Neura Heatpump

kanoute696

Hi All, does anyone have a Neura heatpump?. Im have an issue with the control panel - I have the instruction manual but just not sure if I am programming it correctly. If the dial is at P1 or P2 etc , does it mean it is using that programme. How do I find out exactly what times that programme are set to?. also, how do I set the different target temperature for during the night and the during the day. any help is appreciated - Thank you

Oggie

Hi kanoute696,

Easy enough to set up. Just turn dial to menu. Go to programs. using up and down arrows select from p1,p2 or p3. press ok. p1 = program 1 etc.

with p1 flashing press enter, using up and down arrows select which program you want to edit or delete.

Basicly what you want to do is to have the heatpump come on during nightsaver hours, so 00:00 to 08:00. So set the desired temperature to something high like 21 deg at 00:00, and for it to turn off set the temp to 15 deg or so at 08:00.

It will ask you if you want to set it for every day this is the best option I think.

When you have p1 fully set up, all you have to do is turn the dial to p1 and the sytem will regulate itself from there.

Any problems let me know.

kanoute696

Hi, Thanks - I appreciate you spending the time replying!. I have the manual to the timer panel and here's where my problem is

A) I turn the dial down to "menu" (it also has P1, P2 and P3 etc )

I go to create a new temperature profile (is this correct) then pick mon-fri then it asks me for one time to set?. Then lower comfort?. Then end .
Shouldn’t it ask me for a start time and a finish time?

Should I just setting this dial to permanent comfort dial - and then programming the temperature (but then where does that time setting come into it when programming the temperature?)

I have attached the type I have just to see if it's similar with your one.

Thanks in advance, C.

Oggie

Hi kanoute696,

Looks like its the same as mine alright.

In answer to A, Yes you are on the right track. You have to set the start time first and then after it ends go into the menu and program in the finish time same day.
Then do this for everyday of the week.

I would pick every day instead of mon-fri, as I use a stove as an additional heat source on those days.

B. Permanent Comfort is basicly a call to the heatpump to work flat-out until you change it to a program. I would use this if the temperature was very low and needed to bring the temperature up to a good level. Once it has reached the temperature I like, I set the system to one of the programs so that nightsaver is used mainly.

Hope this helps, let me know and i'l talk you through it if not.

kanoute696

Hi,
so let me get this straight!...For one day...
I go to MENU\PROGRAM\NE\SINGLE DAY\pickday\ time (this would be the start time (02:00) \comfort\end
I go to MENU\PROGRAM\NE\SINGLE DAY\pickday\ time (this would be the finish time (08:00) \comfort\end
I go to MENU\PROGRAM\NE\SINGLE DAY\pickday\ time (this would be the start time (08:00) \lower\end
I go to MENU\PROGRAM\NE\SINGLE DAY\pickday\ time (this would be the finish time(02:00) \lower\end

It's just it doesnt ask me for a start time - just a time.. how does it figure out , what is my start and what is my end time?.
I'm not near it at the moemnt so its hard test!!..

Oggie

Hi there!

Ok so here we go, checked this last night.

Turn dial to menu. using up arrow select programs, press ok.

Select p1, p2 or p3 by using up arrow and pressing ok on desired program.
Next using up arrow select from new, clear or restore. I would suggest clear all to give yourself a new slate to start with.

This then brings you back to the first menu again. Select the program you have just cleared, except this time using the up arrow select new.

From new you will be asked to program for a single day, mon-fri or daily.
I would select daily and press ok.

Next display will be 00:00, this is the hour you wish program to start at.
Change this to 23:00 and press ok.

Next, select the temperature you need heatpump to aim at, approximately 21 deg or your highest temperature limit. select ok when happy.

This will bring you back to the new part again. select ok and now set you time to 08:00. press ok and select the lowest temperature available using the up/down arrow.

Press ok when you have this done and you have programmed your unit for the week.

So to recap your program will be. At 11pm units looks for a high temperature reading, and as house is lower turns on heatpump. Heatpump runs until at 8am unit looks for lower temperature reading and as house will be higher (hopefully) turns off heatpump.

Hope this is understandable!!

Long post sorry!!

kanoute696

Thank you!

Yes, I actually understand now! I appreciate the long post actually.. Im going to program it on saturday and see how it goes - am also testing the cost for the week.

Have tenants moving in - and they said they are going to use the open fire also.
Would you turn your manifold tap down for this room do you think?. I guess it doesnt matter as the temp will be set low.

Thank you fo rthe help by the way, I'll update on monday.

creedp

Oggie wrote: »

Next display will be 00:00, this is the hour you wish program to start at.
Change this to 23:00 and press ok.

Next, select the temperature you need heatpump to aim at, approximately 21 deg or your highest temperature limit. select ok when happy.

This will bring you back to the new part again. select ok and now set you time to 08:00. press ok and select the lowest temperature available using the up/down arrow.

Press ok when you have this done and you have programmed your unit for the week.

Can I just clarify .. Im assuming by referring to 11pm and 8am you consider that that the night time saver electricity operates between these times? I looked this up recently and I though that during winter - late October to late March - night saver rates apply between 11pm and 7am, whereas during Summertime, i.e. April to October (give or take) nighsaver rates apply between 12am and 8am. Am I mistaken here? I recently set up HP to come on predominantly between 11 pm and 7am on this basis but maybe I need to change this? On this issue I find that selecting a high temp at night (for me 22c) means the HP runs for up to 5 hourse at night and then maintaining 20c during the day hardly requires the HP to come on at all between the hours of 7am and 12am - during the recent very cold spell it only comes on for about an hour between 4 and 5pm and yet the thermostat still reads 20c at 12am. Useful from a cost perspective!

kanoute696

Well, I just spoke to Bord Gais (am getting the electricity off them)

Summertime night saver is 12pm to 9am
Wintertime night saver is 11pm to 8am

Summer starts on the 1st of May and Winter starts on the 31st Nov.

charges are
day rate 0.1686 cents per unit
night rate 0.0834 cents per unit
compulsory tariff 0.38.75 cents per day
and then vat at 13.5% on top of that


question is .. is there anyone cheaper!.

creedp

kanoute696 wrote: »

Well, I just spoke to Bord Gais (am getting the electricity off them)

Summertime night saver is 12pm to 9am
Wintertime night saver is 11pm to 8am

Summer starts on the 1st of May and Winter starts on the 31st Nov.

charges are
day rate 0.1686 cents per unit
night rate 0.0834 cents per unit
compulsory tariff 0.38.75 cents per day
and then vat at 13.5% on top of that


question is .. is there anyone cheaper!.

Thanks for info .. I will check again with Electric Ireland (ESB for those of a certain vintage!). At those rates I wil have to consider moving ..

creedp

Just checked the Electric Irl website and you are correct ... the same daytime/nightime rates apply. Don't know where I got the other information from!

By the way it would appear that EI and Bord Gais are broadly similar but Airtricity have significant discounts when you sign up for a 24 month contract - biggest discount in 1st year, lessor 2nd year and then back on std rates which are just slightly below that of EI at present. Have a loook at website. Must consider my options.

johnb25

creedp wrote: »

Just checked the Electric Irl website and you are correct ... the same daytime/nightime rates apply. Don't know where I got the other information from!

By the way it would appear that EI and Bord Gais are broadly similar but Airtricity have significant discounts when you sign up for a 24 month contract - biggest discount in 1st year, lessor 2nd year and then back on std rates which are just slightly below that of EI at present. Have a loook at website. Must consider my options.

Before switching to Airtricity have a search on here for the experiences of Airtricity customers. I was with them and found them very difficult to deal with. Their billing/account management seems to be very poor, but their collections department are then very aggressive in pursuing any billing shortfalls they have made.

creedp

johnb25 wrote: »

Before switching to Airtricity have a search on here for the experiences of Airtricity customers. I was with them and found them very difficult to deal with. Their billing/account management seems to be very poor, but their collections department are then very aggressive in pursuing any billing shortfalls they have made.

I had Airtricity in my previous house for both gas and electricity for about 2 years and didn't have any problems other than the hardsell of their reps at the front door! The combined electricity/gas bill appears complicated at first but you get used to it after a while. Now having said that I didn't have much cause to sample their customer services so I can't really comment on that side of things ..

kanoute696

So would anyone have the exact Eirtricity prices when you sgn up?. daytime and nightsaver?. and any extra charges?.

aido76

Rates for Airtricity for me are: Day Rate = 14.71c, Night Rate = 7.28c, Standing charge for 53 days = 52.89. I have 2 PSO levy on the last bill which were 273c and 161c. This may be due to a change in rates during the billing period. I only changed to Airtricity last Oct.

kilowhiskey

Hi,

I have the same heat pump and controller ( trs8 ) in the house I've just moved into. The builder didn't leave any information as to how to control it, so I contacted manufacturer Neura. They sent me a manual in PDF format for the controller types TRS11 and TRS8 ( mine) so if you would like a copy I can email it to you. I'd like to stay in contact with other users of the Neura HP systems as it's a very new system to me and so far I'm not sure it's working correctly (or I'm setting it up correctly).

johnb25

kilowhiskey wrote: »

I'd like to stay in contact with other users of the Neura HP systems as it's a very new system to me and so far I'm not sure it's working correctly (or I'm setting it up correctly).

If you cannot find the answer to your problems on previous posts on here, post a question and some of us with Neura HP will try to help.

kilowhiskey

johnb25 wrote: »

If you cannot find the answer to your problems on previous posts on here, post a question and some of us with Neura HP will try to help.

Thanks johnb25,

I have tried to set up a profile which basically tries to heat the house to 22C during the night from 23:00 to 07:00 then drops to lower level of 18C during the day, were the cycle is repeated. There is a lot of solar gain from the double glazed windows and a woodburner used in the evening and although the 18C is easily achieved by 23:00 the system can never get above about 19.5C during the night period. Even though the recent temperatures have been quite mild at night ( ~7C at lowest). Is there something wrong with the heat pump?I would have though that it could easily increase the temperature by 4c in the 8 hrs available. Is this profile possible with a 2200sq ft house, 2 years old and well insulated?.

johnb25

kilowhiskey wrote: »

Thanks johnb25,

I have tried to set up a profile which basically tries to heat the house to 22C during the night from 23:00 to 07:00 then drops to lower level of 18C during the day, were the cycle is repeated. There is a lot of solar gain from the double glazed windows and a woodburner used in the evening and although the 18C is easily achieved by 23:00 the system can never get above about 19.5C during the night period. Even though the recent temperatures have been quite mild at night ( ~7C at lowest). Is there something wrong with the heat pump?I would have though that it could easily increase the temperature by 4c in the 8 hrs available. Is this profile possible with a 2200sq ft house, 2 years old and well insulated?.

I have the same issue with my sytem, and is something that has frustrated me with it since the begining. I would be quite happy to be getting those kind of heat gains overnight. The consensus seems to be that you need exceptional insulation and airtightness, and also heat recovery ventilation to get the kind of performance you are expecting.
The standard level of insulation and ventilaiton does not appear to be sufficient to get the headline performance that geothermal promises. If we get the kind of cold weather we got during the last two winters you can also expect to get a fair bit of day time running to maintain the 18 degrees...I did.
I have also been told that geothermal is more efficient at maintaining temperatures within a narrow range than raising temperatures by several degrees in a short amount of time.
My profile is very similar to yours, with one change; I have an extra setting of 19 degrees at 9pm. The reason is that if temperatures are low it will kick in early, but the system only runs at 25Hz for the first 2-3 hours, so electricity consumption is not too high during the peak period. This maximises running at high speeds, and power consumption, during off-peak times.

kilowhiskey

johnb25 wrote: »

I have the same issue with my sytem, and is something that has frustrated me with it since the begining. I would be quite happy to be getting those kind of heat gains overnight. The consensus seems to be that you need exceptional insulation and airtightness, and also heat recovery ventilation to get the kind of performance you are expecting.
The standard level of insulation and ventilaiton does not appear to be sufficient to get the headline performance that geothermal promises. If we get the kind of cold weather we got during the last two winters you can also expect to get a fair bit of day time running to maintain the 18 degrees...I did.
I have also been told that geothermal is more efficient at maintaining temperatures within a narrow range than raising temperatures by several degrees in a short amount of time.
My profile is very similar to yours, with one change; I have an extra setting of 19 degrees at 9pm. The reason is that if temperatures are low it will kick in early, but the system only runs at 25Hz for the first 2-3 hours, so electricity consumption is not too high during the peak period. This maximises running at high speeds, and power consumption, during off-peak times.

Thanks for that, It would appear from what you said we have similar problems. I noticed that the system starts up from cold quite well but gets less effective as it approaches 18C. The water temperature from the heat pump appears to be about ~22C and therefore I believe that it would not be possible to heat a room/house to 22C with water at this temperature. There must be a temperature drop from the water to floor/air surface due to thermal impedance of my tiles and wooden floor ( upstairs ). I though that this might have been the cause but I take your point regarding the high level of efficiency and insulation needed to make GSHP system work well.

I would like to know how the heat pump output temperature is set, and if it can be adjusted.

I am going to review all the lagging and loft insulation and add extra where necessary or possible but I still would like to have a Neura trained engineer give the system the once over. If only to give me good review of what is what with this system. If you know of one could you pm their details?.

I'm also going to try to calculated the heat load of the house by taking temperature measurements at regular intervals as the house cools down after turning off all heating and knowing the outside air temperature, I thinks this is possible and would give me an actual measurment of house's efficiency.

The low temperature you experienced last year do worry me, as there's little chance that my system would cope, were you able to work out your heating costs for this period of time?.

Thanks once again.

johnb25

kilowhiskey wrote: »

I would like to know how the heat pump output temperature is set, and if it can be adjusted.

Almost sure it cannot be adjusted; the only adjustment I know of is the cycle speed dial on the heating control panel. It regulates the speed at which the system operates, and therefore the amount of heat it should generate in a given time period.

kilowhiskey wrote: »

... I still would like to have a Neura trained engineer give the system the once over. If only to give me good review of what is what with this system. If you know of one could you pm their details?.

The only ones I know of, or have used, are Ecoheat in Carlow; as far as I know they are the only Irish agents for Neura.
http://www.ecoenergy.ie/showpage.php?contentid=about

kilowhiskey wrote: »

The low temperature you experienced last year do worry me, as there's little chance that my system would cope, were you able to work out your heating costs for this period of time?.

No, did not work that out...

kanoute696

HI All, do you mind if I add another question here -

My heat isnt coming on upstairs - is there anyway of telling if its working (as opposed to making a change and then waiting hours to find out the floor isnt warm)

are the clocks on the manifold meant to be a certain temperature?.

kilowhiskey

kanoute696 wrote: »

HI All, do you mind if I add another question here -

My heat isnt coming on upstairs - is there anyway of telling if its working (as opposed to making a change and then waiting hours to find out the floor isnt warm)

are the clocks on the manifold meant to be a certain temperature?.

Hi kanoute69,

I'm not an expert by any means but I have the same problem. Upstairs remains 4-5C below the temperatures achieved downstairs. I though it may be because on the lower floors they're covered with tiles, and upstairs its enginnered oak floors. I decided to check the flow rates in each loop, as these should be "balanced", but all the valves ( clocks?) were fully open on both the upstairs and downstairs manifold. I have valve control on the input side and flow indicators on the outflow side of each loop. By closing down some unused rooms and reducing the flow slightly then balancing all used rooms downstairs the upstairs is now a little warmer than before.
I think that the system was never balanced and the downstairs "robbed" the flow from the upstairs as it takes more pressure to pump it upstairs than down, therefore the "hydraulic length" of the upstairs loops appears longer.

If you're system has one pump only then loop balancing is very important to get the heat evenly distributed, especially between upstairs and downstairs.

Maybe worth checking on your set up.