When is it ok to be happy that someone died?

Kold

I was just reading an old Charlie Brooker article and he was talking about Jade Goody. It took a second to click but then I remembered who she was and that she died not so long after in a media farce. "Oh yeah, she died.... *chuckle*.... good." Now I don't feel bad about that last sentiment. It's not a hateful vibe... more of a "her existence irked me and I'm totally ok with her not existing anymore."

Now immediately I thought of how I have friends that would have no problem with me saying that but enjoy it as a tasteless joke and that there would other people that would find offence to it and it would taint their idea of me. They'd think that I was amoral which I would certainly claim that I am not.

Now lets zoom back a few months to the deaths of Osama Bin Laden. Now I didn't support this man's ideals in any sense but I still found the worldwide backpatting somewhat tasteless. People partying in the streets and such. This may sound hypocritical but come on, this man's death was not worth the rampage that the US went on in order to find him. I think it's good that he died but say, I also think it would be good if Bush died. Doubt I'd go celebrating on the streets though, it just doesn't influence my life that greatly. I just hated the way I was being goaded into feeling good that this one person that died when so often, you're told that you're being a bad person for being glad that someone else is dead.

I don't know if I'm getting my point across great but the question is clear enough. I'd imagine it's one of those things highly influenced by religious viewpoints.

hefferboi

Your happy Jade Goody is dead but not Osama Bin Laden? Creep.

Kold

hefferboi wrote: »

Your happy Jade Goody is dead but not Osama Bin Laden? Creep.

I had no problem with his death at all. I felt Jade Goody's existence had more bearing on my own though.

The Internet Explorer

It is ok to be happy when someone has died when...


- They have been suffering in illness.

- They have had a long life.


Obviously that's only two, and there are probably quite a few more, but I wouldn't be bothered getting too deep at the minute.

Posy

Personally, I can't imagine ever being happy that a young woman in her twenties with two little boys has died of cancer, to be honest.

Ickle Magoo

Much as I don't understand the point of celebrating the death of someone who has done no great ills to the world bar annoy someone who has equal insignificance and probably is equally as annoying to someone else - I'm not sure why it wouldn't be ok to be happy about someone dying. There are clearly some people that society or humanity feels is less of a loss to the planet than others, where that arbitrary line is drawn is fairly subjective - and that's before you get into those who want to die or who were suffering.

It's less about it being ok and really a question of social etiquette and knowing when/if it is safe to vocalise your joy publicly without fear of backlash from those who either don't share in your glee, find the idea of celebrating death in general distasteful or just object to the rationale behind your happiness...and the answer to that is you'll never know - unless you know your audience very, very well.

MyKeyG

I try hard not to be affected by the death of a celebrity since people die every day and I don't think celebrity status should define the tragedy. In general I've felt remorseless over deaths ranging from Osama Bin Laden to my own Grandmother. All for personal reasons.

theg81der

Never! Everybody justifies their behaviour to themselves and sure they do terrible things but you don`t get to see the events that lead them to that awful behaviour. I don`t believe anyone is born bad.

Don`t get me wrong hurt anyone I love and you better not be left alone in a room with me and a weapon I`m not that much of a doo gooder type but a normal mentally stable person doesn`t just go - i think i`m going to hurt someone/lots of people today.

CDfm

Was the world a better place for Jade Goody's death, of course not, she left a family who missed her and probably still will this Xmas.

Should I be sad, not really as she was irrelevant to my life as the Smiths were. Happy that she died. Why ?

Of course, her death from breast cancer was far too soon but she did get my respect for her money making and the provision she made for her kids at the end of her ladette life.

Bin Laden on the other hand was not irrelevant. He killed people and almost started World War 3.

His killing had revenge and retribution all over it and there was a need to incapacitate him in a political sense and a military sense.

I was ambivalent to his death and understood it and did not disagree with it. Did I respect him. No.

I did not understand the grief in Ireland at Princess Diana's untimely death who also owed her status to her celebrity. I can't help thinking that Jade Goody's value system was to put the security of her family first over her own and showed remarkable dignity at the end .

Jade Goody might have irked Charlie Brooker but maybe that reflects more about him being a journalist and reporter than his humanity. It reflects the importance that he would have given her as a story. That's the awkward bit, we would not have been interested in Dental Nurse Goody.

Kold

Posy wrote: »

Personally, I can't imagine ever being happy that a young woman in her twenties with two little boys has died of cancer, to be honest.

Does motherhood increase someone's empathetic worth?

Posy

Posy wrote: »

Personally, I can't imagine ever being happy that a young woman in her twenties with two little boys has died of cancer, to be honest.

+1

Kold wrote: »

Does motherhood increase someone's empathetic worth?

She had two little boys relying on her who will be without their mother for the rest of their lives. Why would you not feel empathy for them?

Kold

Johnathan Slimy Seeker wrote: »

She had two little boys relying on her who will be without their mother for the rest of their lives. Why would you not feel empathy for them?

Because they still come out with a quality of life probably in or around the top percentile. There is empathy but put in perspective, it's not so bad really.

CDfm

Kold wrote: »

Because they still come out with a quality of life probably in or around the top percentile. There is empathy but put in perspective, it's not so bad really.

People often say a bad parent is better than no parent at all as a parent has a different emotional investment in their child.

So professionally , you may not approve of her but as a parent she had qualities which you may or may not admire.

Should her death upset you or should you feel guilty about your lack of feeling , I don't think so. That is probably the point Charlie Brooker makes & which centers around the soundbites and outpouring of public grief for ordinary events.

If anything, the manner of Ms Goody's death was that she had ignored correspondence from the health service concerning cervical cancer screening and young women of her age.

That was the real story.

Victor

I think when it brings suffering to an end, there can be a modicum of happiness, whether that is an ill person who is no longer in pain or Hitler (yes I did), which helped bring WWII to an end.

Amy Winehouse - not a surprise, I would have preferred she not do substance abuse, nor profited from substance abuse. I do not mourn her.

Osama Bin Laden - the timing was a moderate surprise. He got many people killed. I do not mourn him.

Jade Goody - profited from being an obnoxious person. I do not mourn her.

The Internet Explorer wrote: »

It is ok to be happy when someone has died when...

- They have been suffering in illness.

Not so much happy that they dies, but happy that the pain is over.

The Internet Explorer wrote: »

- They have had a long life.

Again, surely happy that they lived a long life, not that they died.

whydoibother?

The Internet Explorer wrote: »

It is ok to be happy when someone has died when...


- They have been suffering in illness.

- They have had a long life.


Obviously that's only two, and there are probably quite a few more, but I wouldn't be bothered getting too deep at the minute.

Those are exactly the two I was going to post. When the person was suffering seriously, the fact that that suffering has come to an end for them is a small positive in what is still a sad event.

I've also attended a funeral of someone who lived an extremely long, happy, healthy life and it really was more like a celebration with all the retelling of happy stories.

Victor

Kold wrote: »

Now lets zoom back a few months to the deaths of Osama Bin Laden. Now I didn't support this man's ideals in any sense but I still found the worldwide backpatting somewhat tasteless. People partying in the streets and such. This may sound hypocritical but come on, this man's death was not worth the rampage that the US went on in order to find him.

I was thinking about this afterwards and the niggling feeling that it may have caused more deaths in the immediate aftermath of such a death should temper any such celebration.

CDfm

Victor wrote: »

I was thinking about this afterwards and the niggling feeling that it may have caused more deaths in the immediate aftermath of such a death should temper any such celebration.

Bin Laden made heavy use of the media to taunt the Americans and get support for his organisation.

I think his death made people relieved and safer as opposed to happy plus the revenge thing for the relatives of his victims. There was a certain amount of containment about it and celebration is probably the wrong word unless it is in terms of victory celebration .

The Princess Bride

The Internet Explorer wrote: »

It is ok to be happy when someone has died when...

- They have been suffering in illness.

I feel that "happy" is the wrong word to use here and throughout this thread.
I work in Palliative care ,and the emotion I see again and again with families who've just lost a loved one is relief.Relief that it's over for them.

If they were selfish,they would want for their relative to have lived to be with them, but at the end of the day,no-one wants the agony( or lack of quality of life/living) to continue.
Remember,sometimes we may be talking weeks/months and even years of pain & suffering( or something as simple as not being able to live your life the way you want).


And when someone has died after a long life,I guess that should be celebrated,but it would only be natural for family and friends to be sad- and grateful,perhaps,for the person to have had such a long life.

Kold wrote: »

Because they still come out with a quality of life probably in or around the top percentile. There is empathy but put in perspective, it's not so bad really.

Some things are irreplaceable- for a child to grow up without a parent, having known and been loved by this parent?
Nothing can replace this.

As for bin Laden etc....,again happy might not be the word I'd use.
Not particularly bothered would be how I'd feel .

Stinicker

I was quite delighted when I heard Brian Lenihan was dead, another Fianna Fail scumbag got his commupance and I have no regrets at taking delight at hearing of his death. Same goes for all members of the former cabinet that committed treason and made my future alot worse when I had such high hopes for myself and the country. Scum like him deserve to be dead.

Thatcher and Bertie Ahern will be two others I will not mourn also.

The Princess Bride

Well Stinicker, if I die tomorrow,I'd imagine you and everyone else here on boards.ie won't lose any sleep.Why would ye?
My friends and family would be sad though.

Same with Brian Lenihan- to his wife he was a husband first, to his children a dad- doubt that the political agenda was even remotely on their minds during his illness or death.
And why would it?

P. Breathnach

I don't have strong reactions to the deaths of people with whom I don't have some personal connection, and I am somewhat disturbed by the reactions of many people to the deaths of celebrities.

When I hear of the death of a public figure - be it politician, sports star, entertainer, writer, whatever - I often have a sense of mild regret. That applies particularly if I value that person's contributions to our society.

There are some deaths at which I feel no sadness or regret. But if ever I got to the point of rejoicing in somebody's death, I would have lost much of what makes me feel okay about myself.

Stinicker

msthe80s wrote: »

Well Stinicker, if I die tomorrow,I'd imagine you and everyone else here on boards.ie won't lose any sleep.Why would ye?
My friends and family would be sad though.

Same with Brian Lenihan- to his wife he was a husband first, to his children a dad- doubt that the political agenda was even remotely on their minds during his illness or death.
And why would it?

Adolf Hitler had a girlfriend and family too, however because of the atrocities he committed people were very happy when he was dead. Lenihan may not have sent people to the gas chamber but he and his Fianna Fail scum cronies have condemned this country to decades of poverty and broken up families sending loved ones who should have bright futures here to the far flung corners of the earth to meek out a survival just as happened for centuries when we were dictated from London.

Hundreds of peoples commit suicide here each year out of lack of hope and because of how bad their plight is and because of having a bleak future ahead of them. These people take their own lives however their death warrants were signed by scum like Lenihan when he and his gutter scum party choose to betray the Irish people, our Independence and sovereignty to bailout the super elite rich, banksters and fraudsters within the Fianna Fail circle.

A man here danced up on that other great traitor Haughey's grave and I feel exactly the same way about Lenihan. Death does not absolve you from sin and if a person led a bad life then they should be remembered that way in death. Lenihan was a lowlife tramp and yes I am sure his family was saddened at his death but I for certain was not because I cannot forget what he and his type did to my generation and to our collective society and country.

jonniebgood1

Stinicker wrote: »

I was quite delighted when I heard Brian Lenihan was dead, another Fianna Fail scumbag got his commupance and I have no regrets at taking delight at hearing of his death. Same goes for all members of the former cabinet that committed treason and made my future alot worse when I had such high hopes for myself and the country. Scum like him deserve to be dead.

Thatcher and Bertie Ahern will be two others I will not mourn also.

How long did your 'delight' at Brian Lenihans death last?

If you were to meet Brian Lenihans widow or children would you take pleasure in their loss or would you console them?

Do you believe that everyone who makes a mistake deserves to die? I would be interested in where you would draw the line in this death dependent on mistakes.

CDfm

I met Brian Lenihan shortly before he died. A friend of mine's Dad died and he was at the funeral with his son.

We live in a democracy and I don't think we shoot our politicians we vote them out.

And there are a few politicians I would dearly love to

exile to the Blasket Island with a copy of Peig as a survival manual

Focalbhach

Kold wrote: »

"Oh yeah, she died.... *chuckle*.... good." Now I don't feel bad about that last sentiment. It's not a hateful vibe... more of a "her existence irked me and I'm totally ok with her not existing anymore."

I really find it hard to imagine being happy that a minor 'celebrity', albeit an irritating and self-promoting one, had died.

I'm wondering: would it be fair to rephrase your statement above as being happy that you no longer had to hear about her, rather than being happy that she was dead?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Stinicker

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Lock the thread so because this is the topic that was being discussed.

CDfm

Stinicker wrote: »

Lock the thread so because this is the topic that was being discussed.

In the context of the thread, and I am open to correction , Charlie Brooker's comments referred to the newsworthiness of the story as opposed to the death of the individual. This is a subtle but important difference in that as a media commentator he did not feel it warranted the media space it received.

AstridBean

I have a relation who is a truly awful person. A dead-eyed, morally bereft waste of space. Has caused grief for many, many people through out his life, has stolen from people, treated his families, supposed friends and ex-girlfriends like excrement and would do it all again with a smile on his face. Screwing people over gives him a kick.

When I hear of his passing, an unashamed smile will spread across my face. Hell, I might even laugh joyously. I don't feel in any way bad about this. There appears to be a taboo around admitting you don't feel sad at someone's passing, but I reckon more people experience it than will let on. It's an interesting subject.

CDfm

An aside on taking pleasure from the death of others is profiting from the death of others.

I used to work in insurance and insurable interest owed its origans to the Wagers Acts which prevented people placing bets on the lives of the English Kings in case it induced people to assasinate the king to win a bet.

That's why you can't bet on peoples lives and can only insure another persons life if their death would cause you a real financial loss.