What do you think of this?

slowburner

......natural or not?
Situated at the top of a commanding hill with astonishing views of Wicklow is this anomaly. The landowner has been excavating underneath the granite erratics, presumably to get at the slate.
This seems to me to have revealed the profile of an underground or buried structure.
This a view of the site from above. The top of the excavation or disturbance of the ground can be seen directly below the three granite erratics where half a gorse bush has been torn away.

This view shows a section of the site. Towards the left of the photo is a stacked vertical line of what, in my opinion, are worked granite stones. Behind these stones (to their right in the photo) is an area of soil or backfill. Further right and under the Gorse is a 'wall' of stacked slate.



The granite is not a natural bedrock in the area and was either brought from a neighbouring area or worked out of the granite erratics which are strewn amongst nearby field boundaries, where they probably lie as a result of field clearance.
The area has been exploited over the millenia for its mineral resources and there are listed national monuments including an early Christian church and a well defined ring barrow within a stone's throw of this location.

Any opinions, expert or not, most welcome.

slowburner

Perhaps I am seeing things where there is nothing?

Maudi

slowburner wrote: »

Perhaps I am seeing things where there is nothing?

hmm...id saw maybe one would have to be there slowburner...you know the way it never comes across in photos

slowburner

Indeed I do

apologyst

i think ur right o.p. i can clearly see what ur talkin bout, the ''wall of stacked slate''is exactly what u say tis and it once stood upright along the righthand edge of ur photo also think the granite wall on left is kind of odd (incongruous) but hey i didnt build it

slowburner

Oh good, maybe I am not barmy then

slowburner

apologyst wrote: »

i think ur right o.p. i can clearly see what ur talkin bout, the ''wall of stacked slate''is exactly what u say tis and it once stood upright along the righthand edge of ur photo also think the granite wall on left is kind of odd (incongruous) but hey i didnt build it

The area has been severely disturbed by recent activity. This obviously makes interpretation more difficult.
I am not sure if the stacked slates continued leftwards in the picture to meet the granite and collapsed later as a result of the recent interference. Or if the lighter coloured backfill soil indicates an earlier activity/construction.
The lighter coloured soil between the slate and the granite, looks to me like a subsoil - or could its colour be a product of the gorse roots from above? Compare it to the arrowed topsoil to the left of centre.
This arrowed photo might help distinguish the zones.

cfuserkildare

Hi,

I know this may be a little off the wall, but is there any evidence that the Romans built a wall like Antonines Wall in Scotland or Hadrians Wall in North England?

Or is it a Boundary wall between 2 warring clans?

Otherwise it looks to me like the remains of a very old builders yard, (Neolithic / Bronze Age).

Just my aimless ramblings.

Cheers.

slowburner

cfuserkildare wrote: »

Hi,

I know this may be a little off the wall, but is there any evidence that the Romans built a wall like Antonines Wall in Scotland or Hadrians Wall in North England?
Or is it a Boundary wall between 2 warring clans?
Otherwise it looks to me like the remains of a very old builders yard, (Neolithic / Bronze Age).

Just my aimless ramblings.

Cheers.

Well, if there was evidence that there was a wall like Hadrian's in Wicklow - that would be BIG news indeed.
I happen to be fairly convinced that the Romans had some sort of presence in the area - there are several pointers but no physical evidence as yet. The nature of activity in this area might well have obliterated any trace.

One of the curious things about the site, is that the 'stacked slate' forms the outer edge of a track which leads to the top of a hill with incredible views over south Wicklow.
Whether the slate is a natural formation or man made remains to be seen.

A small field away, there is another longer road running parallel which goes down the side of the hill towards a now ruined 12th C church.
It strikes me as odd that one road did not just branch off from the other.
Why build two separate roads so close together?
Maybe you are right, maybe it is a wall but it's a heck of a thick one. What its purpose might have been, I don't know.

I think what looks like a builder's yard, is probably just that. I am pretty sure that local farmers have been drawing loose stone out of the area in recent years. I don't think it is early.

I went up there around the evening of the winter solstice and was amazed to see the very last rays of the setting sun hitting the spot.

jayb4k

Slowburner have you tried looking at the old 6 inch maps of the area? http://shop.osi.ie/Shop/Products/Default.aspx then view map, zoom in on the spot then click 6 inch maps in the options window on the right. that will atleast give some indication if there was something there back in the 1830's.

slowburner

jayb4k wrote: »

Slowburner have you tried looking at the old 6 inch maps of the area? http://shop.osi.ie/Shop/Products/Default.aspx then view map, zoom in on the spot then click 6 inch maps in the options window on the right. that will atleast give some indication if there was something there back in the 1830's.

I've been a bit worried that I might wear out the internet looking at the 1st Ordnance Survey.:D
It is a fantastic resource to have online and for free too. It's a major hoby horse of mine.
Comparing the 1st OS maps to Google Earth can be useful as well, but lately I've been using Bing - the images are more up to date and at a higher resolution.
Combining the whole lot - 1838/41, 1895, + the OSI orthophotographics + Google Earth + Bing, gives mighty coverage.

There was another aerial survey carried out in the '50s or '60s - the Fairey Survey, I think. I'd love to see these images, if they covered the area.

Unfortunately (?) the maps show nothing at the location, but I suspect that this construction (if that's what it is) is early, and predates any reliable cartography.
I suspect it was long gone by 1838/41, or not visible: antiquities were not remarked upon by the pairs of sappers who carried out the footwork, unless, that is, the remains were quite obvious.
I have yet to get into the NLI to have a look at the Boundary Remark letters. These might reveal something.

RDM_83 again

I'm not sure how it works for private individuals (i do know professional archaeologists have use it in preparation to impact reports) but if you have an academic affiliation the TCD map library maybe worth checking out.

slowburner

RDM_83 again wrote: »

I'm not sure how it works for private individuals (i do know professional archaeologists have use it in preparation to impact reports) but if you have an academic affiliation the TCD map library maybe worth checking out.

RDM-83, are you talking about the Fairey Survey?

RDM_83 again

TBH I can't remember if they hold that survey (visited various archives that day).

Apparently the advantage of the Map Library, is that while it doesn't hold any material you can't obtain from other sources, you can physically look at multiple maps of the same area at the same time.

ps here's a link to a heritage council pdf of the various aerial surveys (you may have seen this before)

http://www.heritagecouncil.ie/fileadmin/user_upload/Publications/Archaeology/Aerial_Archaeology.pdf

slowburner

I saw that briefly somewhere. It was one of those things I intended to go back and read but never got around to :rolleyes:
It's filed safely now.

Degsy

slowburner wrote: »

......natural or not?
Situated at the top of a commanding hill with astonishing views of Wicklow is this anomaly. The landowner has been excavating underneath the granite erratics, presumably to get at the slate.
This seems to me to have revealed the profile of an underground or buried structure.
This a view of the site from above. The top of the excavation or disturbance of the ground can be seen directly below the three granite erratics where half a gorse bush has been torn away.

This view shows a section of the site. Towards the left of the photo is a stacked vertical line of what, in my opinion, are worked granite stones. Behind these stones (to their right in the photo) is an area of soil or backfill. Further right and under the Gorse is a 'wall' of stacked slate.



The granite is not a natural bedrock in the area and was either brought from a neighbouring area or worked out of the granite erratics which are strewn amongst nearby field boundaries, where they probably lie as a result of field clearance.
The area has been exploited over the millenia for its mineral resources and there are listed national monuments including an early Christian church and a well defined ring barrow within a stone's throw of this location.

Any opinions, expert or not, most welcome.

Its a dump..bits of stone from neighbouring areas or some kind of industry merely dumped in a heap.

slowburner

It is quite possible that there has been some deposition of spoil from various phases of mining activity.
William O'Brien, in his wonderful book on the Bronze Age mines of Mount Gabriel, asserts that the term "Old Mens" Workings' and "Danes' Works" refer to probable Bronze age mining sites.
There were "Old Mens' Workings" recorded in the vicinity of this site in the 19th century, but they have since been lost.
I find it curious how the four roughly hewn, orthogonal stones could have ended up stacked one on top of the other. It looks like a form of revetment, to my inexpert eyes, but I do know a worked stone when I see one.

slowburner

I came across this strange triangular hole today in a granite erratic.
How on earth do you bore a triangular hole?

Aelfric

With a wobbly drill bit. I've seen some strange stuff in my time...

slowburner

I've used plenty of wobbly drill bits and the end result has been still roughly circular, but usually with one arc out of kilter.
I see old holes bored around here in granite all the time (for splitting with plug and feathers) but they never exceed 30 mm.
This hole is around 70 mm and the sides of the triangle are too regular methinks for a drill bit.
Here's pics of standard holes drilled to split a granite erratic. These holes were bored with a 'jumper' - basically a huge nail which was hammered in by one man and held and twisted by another.
The ovality is visible in the first pic. The plug and feathers are visible in the second pic.

slowburner

I wonder what you folks think of this peculiar stone alignment. Natural or not? There is no local knowledge or any reference to it historically.
The orientation is south west.

Maudi

slowburner wrote: »

I wonder what you folks think of this peculiar stone alignment. Natural or not? There is no local knowledge or any reference to it historically.
The orientation is south west.

ive seen this...remind me what part of the county its in again...i remember the tree in the middle! it reminds me a bit of the passsge tomb up on seefin for some reason...whats the nearest house or walls? around?

slowburner

Maudi wrote: »

ive seen this...remind me what part of the county its in again...i remember the tree in the middle! it reminds me a bit of the passsge tomb up on seefin for some reason...whats the nearest house or walls? around?

It's not far from the Avoca mines.
Nearest house would be about a mile away.

Some authorities on this subject have looked at it, and are stumped. It fits the general layout of a wedge tomb but the portal is at the NE - which doesn't fit the normal plan.
I certainly seems, if it is a tomb, that some of the lithics have been robbed out or moved. It's an odd one - some of the arrangements fit the norm, others are the reverse, or missing.
It'll be interesting to hear the verdict of another expert on megaliths.

slowburner

Aelfric wrote: »

With a wobbly drill bit. I've seen some strange stuff in my time...

Came across this when looking for ways to date granite bore holes (unsuccessfully - any help gratefully appreciated ).