FCC rules against loud commercials

dowtchaboy

Excessively loud television commercials should be a thing of the past, thanks to the Federal Communications Commission.

Responding to years of complaints that the volume on commercials was much louder than that of the programming that the ads accompany, the FCC on Tuesday passed the Commercial Advertisement Loudness Mitigation Act to make sure that the sound level is the same for commercials and news and entertainment programming.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-ct-fcc-loud-commercials-20111214,0,784179.story

Wish they'd do that here too! Those bloody Quinn Health ones where they use the excuse of a guy skiing etc. to shout really annoys me. Barry shouting about Cillit Bang, Hardly Normal,.... a few others..... grrrr!

Markdub2000

I'm quite tempted to drive a loud speaker truck outside Pat Shortts house at 3am in the morning and play 1890...222.. on loop.

watty

It's worse on RTE1 Radio news.
On TV you can at least use the mute.

dowtchaboy

watty wrote: »

It's worse on RTE1 Radio news.
On TV you can at least use the mute.

Indeed. The whole question of excessively loud ads might be considered a mute point......:D

Sam Russell

I think all adverts should be banned.

Fuzzy Clam

It's an age old problem,
I've experimented with the loudness controller on the TV 8182 processor mentioned here

The ATSC has recently released a Recommended Practice: Techniques for
Establishing and Maintaining Audio Loudness for Digital Television (A/85:2009). This
specifies use of a long-term loudness meter based on the ITU BS.1770 algorithm for
assessing and setting the loudness of DTV broadcasts.
For many years, Orban has used the Jones & Torick loudness controller and loudness
measuring technology
1
in its products for loudness control of sound for picture.
Developed after 15 years of psychoacoustic research at CBS Laboratories, the CBS
loudness controller accurately estimates the amount of perceived loudness in a
given piece of program material. If the loudness exceeds a preset threshold, the
controller automatically reduces it to that threshold. The CBS algorithm has proven
its effectiveness by processing millions of hours of on-air programming and greatly
reducing viewer complaints caused by loud commercials.
Since first licensing and using the CBS algorithm in its Optimod-TV 8182 back in the
early ‘80s, Orban has continually refined and developed this technology

Full paper
http://www.orban.com/support/orban/techtopics/White_Paper-BS_1770_vs_CBS_meter.pdf

copacetic

Europe and the EBU have been working on this for a number of years.

Good overview here (PDF)
http://tech.ebu.ch/docs/techreview/trev_2010-Q3_loudness_Camerer.pdf

And links to the various EBU recs here :
http://tech.ebu.ch/loudness

STB

Fuzzyclam you do realise that is a very impractical solution for a homeowner!

The references to ATSC may confuse some (its the American platform as distinct from DVB-T used here).

Like radio stations TV stations do use sound processing gear anyhow.

What the article above is discussing is why people tune out. The radio equivelant of the American Sound processing hardware you linked to above is the 8100, also made by Orban, but for FM. Analogue FM Radio stations used them since the early 80s sometimes with an XT2 add on. Settings on them give more vibrant or punchier output. The loudness wars of the 80s etc. Tests on how people tire of loud brash settings is well documented. These days you have many more manufacturers of processing gear like Omnia for example. they all claim not to tire the audiences through homogenised settings.

However, even Bob Orban cant make the makers of commercials tone down the content of their punchy adverts - shouted content designed to grab your attention by repititive mantras with loads of pre-processing cannot be undone regardless of the processing used (eg Apache Pizzas advert at present).

watty

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think all adverts should be banned.

Well on RTE1 Radio at least, possibly on 2FM (All the music and phone-ins should be moved from RTE1 Radio to 2FM). Unless some clever method of funding is discovered they are needed on Independent Radio and on TV.

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

Originally Posted by Sam Russell
I think all adverts should be banned.

Well on RTE1 Radio at least, possibly on 2FM (All the music and phone-ins should be moved from RTE1 Radio to 2FM). Unless some clever method of funding is discovered they are needed on Independent Radio and on TV.

Well, you could help the funding issue by not paying massive amounts to 'STARS' who could be replaced by competent lesser beings.

Also, if you look at the credits of programmes, there are what appears to be hundreds of helpers, pot carriers, lighters, pushers, assistant directors, directors, producers, executive producers, series producers, etc. when twenty years ago, there would be half a dozen names or so. There would be savings there if the ones that do, did more.

Why do we have to advertise all the time.

Fuzzy Clam

STB wrote: »

Fuzzyclam you do realise that is a very impractical solution for a homeowner!

The references to ATSC may confuse some (its the American platform as distinct from DVB-T used here).

Like radio stations TV stations do use sound processing gear anyhow.

What the article above is discussing is why people tune out. The radio equivelant of the American Sound processing hardware you linked to above is the 8100, also made by Orban, but for FM. Analogue FM Radio stations used them since the early 80s sometimes with an XT2 add on. Settings on them give more vibrant or punchier output. The loudness wars of the 80s etc. Tests on how people tire of loud brash settings is well documented. These days you have many more manufacturers of processing gear like Omnia for example. they all claim not to tire the audiences through homogenised settings.

However, even Bob Orban cant make the makers of commercials tone down the content of their punchy adverts - shouted content designed to grab your attention by repititive mantras with loads of pre-processing cannot be undone regardless of the processing used (eg Apache Pizzas advert at present).

What is an impractical solution for the home owner What I linked to was a solution for broadcasters.

You're confusing the issue by bringing in the radio loudness wars. There is no connection between that and the loudness of TV commercials. The loudness war was all about making all content on a station sound perceptively louder than other stations. The subject here is relating only to the adverts in comparison to program material. Surely you understand the difference.

Orban have always stressed the importance of considering listener fatigue when modifying user presets.

Your also confusing punchiness and loudness. Processing audio twice in the chain usually increases density and perceived loudness. If anything this makes it sound flatter, certainly not punchier.

It's not the pre-processing alone thats at fault. It's the combination of that and the transmitter processing. Once you understand that, it's easy to figure out that by reducing the gain into the 2nd processor will reduce the loudness effect.

STB

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

What is an impractical solution for the home owner What I linked to was a solution for broadcasters.

How did you test it ?

ATSC is an American broadcast platform.

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

You're confusing the issue by bringing in the radio loudness wars. There is no connection between that and the loudness of TV commercials. The loudness war was all about making all content on a station sound perceptively louder than other stations. The subject here is relating only to the adverts in comparison to program material. Surely you understand the difference.

Orban have always stressed the importance of considering listener fatigue when modifying user presets.

Your also confusing punchiness and loudness. Processing audio twice in the chain usually increases density and perceived loudness. If anything this makes it sound flatter, certainly not punchier.

It's not the pre-processing alone thats at fault. It's the combination of that and the transmitter processing. Once you understand that, it's easy to figure out that by reducing the gain into the 2nd processor will reduce the loudness effect.

I am not confusing radio deviation and processing with loudness consistency in TV using processing and badly designed adverts. You are. It is a huge issue is as no standard has been followed among stations. The ITU are devising proper guidelines for effective metering of DVB-T stations.

Read up on "Operational practices to improve the consistency of loudness in the international exchange of digital television programmes".

It will never solve Harvey Norman adverts though!

Fuzzy Clam

STB wrote: »

How did you test it ?

ATSC is an American broadcast platform.




I am not confusing radio deviation and processing with loudness consistency in TV using processing and badly designed adverts. You are. It is a huge issue is as no standard has been followed among stations. The ITU are devising proper guidelines for effective metering of DVB-T stations.

Read up on "Operational practices to improve the consistency of loudness in the international exchange of digital television programmes".

It will never solve Harvey Norman adverts though!

Ok. I can see how you were misled by my 1st comment. As I said, I tested an 8182 which is analogue, so it's easy to measure. The article is obviously refers to digital. Mea Culpa.:o
The issue of advert loudness is a different issue to what you described. The radio loudness war was not about deviation. Max deviation would, or should, have been observed. On TV it was about the difference in perceived difference between normal programming and the commercials.
The point i was making was the problem is an old one. It goes way back beyond DTV. Thats all.

Nothing can cure a Harvey Norman ad.

Fuzzy Clam

[QUOTE=STB;76159634



I am not confusing radio deviation and processing with loudness consistency in TV using processing and badly designed adverts. You are. It is a huge issue is as no standard has been followed among stations. The ITU are devising proper guidelines for effective metering of DVB-T stations.

Read up on "Operational practices to improve the consistency of loudness in the international exchange of digital television programmes".

[/QUOTE]
I would really like agree with you but honestly, you have absolutely no idea what your talking about. I've already explained the difference between radio and TV processing.

You use terms like "radio deviation". What the **** does that mean? Your cluless.