Floyd Mayweather Junior is there for the taking

gene_tunney

I'm going to get flack for this.

I love Floyd, and can honestly say there are very few fighters I enjoy watching more, but I'm going to go out on a limb here and say he's here for the taking. Watch the Ortiz fight, who may I remind you is a B level fighter at best.

1. His accuracy was pretty poor against a defensive nobody in Ortiz, notably only landing 3/21 jabs.
2. He fought very aggressively and forced the issue too much. This does not suit his style, he doesn't have the power and isn't a natural finisher. I think he was trying to get Ortiz out of there because he didn't trust his legs over the 12 rounds.
3. He went off balance consistently after throwing his right hand. This was pretty strange to see, again I think it's the legs.
4. He was getting hit more often than usual, and Ortiz is no sniper. His reflexes plainly aren't as quick as before, and this combined with his poor footwork which caused him to be caught on the ropes more, meant he was hit more.
5. The viper quickness is gone. He is not so fast to see the opening, and when he sees it the punch doesn't whip out like it used to. Natural result of ageing.

It's natural for a fighter who relies on speed to decline as he ages, and FMJ is no different.

I know nobody here will agree with this, but I stand by it. He's there for the taking by a tough pressure fighter or a high output boxer puncher. I think Pac would take him but that's not the point of his thread. A pime FMJ schools Pac, but not anymore IMO.

When I say he's there for the taking, it still means 99% of guys in the division have no chance and he would dispatch them with ease. But he's on the way out, and someone needs to capitalise.

walshb

I am confused. You see the Ortiz fight one way, and our good friend, cowzwerp sees it another way, describing Floyd as deadly in that fight.

Well, I didn't see any dominace from either man. Ortiz was more than coping and holding his own.

I think at peak Floyd is a sensation, but I have not been overly impressed with him lately, and the opposition wasn't anything.

gene_tunney

Floyd beat Ortiz with relative ease, but there were chinks in the armour that I never saw before.

walshb

gene_tunney wrote: »

Floyd beat Ortiz with relative ease, but there were chinks in the armour that I never saw before.

In the 3.5 rds you saw was Floyd dominating Ortiz?

gene_tunney

walshb wrote: »

In the 3.5 rds you saw was Floyd dominating Ortiz?

Floyd was winning the rounds handily, but I wouldn't use the word "dominating". He was getting caught with more shots than usual, and was pinned on the ropes a few times. His power wasn't sufficient to keep Ortiz off him, which is fairly standard for Floyd, but this time he wasn't dancing away as effectively.

He was also trying to be the aggressor at times, which didn't suit him at all.

cowzerp

walshb wrote: »

In the 3.5 rds you saw was Floyd dominating Ortiz?

Ortiz headbutting him because he could not land a clean blow would suggest he was been dominated, Floyd was in 2nd gear and was toying with him.

moneyman

cowzerp wrote: »

Ortiz headbutting him because he could not land a clean blow would suggest he was been dominated, Floyd was in 2nd gear and was toying with him.

That is the reason you are attributing it to, nothing else. Doesn't mean that Floyd looked brilliant (he didn't, he was winning the fight but Ortiz got through a couple times and Floyd was off balance a few times, strange to see as has been pointed out).

Your claim that Floyd was in 2nd gear is also bizarre. Why would he be in 2nd gear if he was as brilliant as you say? I'd suggest the illusion that he wasn't in first gear is simply that he is not as good as he once was.

Floyd is still the best, not doubting that. But he's clearly not at his peak, which is again understandable. It will take a great fighter to beat Floyd, and one that knows what they're doing, but it can be done at this stage of his career.

walshb

Well, I decided to rewatch the fight, and seriousl, where is this dominance, winning easily, and being in 2nd gear? Yes, Floyd I think was winning. Rd 1 was very close. Floyd did better in Rd 3 and 4. But, 3.5 rds of being "in control," not dominationg, is hardly amazing. And, Ortiz isn't all that good. He is definitely good. But, he seemed very tentative in that 3.5 rds.

ebbsy

While big money spinners I can see Floyd coasting by Khan or Pacman, its a totally different level he is fighting at.

cowzerp

2nd gear means he was having it easy and could have upped his game easily-He showed the difference in class by having it so easy while pretty much taking it handy-and the off balance talk is simple, he leads with the right much more than he used too, he does not get caught when he does this so I don't see a problem.

Scanlas The 2nd

You have to remember Floyd is a fairly slow starter. He learns how to defeat his opponent as the fight progresses and gets better throught the fight as he learns. Look at the early rounds of his fight against Hatton in 2007, Floyd wasn't so great there, but he learned and adapted and outclassed Hatton. Your only realistic chance to beat Floyd is to knock him out in the early rounds before he figures you out, because he will figure you out.

He's nearly 35, if he hasn't slowed down already he will in the next couple years, I'm sure many posters on here will only be delighted to see him suffering the aging process.

gene_tunney

moneyman wrote: »

That is the reason you are attributing it to, nothing else. Doesn't mean that Floyd looked brilliant (he didn't, he was winning the fight but Ortiz got through a couple times and Floyd was off balance a few times, strange to see as has been pointed out).

Your claim that Floyd was in 2nd gear is also bizarre. Why would he be in 2nd gear if he was as brilliant as you say? I'd suggest the illusion that he wasn't in first gear is simply that he is not as good as he once was.

Floyd is still the best, not doubting that. But he's clearly not at his peak, which is again understandable. It will take a great fighter to beat Floyd, and one that knows what they're doing, but it can be done at this stage of his career.

When I saw your username I was expecting a torrent of abuse - glad to see a balanced reply!

On a more general, unrelated note, I think Floyd has always been a better boxer than Pacquiao for the reason he can beat more styles than Pac, and so his position as P4P number 1 was justified. I think if one fighter beats another, it doesn't mean he is a better fighter, it just means he has the style to beat him. Sandy Saddler beat Willie Pep 3/4 times, but overall wasn't fit to hold his jockstrap. So if Pac were to beat Floyd, it wouldn't necessarily make him P4P no. 1.

walshb

gene_tunney wrote: »

just means he has the style to beat him. Sandy Saddler beat Willie Pep 3/4 times, but overall wasn't fit to hold his jockstrap. So if Pac were to beat Floyd, it wouldn't necessarily make him P4P no. 1.

What? How come?

walshb

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

You have to remember Floyd is a fairly slow starter. He learns how to defeat his opponent as the fight progresses and gets better throught the fight as he learns. Look at the early rounds of his fight against Hatton in 2007, Floyd wasn't so great there, but he learned and adapted and outclassed Hatton. Your only realistic chance to beat Floyd is to knock him out in the early rounds before he figures you out, because he will figure you out.

He's nearly 35, if he hasn't slowed down already he will in the next couple years, I'm sure many posters on here will only be delighted to see him suffering the aging process.

I disagree. He does figure opponents out, but that doesn't mean he will figure Manny out. He didn't figure Jose Luis Castillo out.

dlofnep

I think Floyd is past his prime, but not over the hill so to speak. He still has 3 or 4 good fights left in him. I think think he beats Pacman, and I can't see any of the current welter-weights beating him - but I think his best days are behind him, and it was noticeable in his last fight.

minty16

Pac Man is no spring chicken. His performance against JMM was a far more deteriorated performance than any of Floyds! He as good as lost ffs ha. PBF is 34 nearly 35 years old it doesn't even need to be analysed, of course he is not at his prime, but he hasn't just lost a fight. I am clearer than ever before that he beats Pac Man, and I cant see any up and coming fighters that are going to beat him because he's going to fight a maximum of 3 , probably only twice more before he retires once and for all, as one of the greatest too.

walshb

I think Manny gives him real issues.

minty16

walsh, of course Manny is going to give him 'issues'. It would be ridiculous to say that a fighter of Pac Mans ability is not going to cause 'issues' to anyone. Beating him, or at least being the favourite to beat him is a different matter.

walshb

minty16 wrote: »

walsh, of course Manny is going to give him 'issues'. It would be ridiculous to say that a fighter of Pac Mans ability is not going to cause 'issues' to anyone. Beating him, or at least being the favourite to beat him is a different matter.

I meant real in the sense that I would place it 50/50. Too many seem to think Floyd will win handily

minty16

walshb wrote: »

I meant real in the sense that I would place it 50/50. Too many seem to think Floyd will win handily

Not in the bookies eyes. Before the JMM fight Pac Man was actually the clear favourite with most bookmakers. Around 18 months ago Pac was a 1/2 shot . Now its priced at Floyd 4/7 and Manny 5/4. 5/4 doesnt interest me on Pac Man. I'd personally say he should be a bit bigger still.

horsemeat

walshb wrote: »

I disagree. He does figure opponents out, but that doesn't mean he will figure Manny out. He didn't figure Jose Luis Castillo out.

what do you mean? he schooled castillo in the second fight

walshb

horsemeat wrote: »

what do you mean? he schooled castillo in the second fight

I will have to rewatch the second bout. Anyway, bout 1 he didn't look all that comfortable. I scored it to JLC, close, but think he got that.

Anyway, he is a great fighter. But, still believe a focused Manny will give him hell. Toss up for me.

minty16

walshb wrote: »

I will have to rewatch the second bout. Anyway, bout 1 he didn't look all that comfortable. I scored it to JLC, close, but think he got that.

Anyway, he is a great fighter. But, still believe a focused Manny will give him hell. Toss up for me.

I remember the first one was close, I gave it to Pretty Boy. Second bout easier. On first watch I actually gave Oscar the fight by one round against Floyd and second two times scored it a draw. This fight aint gonna happen. If I had to put my money on anything Id put it on the fight never happening!

Spudman_20000

Go back and watch round 4 of the Ortiz fight. Mayweather was landing his straight right hand at will. Hence the headbutt out of sheer fustration from Ortiz.

He dominated Marquez while Manny lost that 3rd bout no matter what anyone says. I can see Flyod taking the Pacman to school, pop shotting him all night with the straight right hand.

Like almost every boxing fan in the world, I'd love to see Mayweather put to the test, but I don't see anyone in the current crop giving him much trouble.

walshb

minty16 wrote: »

I remember the first one was close, I gave it to Pretty Boy. Second bout easier. On first watch I actually gave Oscar the fight by one round against Floyd and second two times scored it a draw. This fight aint gonna happen. If I had to put my money on anything Id put it on the fight never happening!

I am with you on the Oscar fight. We are in the minority on that. Never really figured out Oscar that night.

walshb

Spudman_20000 wrote: »

Go back and watch round 4 of the Ortiz fight. Mayweather was landing his straight right hand at will. Hence the headbutt out of sheer fustration from Ortiz.

He dominated Marquez while Manny lost that 3rd bout no matter what anyone says. I can see Flyod taking the Pacman to school, pop shotting him all night with the straight right hand.

Like almost every boxing fan in the world, I'd love to see Mayweather put to the test, but I don't see anyone in the current crop giving him much trouble.

Yes, Mayweather was beating Ortiz, never said he was not, but the premature end meant we will never know how it would have went.

headmaster

Pacman, will/would trounce Mayweather. Who fought who, doesn't really matter, styles suit one boxer, don't suit another. Mayweather suits Pacman, he's made for him. All in all, even though the 2 of them are close to calling it a day, neither owes anyone anything, the Pacman will/would have an easy night, but will more than likely teach him a lesson as well.

Spudman_20000

headmaster wrote: »

Pacman, will/would trounce Mayweather. Who fought who, doesn't really matter, styles suit one boxer, don't suit another. Mayweather suits Pacman, he's made for him. All in all, even though the 2 of them are close to calling it a day, neither owes anyone anything, the Pacman will/would have an easy night, but will more than likely teach him a lesson as well.

So you're telling me one of the greatest counterpunchers in the history of the sport's style will suit Manny, who has struggled 3 times with Juan Manuel Marquez (another great counter punching artist)? Really?

Shane Mosley showed the blueprint on how to avoid Manny's punches by continually moving to Manny's right. Alas, Mosley hadn't the heart or skills to exploit this but Marquez beat Pacman with the same approach in their last fight.

I'm afraid all Manny would have is an outside punchers chance against Money at best, otherwise it would be a UD12 decision for Mayweather.

headmaster

The spuds have clouded the old brain. I doubt there's too many trophies on your sideboard

moneyman

gene_tunney wrote: »

When I saw your username I was expecting a torrent of abuse - glad to see a balanced reply!

On a more general, unrelated note, I think Floyd has always been a better boxer than Pacquiao for the reason he can beat more styles than Pac, and so his position as P4P number 1 was justified. I think if one fighter beats another, it doesn't mean he is a better fighter, it just means he has the style to beat him. Sandy Saddler beat Willie Pep 3/4 times, but overall wasn't fit to hold his jockstrap. So if Pac were to beat Floyd, it wouldn't necessarily make him P4P no. 1.

:eek: Why?! I'm more than fair to Floyd. He's obviously a great. I only get annoyed at a certain someone who only pokes his head in when Floyd is fighting or is being discussed, literally doesn't watch any boxing apart from that and expects people to take his opinion seriously! In fact, I'm surprised he's not here yet.


Right now I have Floyd beating Pacquiao if it were to happen. Manny hasn't done enough in his last two fights to make me think he's favourite. I definitely give him a shot, but only if he pressures Floyd from the very start with combinations, he has no chance if he tries to pick shots and outbox him (which he tried to do against Mosley and JMM).

megadodge

I have always maintained Floyd would beat Manny (but God I'd love to be proved wrong), but I have to agree with the OP here in feeling that Mayweather is definitely past his best.

I really wasn't impressed with him against Ortiz, his normal accuracy, speed and balance just weren't as sharp as I've come to expect.

While age obviously has to kick in I'm just wondering if it could have anything to do with southpaws??

PS. Anyone who thought Floyd won the first Castillo fight is nuts! Castillo by 4. Floyd definitely won the second but was not impressive.