Zerg help me thread!

Nuxy

Hey figured id post here before i post on TL,

Im looking for help, i used to be a Platnium Terran player then i went afk for a month or so, came back to the game an iv tried playing Zerg.. Alot of rage has followed this swithc >.<

My ZvT is fine i have nearly 100% record in this match up an ZvZ is a coin flip but i do pretty well..

Its my ZvP that sucks, im completely lost in this MU, i usually go 14 pool cos i get cannnon rushed alot in gold if i go hatch first, an take a fast 3rd, i usually go a roach hydra mix but i still lose laot of the time, 2 base timing pushes jus destroy me, if any Toss players out there wanna practice hit me up!

IRL_Sinister

Toss is really overpowered atm so I wouldn't worry about it. Just all in vs every single protoss youu meet on ladder (ie: ling/roach all in).

NeoSlicerZ

I don't think you realise when Protoss is extremely fragile PvZ, albeit I blame the map pool on ladder a fair bit in that you can cover that up to some extent.

IRL_Sinister

No. Toss is just OP :>

VikingErik

I'm but a lowly Silver, so higher level Protoss can correct me on this.

I find that ling runbys are quite hard to deal with, especially when you want to move out or take a third.

SO, if you keep a group of 10 lings nearby to the Protoss base and send them in as soon as you notice that he/she's moving out, I'd say you should be able to kill quite a few probes.

Keeping a small group of lings really active can also help you snipe off probes that are trying to set up proxy pylons or expand.

I don't know how useful this tip is at higher levels but I always struggle to deal with "random" groups of lings. They deny my scouting and scare me from pushing out before I have a "significant" army.

godspal

Ling run bys are easily stopped by good FF placement and a decent wall. In my opinion its a waste of larva trying to squeeze some lings into a protoss base.

Well you are macroing properly that's for sure.

However, to defeat Protoss as zerg you need to deny that third for as long as possible, and slow down tech. So ling/muta is a very way of spreading out the protoss army. You want to be sniping pylons and probes with the mutas and killing forges, cybernetics cores and warpgates at the front of the base with your lings.
You also want to be keeping the protoss army in their base. Basically with this strat you want time to be able to build up your economy enough so you can quickly tech switched. The one thing however you don't want to see is Collosi. So if your muta swoop in, snipping the Robotics Bay and then throw down a roach warren and hydra den straight away.
One final thing, you need to keep on top of. UPGRADES, UPGRADES, UPGRADES!

EDIT: Oh and 5-6 gate pushes, or Immortal timings can all be stopped by good scouting and when you think there is a push coming, put down 6 spines or so, and use your lings to pick off as many units as possible. You are not looking to be cost efficient, you are looking to kill as many units as possible within spine range.

StrOut88

7 gate all and its variations with blink/observer/VR/+2 attack are actually pretty easy for the zerg to hold providing you scout it early and act swiftly.

What intell can suggest that he's gonna all in you? Lots of early sentrys, fast upgrade being chronoed, little or no attempt to harass early game, lots of gateways in his base (need to sacrifice an overlord or two to see this), etc, etc.

You'll want to fight in an open area and with 4/5 spines. I don't think your unit composition matters too much. Upgraded lings/ infestors are really good. Go tunneling claw roaches if he has no obs, that will make him rage quit guaranteed.

PvZ is really hard lately now that zergs have learned to macro perfectly vs FFE up to the 7 min mark, while deflecting any protoss harass, and then going mass muta. ¬_¬

magicianz

StrOut88 wrote: »

What intell can suggest that he's gonna all in you? Lots of early sentrys, fast upgrade being chronoed, little or no attempt to harass early game, lots of gateways in his base (need to sacrifice an overlord or two to see this), etc, etc.

Uhm what? Im going to assume by all-in you meant to say 3 gate expand, a strat that has been out there a long time....

My advice to you, learn 14 gas 14 pool. I randomly decided to go with this build every game to try and perfect it and I just kept winning! I definately have a higher win percentage now and have been playing all plats and a few diamonds from my gold league spot.

My usual build is:
9 overlord
14 gas (Drones in as soon as possible)
14 pool
15 overlord
15 queen
17 ling
18 ling
Ling speed once you have 100 gas(pull 1 drone from gas)
Baneling nest as soon as you're at 50 gas
make 2/3 more drones and the rest of your larvae into lings
poke up his ramp with a 1 ling and check what he has
make as many banelings as you can, send 2 of them straight to him mineral line, rest can do what you want.
The object is to do as much economic damage as you can, while fitting in your own expo as you do it. I win a lot with this.

As for the different match ups, Check out DRG vs MC's latest match, MC goes FFE, DRG is in a commanding position for most of the game!

Decerto

magicianz wrote: »

Uhm what? Im going to assume by all-in you meant to say 3 gate expand, a strat that has been out there a long time....

He probably is referring to a forge FE, where you make sentrys out of your gateways initially to bank minerals to drop 5+ gates and if hes not making sentrys he is probably teching to stargate etc

StrOut88

magicianz wrote: »

Uhm what? Im going to assume by all-in you meant to say 3 gate expand, a strat that has been out there a long time...

3 gate expand is an opening, a dated one that's mostly bad nowadays in PvZ. Protosses have been going FFE on nearly every map, and either 1 gate expand or stargate expand on maps that are particularly hard to hold zerg all-ins. Usually you will see some sentrys with these strats but not the 8-10 that the 3 gate expand used to have. If you do see alot of sentrys with these strats then the protoss is probably gearing up for some kind of gateway attack.

He probably is referring to a forge FE, where you make sentrys out of your gateways initially to bank minerals to drop 5+ gates and if hes not making sentrys he is probably teching to stargate etc

Yeah. Plus sentrys themselves are also very good vs lings, roaches and spines.

godspal

Well nowadays I tend to gas steal straight away when I see the pylon on the high ground. You are either forcing/eliminating/delaying so many strategies, it even makes a 4 gate much weaker since all they can get are stalkers/zealots.

I know you are losing a chunk of minerals, but it cannot equal the amount of minerals you'll lose planting spores to fight off voids, or DTs, and it makes the 3-gate very exposed to a 2-base ling/roach all-in.

Ivan

This helped me a lot:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0B7058D9D46661D1

Jonny7

A very solid cheese way to beat up to Plat protoss (even Diamond) is the 3 roach rush. Build is on youtube, its very powerful.



If you dont want to cheese then..

If pylon is on high ground, go 14 pool and steal gas with scout probe
Make a few lings, and the second he attacks the gas, then try to get the lings in.


If pylon low ground (forge fast expand) then go for 2 base roach/ling all in, or nydus (great fun) - basically anything that hits them on around the 10 minute mark - after that they get too big.


At the end of the day you are really reacting to the Protoss, and you just have to use scouting to decide whether he is..

1. Cannon rushing you (easy to stop, 1 drone attacking his probe and 3 drones per cannon made)
2. 4 gating you (make lings and spines like crazy)
3. 1 base high gas high tech, DTs, Air (make queens and spores)
4. Forge fast expanding (either go 3 base straight away or go for nydus/roach-ling all in/baneling bust, etc)


If you let him 2 base beyond the ten minute mark and want a long game, then roach/corrupter still works if you keep upgrading and throw in something extra like drops.

Funnily enough, if you treat him like a Terran, i.e. spread creep everywhere and go ling/baneling.. eventually to Muta... its surprisingly effective.

Vickhoff

"Toss is really overpowered atm so I wouldn't worry about it. Just all in vs every single protoss youu meet on ladder (ie: ling/roach all in). "

Yea like the current balance situation in any way effects any player below top 8 master.


Not to be offensive, but any advice that tells you to go all in is just bad for you. To improve as a player no allinnish or cheesy strategy is a good way to go.

First of all; Stop building 14 pools hatch first+ send the first overlord you build(which means your second overlord in total) to over your natural to spot for cannon rushes. Try to delay gas as much as possible get a third at around 34~ supply(assuming FFE from toss) and get lair of a 3 base econ. against FFE your safe until the 8:20~ minute mark from gateway aggression

Laisurg

All about droning the right amount and not getting behind, I know it's very general but this screwed me over with protoss for a long time, anything past mid game before i have brood lords and bam i get rolled, look for ways to pressure and the like to try slow him down building his max army because unless you have a deathball (broodlord, infestor etc) the protoss army should win every time.
Although I have a mate whos better than me who I play a lot and the only time that I beat him without it being stupidly close is when i deny his 3rd constantly with roaches.
Also if they FFE you should be able to drone until 9-10 mins if they're not doing any 6 or 7 gate pushes, basically don't make units unless you really have to, learn the timings etc.

Well there's just some spiel for ya anyway, been thinking about ZvP a lot lately so hopefully you'll get something out of :P Good luck.

EDIT: I also don't do anything other than 14 pool opening now since it's so easy to cannon rush hatch first. (even if you scout the pylon straight away you'll be screwed with all that lost mining time and lose anyway)