Is De Valera portrayed in Boardwalk Empire

AOMURCHU

Was wondering if S02 E02 of boardwalk empire featured a very boring De Valera figure looking for cash for war at home. If so it was not flattering to him.

jonniebgood1

Please clarify what exactly you are querying with OP.

Ms. Chanandler Bong

It's not him, he features in a later episode as well & mentions Dev going off to negotiate Home Rule.

ejmaztec

http://boardwalkempire.wikia.com/wiki/Eamon_de_Valera

http://boardwalkempire.wikia.com/wiki/John_McGarrigle

Two completely different characters, and Dev is only ever mentioned according to these links. The lack of information on McGarrigle leads me to believe that he never existed, or is based on someone else.

I think that some/most of the characters in Boardwalk Empire existed in real life, but how historically accurate it is, I don't know.

dubhthach

ejmaztec wrote: »

http://boardwalkempire.wikia.com/wiki/Eamon_de_Valera

http://boardwalkempire.wikia.com/wiki/John_McGarrigle

Two completely different characters, and Dev is only ever mentioned according to these links. The lack of information on McGarrigle leads me to believe that he never existed, or is based on someone else.

I think that some/most of the characters in Boardwalk Empire existed in real life, but how historically accurate it is, I don't know.

I like Boardwalk Empire but I do think they over-emphasied Belfast with regards to the War of Indepence. No doubt as they are playing to their audience somewhat knowledge of the Northern Troubles.

One little detail which I really like in one episodes this season is where Margaret joins the Irish staff in drinking some whiskey in the kitchen. They have a bottle of "John Jameson Three Star Whiskey" just like this:




From era of 1915-20 the following rare "5 star" Jameson was founded recently hidden away during Prohibition:

kabakuyu

Could Mcgarrigle be based on real life Joseph Mcgarritty http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_McGarrity

jonniebgood1

Note to users:

I have moved the more general chat about the forum to a new thread in feedback. see link here.

This should allow a better discussion on the matter if necessary as any criticisms can be expressed freely there.

jonniebgood1

Note that this thread will remain open in the hope that it may lead to a discussion on De Valera. I would suggest that if users are interested in discussion regarding De Valera in the context of this thread it would seem the following could be discussed:
What type of Fundraising did De Valera carry out in America?
who did he carry it out with?
What did his compatriots that remained in Ireland think of his fundraising,
Particularly after independence what was the manner of his dealings with America- what was he promising at this stage?

I would prefer if the thread goes in this sort of direction and will be glad to contribute. It could be interesting.

dubhthach

Here is a photo of a Bond Certificate for $10 that would have been sold during Dev's trip. as you can see it has Éamonn de Ḃailéara (de Bhailéara) as a signatory as well as Seán Ua Núnáin (Ua = Ó)



A total of £5m was raised by the Bond sale in the US. However 60% of this sum was kept in bank accounts in the US that were controlled by Dev. He later used it to help setup the Irish Press, though of course there were court actions from Bond holders, which saw them been paid 58 cents/dollar (basically a default). The remaining 42cents/dollar was paid out of Irish exchequeor once FF got into power in the 1930's. (Tim Pat Coogan: A Memoir p. 252-253)

To put this in context the budget cost of Ardnacrusha was £5.2m when at time total state budget per year in the late 1920's was £25m/year.

jonniebgood1

The bond certificates were a break though for DeValera. He had not seen eye to eye with some of the Irish Americans but they could not be seen to go against this idea. According to 'Irish nationalism and the American contribution' by Lawrence John McCaffrey (pg 87), 4 million dollars was eventually spent in ireland. It would be good to see exactly what this money was specifically spent on?
There were court cases in America in the late 1920's and early 30's in relation to peoples contributions to the Irish conflict. My understanding is that in the case of irish free state vs. safe deposit company that De valera was as trustee of a fund awarded further monies (dispite losing the case). This was a culmination of what had been a fractious relationship that signals the resentment felt by some of the American organisations (such as friends of Irish freedom). He was not fully welcomed by them as they also had other domestic priorities.

jonniebgood1

This is a copy of the issuing letter that accompanied the Bond certificate shown in dubhthachs post. It is from an auction site and a bond certificate was sold their in September 2011 for €240. They had been selling for more previously.

http://www.whytes.ie/4ImageDisplay.asp?AUCTION=20110924&IMAGE=343

"This certificate will be your record that when Ireland appealed to you in the name of Liberty you responded to the acid test of sincerity"
There is also reference to the conditions on a tender form which I have not yet found.

jonniebgood1

The Dail gave there thanks to the American contributors in this link:

THE PRESIDENT said he did not think it right that they should allow this Report to pass without giving expression of their thanks to the people of America for their generosity in subscribing to our Funds. It was generous, because they could not give the subscribers the same security for their bonds as other nations, which were recognised internationally, could give, but they intended that every one of these bonds would be made good by the Irish nation.

They asked for a Loan of ten million dollars in America, and they had received already five and a half millions. They got full value for the bond, and that value of five and a half million dollars was now in the Irish Treasury.

If there is one man to whom more than another the Irish nation should be thankful for the success of that enterprise it was the Chairman of the American Delegation on Irish Independence, Mr. Frank P. Walsh. He would be ungrateful if he did not say there that whilst he was in America and whilst his colleagues were in America there was never one single request that they asked of Mr. Walsh that he was not ready to accede to. His time and his influence were at their disposal. He put them at their disposal, because he felt that he was working in a noble cause. It was as a champion of that noble cause and as a friend of Ireland that they welcomed him there.

Also he would be ungrateful if he did not mention the person to whom most of the executive work in America fell. He was not at the present time, they regretted, a member of their Assembly. He referred to the late Member for Kilkenny, Mr. O'Meara. The fact that their funds were what they are to-day was due to the work in America of Mr. Frank P. Walsh and Mr. O'Meara.

Whilst they recognised the generosity of their friends in foreign countries, and whilst he was asking them to pass a vote of thanks to the American people and asking that Mr. Walsh should be for them in America the interpreter of their gratitude, he thought it would be wrong if they passed from these accounts without speaking of the magnificent response of their own people to the call.

In Ireland it had often been said in the past that their own people when asked would contribute more, even in proportion to their means, than people abroad. They were ready to give up their lives and their money for Ireland; and in Ireland, owing directly to the work done by the Minister of Finance, to whom all credit in Ireland was due, the amount that was asked for was oversubscribed by about one-half. Hence he thought they could feel that they had behind them the strength of the Irish people.

He was not such a cynic as to take it as an absolute test, but it was said that the best test they had of the support of the people was the amount they were ready to contribute in support of a movement. They would regard it as a good test.

The Irish people had responded to that test magnificently, and their friends in America had responded to it magnificently. He asked them to give Mr. Frank P. Walsh the duly authenticated thanks of that Assembly, to be conveyed by him to the American people, and also to give the Minister of Finance a vote of thanks, to be conveyed to the people of Ireland.

He was asking the nation as a whole to thank those who were pioneers, and who had enabled them to get thus far with the nation's work.

MR. MICHAEL COLLINS seconded the vote of thanks. He said he desired particularly to add his tribute to the work that had been done by the workers at home. Their friends in America could subscribe their five dollars and they could carry their receipts about in their [26] pockets without having a gun stuck under their noses if they were found. The people of Ireland had to subscribe under those conditions, and they did subscribe and took their receipts; and they worked for the loan through many holds-up and through many nights and days.

It was nearly as bad to have a loan receipt found on one as it was to be found with a gun. That was what the people who subscribed to this loan had to stand, and he could only hope and he could only assure them that, as far as he was concerned, his part would be done in making good the promises that these bonds would be redeemed.

AN CEANN COMHAIRLE: Cuirim an rún seo os bhúr gcóir: Vote of thanks : “That we the Members of Dáil Eireann, the duly elected Parliament of the Irish Republic, in Public Session assembled this 17th day of August, 1921, hereby declare the gratitude of the Irish nation to the people of the United States of America for the warm support they have always given to the cause of Ireland and particularly for their generous subscription to the First Loan of the Irish Government, and we furthermore declare that each Bond Certificate purchased in the United States will be redeemed in due course by the Irish nation.”

Ceist curtha agus aontuithe. http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/DT/D.S.192108170006.html

jonniebgood1

One of the main criticisms of DeValera for his time in the US is that he did not succeed in getting official recognition for an Irish Republic. A major gain that should go alongside that but is missed is the amount that he broadened the appeal of irish independence beyond those just immediately descended from Irish immigrants. This was best illustrated in the people involved in the preparation of the document "Evidence on conditions in Ireland". These people were listed as followis and shows a wide range of people:

5 State gov-
ernors, 11 United States Senators, 13 Congressmen, the mayors of
15 large cities, the late Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop Keane, 7
Protestant Episcopal bishops, 4 Roman Catholic bishops, 4 Meth-
odist bishops, and other eminent public men and women, repre-
senting a broad diversity of racial stocks and political and religious
beliefs, and covering geographically 36 states of the Union.

The full text of this report can be sourced online here
It goes into great detail discussing how republican courts for example were functioning at the time and also includes views on the land acts.