New Golf Coach

titleist91

Alright here is the story.

2010 I was playing off scratch and playing all of the Gui events having never got a formal lesson bit of coaching here and there was about it. I went to get lessons with the aim to try get myself into contention in the main championships. Since I started the lessons I have disimproved a lot and am currently playing off 4 and can't get into anything which is frustrating.

Just wondering if people think I should switch coach already or if I am being impatient. The coach I go to is considered the best around but I just dont seem to be shooting the scores. Anyways has anybody got any suggestions to a good coach to switch to who is good with low handicapers.

Cheers

gorfield

titleist91 wrote: »

Alright here is the story.

2010 I was playing off scratch and playing all of the Gui events having never got a formal lesson bit of coaching here and there was about it. I went to get lessons with the aim to try get myself into contention in the main championships. Since I started the lessons I have disimproved a lot and am currently playing off 4 and can't get into anything which is frustrating.

Just wondering if people think I should switch coach already or if I am being impatient. The coach I go to is considered the best around but I just dont seem to be shooting the scores. Anyways has anybody got any suggestions to a good coach to switch to who is good with low handicapers.

Cheers

How did you manage to go from scr to 4 in less than 2 years??? Theres a max of 2 shots per calendar year...

titleist91

I went from scratch midway through the year to 2. So ended 2010 off 2 after I got these lessons. Then I went back to the same guy that winter and went up another 2 shots to 3.5 at the end of this year. So over the two seasons Ive got the shots back. 2010 iplayed all the championships bar the West and Irish amateur open.

golfnut1

titleist91 wrote: »

I went from scratch midway through the year to 2. So ended 2010 off 2 after I got these lessons. Then I went back to the same guy that winter and went up another 2 shots to 3.5 at the end of this year. So over the two seasons Ive got the shots back. 2010 iplayed all the championships bar the West and Irish amateur open.

I think you already know what the best thing to do is. Those results are not good and you have given the guy best part of 2 years. I'd be dropping him like a hot spuds.
He may be very good but things are not working for you with him

k.p.h

Do you want to tell us a bit more about what ye were working on, is it a case of its not working or is it that you have not had enough time to acclimatize to changes etc. You sound like you were a very natural player to begin with, have things become more technical etc, do ye use video analysis, what age is this teaching pro old school/new style ..?

golfnut could be right TBH but it would be interesting to hear about how things are playing at your level, fine margins etc,

As you probably know coaching methods and the swing theory/type thought could have a bit influence.

titleist91

k.p.h wrote: »

Do you want to tell us a bit more about what ye were working on, is it a case of its not working or is it that you have not had enough time to acclimatize to changes etc. You sound like you were a very natural player to begin with, have things become more technical etc, do ye use video analysis, what age is this teaching pro old school/new style ..?

golfnut could be right TBH but it would be interesting to hear about how things are playing at your level, fine margins etc,

As you probably know coaching methods and the swing theory/type thought could have a bit influence.

The guy is a modern enough coach but keeps things rather simple. Working on flattening out the swing plane as I was too steep before. Also working on trying to square the clubface at the top of the swing as I had played with a shut clubface before which has helped with the flight a little. The swing to be fair is a lot more pleasing to the eye but not nearly as effective. This is why I am unsure at the moment as I could be getting close to some good stuff. We do a little bit of video analysis but not that often but he does have me swing in a mirror at home to make sure im doing what im supposed to.

golfnut1

titleist91 wrote: »

k.p.h wrote: »

Do you want to tell us a bit more about what ye were working on, is it a case of its not working or is it that you have not had enough time to acclimatize to changes etc. You sound like you were a very natural player to begin with, have things become more technical etc, do ye use video analysis, what age is this teaching pro old school/new style ..?

golfnut could be right TBH but it would be interesting to hear about how things are playing at your level, fine margins etc,

As you probably know coaching methods and the swing theory/type thought could have a bit influence.

The guy is a modern enough coach but keeps things rather simple. Working on flattening out the swing plane as I was too steep before. Also working on trying to square the clubface at the top of the swing as I had played with a shut clubface before which has helped with the flight a little. The swing to be fair is a lot more pleasing to the eye but not nearly as effective. This is why I am unsure at the moment as I could be getting close to some good stuff. We do a little bit of video analysis but not that often but he does have me swing in a mirror at home to make sure im doing what im supposed to.

You only have a limit time to play at your peak performance. 2 years going up, if everything clicked into place now you could be looking at 2 more years to get back to where you were.
Regarding what the swing looks like....two words Jim furyk. His coach had the good sence not to mess with something that worked very well.
Imo this guy has brought you down the wrong road for you. If you though you were just going through the process and on the verge of greatness you would know to stay the course.

whatawaster

Maybe you've been neglecting your short game.

titleist91

whatawaster wrote: »

Maybe you've been neglecting your short game.

I practice the short game the same ammount as I used to usually 70% short game 30% long game. The problem is the inconsistency with the driver mainly the misses are huge tbh. Was always a very good driver of the ball and would hit 70% of fairways and now it is about 50% but the misses cost me double bogeys cause they dont stay in play. This is the reason I am thinking of just changing as every time I go to him he says its a mental thing but there has to be more and it almost feels as if he is avoiding the problem.

Russman

As someone else said, I think you know the answer yourself already.
We generally all get a little worse with a swing change before it beds in, but you should defintitely see some improvement in 2 years.

I went to a really well known teacher for 12 months back in about 2005 when I was off 3 and ended up hardly able to play at all, it only struck me when I was playing golf with a pro friend of mine one time and he simply asked me "what the f--k are you trying to do ?" that I needed to stop the lessons with this guy.

Whilst its obviously better to have good fundamentals, it doesn't really matter whether you are in the "correct" positions during the swing if the ball is going sideways.

Might be time to give another teacher a try, one that will work with "your" swing rather than try to build a textbook swing. Unless you're very young, we're generally stuck with the swing shape we have and find it very hard to make major changes after a certain age.

k.p.h

golfnut1 wrote: »

Jim furyk.

Yeah but he has the club square at the top, and pretty much throughout the whole swing.!

It's very hard to argue against getting the club square at the top and throughout the swing, if you take a look at the pros, sure some don't square it but they tend to be the guys that go hot and cold etc. Where you are looking to go with your swing e.g top competitions , having an action that requires as little manipulation and timing is a huge element. Especially as playing under pressure is a huge prerequisite to being successful at that level.

TBH flattening the swing and getting square at the top sounds extreemly reasonable, and as you said he is regarded as a good coach so is probably well beyond questioning on here.

Maybe his teaching methods don't exactly suit , without a doubt communication and interpretation are very important with both you and him.?

Or maybe he just dose not know what exactly you need to do to get it functioning properly either ..? Can happen too I suppose .

golfnut1

titleist91 wrote: »

whatawaster wrote: »

Maybe you've been neglecting your short game.

I practice the short game the same ammount as I used to usually 70% short game 30% long game. The problem is the inconsistency with the driver mainly the misses are huge tbh. Was always a very good driver of the ball and would hit 70% of fairways and now it is about 50% but the misses cost me double bogeys cause they dont stay in play. This is the reason I am thinking of just changing as every time I go to him he says its a mental thing but there has to be more and it almost feels as if he is avoiding the problem.

Even if it was a mental thing firstly you didn't have it before you started working with this guy secondly if he was any good and thought you had a mental problem he should be recommending good reading material and giving you good positive thoughts absolutely nothing negative.
Golf is a game of confidence and at your level of the game your coach needs to be as good on the mental side as he is on the mechanical side of it.

titleist91

Russman wrote: »

As someone else said, I think you know the answer yourself already.
We generally all get a little worse with a swing change before it beds in, but you should defintitely see some improvement in 2 years.

I went to a really well known teacher for 12 months back in about 2005 when I was off 3 and ended up hardly able to play at all, it only struck me when I was playing golf with a pro friend of mine one time and he simply asked me "what the f--k are you trying to do ?" that I needed to stop the lessons with this guy.

Whilst its obviously better to have good fundamentals, it doesn't really matter whether you are in the "correct" positions during the swing if the ball is going sideways.

Might be time to give another teacher a try, one that will work with "your" swing rather than try to build a textbook swing. Unless you're very young, we're generally stuck with the swing shape we have and find it very hard to make major changes after a certain age.

Im only 19 so amn't exactly old. But I agree with you before I used to play with no thoughts what so ever but know when I hit a bad shot I analyse it all the way to the ball if I can find it that is. The thing was though I thought I had come as far as I could without making changes as I was one dimensional tbh. I think I will make a change in coach but need some suggestions I have some ideas but want to get someone good as I dont want to waste another 2 years although I would say I have got a bit from it.

f22

Where are you based?

titleist91

f22 wrote: »

Where are you based?

Portmarnock but I am willing to travel about and hour or so if it is worth it.

f22

Same as myself. I can personally recommend John Kelly in St Margarets and know a few good players who rate him.

golfnut1

k.p.h wrote: »

golfnut1 wrote: »

Jim furyk.

Yeah but he has the club square at the top, and pretty much throughout the whole swing.!

It's very hard to argue against getting the club square at the top and throughout the swing, if you take a look at the pros, sure some don't square it but they tend to be the guys that go hot and cold etc. Where you are looking to go with your swing e.g top competitions , having an action that requires as little manipulation and timing is a huge element. Especially as playing under pressure is a huge prerequisite to being successful at that level.

TBH flattening the swing and getting square at the top sounds extreemly reasonable, and as you said he is regarded as a good coach so is probably well beyond questioning on here.

Maybe his teaching methods don't exactly suit , without a doubt communication and interpretation are very important with both you and him.?

Or maybe he just dose not know what exactly you need to do to get it functioning properly either ..? Can happen too I suppose .

I was making the point about the look of the golf swing. The op said his swing was more pleasing on the eye. I don't think anyone would say Jim furyks swing is a great looking swing but It's good enough to win the FedEx cup.
Good fundamentals by all means but the old say if it ain't broken don't fix it apply's here.

Russman

titleist91 wrote: »

f22 wrote: »

Where are you based?

Portmarnock but I am willing to travel about and hour or so if it is worth it.

There's loads to choose from in the greater Dublin area. The best coach "for you" may or may not not be a high profile guy, it may well be your local pro. Sounds like you need someone old school who'll try clear your head of technical thoughts and simplify things by working with what you have.

golfnut1

Russman wrote: »

titleist91 wrote: »

f22 wrote: »

Where are you based?

Portmarnock but I am willing to travel about and hour or so if it is worth it.

There's loads to choose from in the greater Dublin area. The best coach "for you" may or may not not be a high profile guy, it may well be your local pro. Sounds like you need someone old school who'll try clear your head of technical thoughts and simplify things by working with what you have.

+1

Russman is spot on again!!

titleist91

f22 wrote: »

Same as myself. I can personally recommend John Kelly in St Margarets and know a few good players who rate him.

Your not the first one to mention that he is probably the most mentioned from people I have asked so far. Might give it a shot. How much are we talking though?. My current guy charges 60 an hour but I get a special rate as I have caddied for him before I got the lessons and he said he would sort me out.

mike12

I'd say contact a couple of pros and tell them your story see if any of them bite with a offer of a free lesson, a long term customer is great for them. Try a couple see what u think before u commit to a new pro.
Mike

f22

€70 an hour, From what you've mentioned he'd be right up your street to be honest. No bull****, not too technical and a sound guy.

http://www.johnkellygolf.com/mysitecaddy/site3/

titleist91

mike12 wrote: »

I'd say contact a couple of pros and tell them your story see if any of them bite with a offer of a free lesson, a long term customer is great for them. Try a couple see what u think before u commit to a new pro.
Mike

I agree with that but a lot of the time these guys have big ideas but cant implement them. Trust me Ive head my own club pro:). But if there was a pro will to do the free lesson thing it would prove they arent just in it for the cash and actually care about improvements to your game so ill defo keep that in mind.

golfone

Good points. Getting the club face square at the top does not necessarily mean it was an initial fault. You have to differentiate between what is a characteristic and a fault. Sounds like you need a pro that will work on ball-target. Read recently that Lowry doesn't work much on his swing mechanics with Neil Manchip. Maybe he is the type of coach you need. Would defo get a second opinion. Good luck!!!

titleist91

Cheers for the help lads gonna get a new coach as this has made my mind up for me just need to decide on a new one.:rolleyes:

PRAF

titleist91 wrote: »

Cheers for the help lads gonna get a new coach as this has made my mind up for me just need to decide on a new one.:rolleyes:

Best of luck with getting the right coach for you. Seems like it is time for a change alright. Can be difficult getting a coach who fits into your ideas of the game. Probably best to try a few different coaches before you commit to anything new.

I remember one guy I went to telling me he wanted to break down my swing and then build it up again, that I'd get worse before I got better etc. Another coach told me my fundamentals were good and I just needed to work on a few minor things. I played better after visiting the second guy!

Whyner

gorfield wrote: »

How did you manage to go from scr to 4 in less than 2 years??? Theres a max of 2 shots per calendar year...

Nice first thought, pity you didn't put your thinking cap on first :rolleyes:

titleist91

Whyner wrote: »

gorfield wrote: »

How did you manage to go from scr to 4 in less than 2 years??? Theres a max of 2 shots per calendar year...

Nice first thought, pity you didn't put your thinking cap on first :rolleyes:

Doesn't say much for the quality of maths in cork and on the Irish panels does it.

gorfield

titleist91 wrote: »

Doesn't say much for the quality of maths in cork and on the Irish panels does it.

Was merely asking a question as it didnt make sense to me, but judging by your lovely little attitude its clear now why you have gone from scratch to 4 in 2 years. No coach will teach you decorum, but my advice is work on your basics.

titleist91

gorfield wrote: »

Was merely asking a question as it didnt make sense to me, but judging by your lovely little attitude its clear now why you have gone from scratch to 4 in 2 years. No coach will teach you decorum, but my advice is work on your basics.

I have a pretty good attitude to be honest. What I said was meant as a joke not to be taken seriously at all but sorry if you took offense. As your on the Irish panel what do you think of Neil Manchip? Worth the cash?

gorfield

titleist91 wrote: »

I have a pretty good attitude to be honest. What I said was meant as a joke not to be taken seriously at all but sorry if you took offense. As your on the Irish panel what do you think of Neil Manchip? Worth the cash?

I go to Fred Twomey in cork, the munster coach and he is superb for what i work on.
Neil might be good if you dont want to get technical, he keeps things very simple,and is very knowledgeable on all aspects of the game, and considering you got to scratch without much coaching you clearly need to get back to basics. Neil might well be the guy to see.

titleist91

gorfield wrote: »

I go to Fred Twomey in cork, the munster coach and he is superb for what i work on.
Neil might be good if you dont want to get technical, he keeps things very simple,and is very knowledgeable on all aspects of the game, and considering you got to scratch without much coaching you clearly need to get back to basics. Neil might well be the guy to see.

Might give him a shot not too technical is what im looking for, as you said I need to get back to basics which got me to scratch. Cheers for the advice and hopefully I will be joining you at the championships next year at some stage.

Mizuno Man

John Kelly at St Maragarets all day long. I've lost 5 shots in the past year with him. Fantastic coach and a nice guy to boot. He plays actively and has been to Q school a few times too so you know you are going to someone who actually knows what is required to compete at a high level from being there and seeing it for himself. Uses high speed video on occassions too and is also a certified TPI coach so he is able to relate swing issues with physical limitations and vice versa.

Couldn't recommend him enough...