. The current status quo where they know they can talk through their arses and face no consequences for five years is utterly ridiculous.

nesf

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

In cases such as these, there should be an automatic bye-election.

What nonsense, economic situations can drastically change over the life of a Government there is no way any pre-election promise should be legally binding on a politician unless you can believe they can look into their magic ball and predict the future.

Manach

Given the very well known state of the economy, for Mr Quinn to make such such statements was disengenious but it is not a matter for resignation. However, if politicians do ever wonder why they are held in such low trust by the electorate in poll after poll ...

WeeBushy

He probably shouldn't have made a pre-election promise on the matter (I don't really like pre-election promises in general btw), however even between the time he made it and when the budget came around things changed dramatically. He may well have meant it at the time but he didn't have much of a choice come budget time.

Seeing as people are bashing his decision, how would you propose to raise the money?

Teclo

Seeing as people are bashing his decision, how would you propose to raise the money?

If we could only sell his ego...

WeeBushy

Teclo wrote: »

If we could only sell his ego...

Constructive.

088 Mobile phone

WeeBushy wrote: »

Seeing as people are bashing his decision, how would you propose to raise the money?

Cut public service pay for people earning over 60k by 15%, Sell the RTE and the lotto, Put higher taxes on offlicence and supermarket drink, 10 cent chewing gum levy.

reprazant

088 Mobile phone wrote: »

Cut public service pay for people earning over 60k by 15%, Sell the RTE and the lotto, Put higher taxes on offlicence and supermarket drink, 10 cent chewing gum levy.

So make the vast majority of people suffer instead of the students?

Who would buy RTE?

Why should public sector workers suffer but not students?

3rd level education is a luxury, not a right.

Son Of A Vidic

088 Mobile phone wrote: »

He promised before the election in front of everybody that he would not support an increase in student reg fees or a cut in the grant.

A politician to resign over a broken promise and a failure to keep to their word? Are you really surprised? This is Ireland after all and the Irish politician is a pretty unique type of scumbag.

laoch na mona

I think you will find he had his fingers crossed
and we misunderstood what he said he was really saying vote for me shur im brilliant

laoch na mona

reprazant wrote: »

3rd level education is a luxury, not a right.

That's a bit dated

MagicMarker

Politicians should be forbidden from making pre-election promises full stop.

Liam Byrne

Manach wrote: »

Given the very well known state of the economy, for Mr Quinn to make such such statements was disengenious but it is not a matter for resignation. However, if politicians do ever wonder why they are held in such low trust by the electorate in poll after poll ...

Hatrick has a point. If I lie during a job interview about how I'll do X and Y, I get fired......and I won't get a sickeningly massive payoff either.

BlaasForRafa

088 Mobile phone wrote: »

Cut public service pay for people earning over 60k by 15%, Sell the RTE and the lotto, Put higher taxes on offlicence and supermarket drink, 10 cent chewing gum levy.

A chewing gum levy lol, thats almost as good as Clare Daly getting everyone to work at fixing septic tanks.

There are a whole load of things that need to be done to get the deficit down and higher student fees are one of them. This outrage at every measure is getting a bit ridiculous, people need to be realistic about the state the country is in.

Gonzor

reprazant wrote: »

3rd level education is a luxury, not a right.

Im a 3rd level student at the minute and Id have to agree that we dont deserve or have a right to "free college".

Dont get me wrong, I love that its there. It means I dont have to work half as many hours as I would if it wasnt there.... but at the same time, Im not under any delusions into thinking I have a right to a free college education.

Its a kick in the bollix all the same that I didnt get in and get through college during the celtic tiger but sure there you go.

steelcityblues

nesf wrote: »

What nonsense, economic situations can drastically change over the life of a Government there is no way any pre-election promise should be legally binding on a politician unless you can believe they can look into their magic ball and predict the future.

Then don't promise lovely things in the first place, and be more realistic with the people. Quinn seems to be content to carry on, and pretend he did nothing wrong.

Chucky the tree

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Hatrick has a point. If I lie during a job interview about how I'll do X and Y, I get fired......and I won't get a sickeningly massive payoff either.

He doesn't really. It's a nice idea in theory but completely unworkable. It would be like saying you'll do X and Y and then being hired and told you only have enough money to do X or being told they've hired someone else to do the job with you and they promised they wouldn't do Y.

nesf

steelcityblues wrote: »

Then don't promise lovely things in the first place, and be more realistic with the people. Quinn seems to be content to carry on, and pretend he did nothing wrong.

Last time FG/Lab tried that they got absolutely trounced at the polls by FF. Politicians will start doing it when we start rewarding them for it.

steelcityblues

nesf wrote: »

Last time FG/Lab tried that they got absolutely trounced at the polls by FF. Politicians will start doing it when we start rewarding them for it.

So, are you implying that election results are the only things that matter in politics?

It was a blatant move by Labour to capture the 'student vote', rather than being honest with the electorate. People in general don't like being lied to.

Bababa

Public sector should be docked 50% on their wages and get the rest if they perform. Is too easy for them to sit around the office talking sh1t to their cohorts...and getting paid for it.
Politicians promise the sun,moon and stars during any election campaign. Only fools believed these retrabates were genuine, different or had an ounce of ability amongst them...apart from being qualified spoofers.
Says it all when a primary school teacher ends up running the country!!!

Does that make us a nation full of kids? I suppose... we are being told to sit in the corner and do as we are told!!!

Chucky the tree

steelcityblues wrote: »

So, are you implying that election results are the only things that matter in politics?

It was a blatant move by Labour to capture the 'student vote', rather than being honest with the electorate. People in general don't like being lied to.

The electorate are to stupid or selfish to be to be told the truth is the main problem.

steelcityblues

Chucky the tree wrote: »

The electorate are to stupid or selfish to be to be told the truth is the main problem.

I agree that there are some very stupid, ill informed, members of the electorate. But people who use statements like that are validating politicians to deceive us.

Chucky the tree

steelcityblues wrote: »

I agree that there are some very stupid, ill informed, members of the electorate. But people who use statements like that are validating politicians to deceive us.

But why shouldn't they when they know being honest won't work?

steelcityblues

Chucky the tree wrote: »

But why shouldn't they when they know being honest won't work?

Are you a relativist, by any chance?

Look at this way, I - and others - would not have to post so much here, if more politicians valued honestly.

Chucky the tree

steelcityblues wrote: »

Are you a relativist, by any chance?

Look at this way, I - and others - would not have to post so much here, if more politicians valued honestly.

I wouldn't call myself one but I'd think along similar lines quite often( I didn't even know what it meant until I googled it there :pac:). Politicians wouldn't be politicians if they valued honestly as they'd never be elected. for example look at Quinn. He was elected in Dublin South East and lets say he had to step down because he was honest about the increase in college fees. Chris Andrews and every other candidate would be a huge advantage over him because they could lie all they like and know they'd never have to back up what they say.

nesf

steelcityblues wrote: »

So, are you implying that election results are the only things that matter in politics?

Pretty much yeah, for a party. For any mainstream politician the core goal is to get elected and run the country no?

steelcityblues wrote: »

It was a blatant move by Labour to capture the 'student vote', rather than being honest with the electorate. People in general don't like being lied to.

Sure, no argument there.

chattycatty

Hi All..
As a former student in 2010/2011, I believe each student in receipt of a grant should have to pay it back when they start working. This would stop certain families not declaring their means when applying for a grant. The grant has not been cut , as the increase in fees is been covered while the student who as to pay it all is being penalised by another 250 euro. So students who receive grants should appreciate it that the taxpayer is funding them as it stands. It is these honest taxpayers children who don't receive a grant. If a student really wants to go to college they would be more willing to pay it back at the end of college.This would stop students wasting money in college when they don't even want to do the course.
I am not saying every student parents is not declaring their means,just their a rather large proportion of the self employed and farming community children who are in receipt of grants that do not deserve it.

pconn062

chattycatty wrote: »

Hi All..
As a former student in 2010/2011, I believe each student in receipt of a grant should have to pay it back when they start working. This would stop certain families not declaring their means when applying for a grant. The grant has not been cut , as the increase in fees is been covered while the student who as to pay it all is being penalised by another 250 euro. So students who receive grants should appreciate it that the taxpayer is funding them as it stands. It is these honest taxpayers children who don't receive a grant. If a student really wants to go to college they would be more willing to pay it back at the end of college.This would stop students wasting money in college when they don't even want to do the course.
I am not saying every student parents is not declaring their means,just their a rather large proportion of the self employed and farming community children who are in receipt of grants that do not deserve it.

There is so much wrong with this post I actually don't know where to begin. Where are you getting your figures from when you say large amounts of self employed and farming families are not declaring their earnings, or are you just making that up on the back of one or two examples that you know of?
Also you say the grant has not been cut, really? It's been cut several times, also the boundaries relating to how far away you have to live away from the college have been extended so my grant has been cut by 60% this year, any my earnings/my parents earnings are the same as least year but my grant is down by 60%.
Also try to avoid making sweeping generalised comments like "students wasting money in college when they don't even want to do the course". Again this is not the case with all students who receive grants just because it is the case with one or two people you know. Maybe do some research before you post.

chattycatty

Hey..
You need to relax,I have done six years of college without any financial aid from anyone,if you really want to do something in life one can.

As it stand the Irish education system at third level is quite generous when compared against other countries .

Also having previously worked in the department that provides the grants ,I do have enough knowledge of the corruption that goes on with the figures and accounts sent in by certain people ,I never said everyone.

If students were paying the fee bill they would think long and hard about what they wanted to do,I never said every student.

It appears you may be in a bad mood and that's fine,I just expressed my opinion which everyone is entitled to. I enjoyed college and enjoyed the life that came with it maybe you should to,it might relax you

pconn062

chattycatty wrote: »

Hey..
You need to relax,I have done six years of college without any financial aid from anyone,if you really want to do something in life one can.

As it stand the Irish education system at third level is quite generous when compared against other countries .

Also having previously worked in the department that provides the grants ,I do have enough knowledge of the corruption that goes on with the figures and accounts sent in by certain people ,I never said everyone.

If students were paying the fee bill they would think long and hard about what they wanted to do,I never said every student.

It appears you may be in a bad mood and that's fine,I just expressed my opinion which everyone is entitled to. I enjoyed college and enjoyed the life that came with it maybe you should to,it might relax you

I'm very relaxed, thanks for your concern, my reply was just referring to some of the weak points in your post. Fair play to you for going through college without financial aid, I couldn't do that because my parents could never afford to cover my fees or support me (as my Dad was made unemployed after working for 30 years and my mother is a full time carer for my disabled sister) so I support myself by working during the week in the college and at the weekends and with the assistance of state aid which is available to everyone who is entitled to it. So either you weren't because you or your parents earning were too high or you, or you simply just didn't apply for it.

The politics forum is seen as a serious discussion forum so you can really submit posts with huge sweeping generalisations like your first post, if I didn't call you up on it someone else would. Anyway, have a nice Christmas.

chattycatty

To be honest ,if you want an argument ,you need to cop on a bit, I never brought my parents into the equation and nor will I as at 18 one is responsible for themselves.

The grants is goodwill of the government and just appreciate you are in receipt instead of complaining everything is so hard for you .

I paid fees,rent all out of my own pocket for my own reasons and worked several jobs like you to do so with out a grant .

The best thing for you to do is to stop feeling so hard done by because of parents situation, each family has it's own problems. The bitter attitude will get you no-where. As I said I was expressing my opinion and you appear to have come for a little attack, because poor you everything is not going your way ,that is life it suck's some times but hard times make people stronger.

You have got your health and are able to go to college and work so enjoy it, as there is always someone worse than you.

pconn062

chattycatty wrote: »

To be honest ,if you want an argument ,you need to cop on a bit, I never brought my parents into the equation and nor will I as at 18 one is responsible for themselves.

The grants is goodwill of the government and just appreciate you are in receipt instead of complaining everything is so hard for you .

I paid fees,rent all out of my own pocket for my own reasons and worked several jobs like you to do so with out a grant .

The best thing for you to do is to stop feeling so hard done by because of parents situation, each family has it's own problems. The bitter attitude will get you no-where. As I said I was expressing my opinion and you appear to have come for a little attack, because poor you everything is not going your way ,that is life it suck's some times but hard times make people stronger.

You have got your health and are able to go to college and work so enjoy it, as there is always someone worse than you.

I'm going to leave it at this because I'm simply not bothered. I didn't "attack" you as you stated, you posted your opinion on an open forum, I disagreed with your viewpoint and said so, that's how discussion forums work. If you just want someone to agree with you the whole time you would be better talking to one of your friends or your partner. You obviously don't post very often because that's was happens, people have opinions and others disagree.
In regards to you "stop feeling so hard done by" comment. (Your bitter attitude remark made me smile) Point out anywhere in my posts where I said I was hard done by. I simply stated the facts of my situation and my work situation, like you did. I pointed out that the grants were cut yes, but that is fact. Anyway, I think you will find I made the first attempt to be polite so I am most definitely not looking for an argument, again, it's a discussion forum. And I'll say it again, I hope you have a nice Christmas

P

chattycatty

Okay..its obviously made you feel better about yourself to write that on the forum , it progress in overcoming that attitude and the bitterness. Those words don't have to be said it's the way you wrote the comment venting your anger.
Best of luck in the future