Your expensive, super light race bike. Everything you hoped it would be?

Rofo

Some time in the new year I'm hoping to make my 9 month old 10kg alu bike my 'winter/rain bike' and spend a good chunk on a ~7kg carbon race bike.
(And I should point out that I'm not just focused on the weight difference between bikes. I've got 10kg to lose off myself that will make a bigger difference and cost a hell of a lot less than the bike!)

But here's my question:
I've never owned a super light carbon bike. Is it one of those things in life that eventually leaves you feeling like you got suckered by the marketing or is it totally worth it. The first time you went for a spin on yours did it put a big stupid grin on your face? In short - does it pay off?

Junior

yes

Lumen

Yes, although I don't think there's much difference in feel between a 7kg and 8kg bike.

Sizing and geometry makes a big difference.

ednwireland

yup, shame my bodies not up to it

Jawgap

A qualified yes!!

I found a big, big improvement in acceleration, but only a modest increase in top speed.

Way sharper handling - but I'm not sure how of this is down to geometry and how much is down to a stiffer frame.

The trade-off was comfort - in my experience more vibration gets transmitted through the frame which can make for a harsher ride.

velo.2010

I would add that if your going down the road of 'expensive and super-light' then you must consider that it might not be as comfy as something slightly more middle of the road due to the lay-up and grade of the carbon. I've read some reviews of the latest 'super bikes' and they leave little regard for comfort due to their stiffness.

Mycroft H

7kg?

And I thought coming to my 13kg bike was light

VanhireBoys

Sorry to bust your little bubble lads but I rode steels for many years - 14kgs ...!

Got an 8kg super dooper carbon bike and absolutely detested the thing. Light yes responsive yes... Scooty and unpredictable yes.. Just sold it on (here in fact) .. Dont miss it one bit .!

Went back to riding steel again .. My latest bike is about 10kgs and it feels right and rides the way I like...

I know I am in a time-warp but then again its the engine you have that pushes the machine... I love leaving the carbon willy-wavers in my wake ! If I get beat then I just blame the machine...;)

Piercemeear

VanhireBoys wrote: »

Went back to riding steel again .. My latest bike is about 10kgs and it feels right and rides the way I like...

What steel bike did you get, out of interest?

iregk

To be honest I think it really depends on what you are looking for or what you think you're getting. Examples are this. I've had a couple of alu winter bikes, the current is a BeOne storm alu with carbon forks. Thats a great all-round bike and I actually use that through the year too. It handles superb on a high speed descent. Currently its the only bike I have!

Contrast that to two carbon bike's I had and borrowed. The Planet X mid range I found a superb machine. Good up hill, not the frastest bike ever but I'm not the fastest rider ever either. It's main party piece though was its handling. During the summer I had a loan of a high end Cervelo. Climbing I've actually never felt a bike as responsive. It felt like every slight movement of my foot came out at the wheel. It was majestic. That's where the love affair ended.

My balls were rattled off me and my fillings had fallen out by the end of that spin. I'd say I took the descent at about 60% normal pace as it was just so twitchy in the corners, every single bump in the tar and the wheels were jumping. I couldn't get any trust in me at all with that bike.

So it depends, what do you want? I don't have the handling talent of the pro's to appreciate a top end bike at speed. I'll stick with my 1,500 price range carbons for now.

AstraMonti

Rofo wrote: »

The first time you went for a spin on yours did it put a big stupid grin on your face? In short - does it pay off?

Yes, every single time! It's also so tempting to try to make it even lighter.. although after a point it starts getting retardedly expensive. Anyway, just do it!

Rofo

iregk wrote: »

My balls were rattled off me and my fillings had fallen out by the end of that spin. I'd say I took the descent at about 60% normal pace as it was just so twitchy in the corners, every single bump in the tar and the wheels were jumping. I couldn't get any trust in me at all with that bike.

Was it on tubs or clinchers?

Rofo

VanhireBoys wrote: »

Sorry to bust your little bubble lads but I rode steels for many years - 14kgs ...!

Got an 8kg super dooper carbon bike and absolutely detested the thing. Light yes responsive yes... Scooty and unpredictable yes.. Just sold it on (here in fact) .. Dont miss it one bit .!

Went back to riding steel again .. My latest bike is about 10kgs and it feels right and rides the way I like...

I know I am in a time-warp but then again its the engine you have that pushes the machine... I love leaving the carbon willy-wavers in my wake ! If I get beat then I just blame the machine...;)

I've read that a lot of people LOVE their steel or titanium bikes and consider the feel to be way superior to carbon. Guess it's a subjective thing. I'll have to work my way through the materials and make my mind up, starting with carbon!

Lumen

Rofo wrote: »

I've read that a lot of people LOVE their steel or titanium bikes and consider the feel to be way superior to carbon. Guess it's a subjective thing. I'll have to work my way through the materials and make my mind up, starting with carbon!

It's not as simple as that. There are some stuff steel and titanium bikes out there, and some floppy carbon ones.

victorcarrera

Rofo wrote: »

Some time in the new year I'm hoping to make my 9 month old 10kg alu bike my 'winter/rain bike' and spend a good chunk on a ~7kg carbon race bike.
(And... I've got 10kg to lose off myself ... does it pay off?

Riding the heavier alu bike will help you get fitter and lose the weight faster. Then when you achieve your target weight buy the carbon frame as a reward.

Mycroft H

VanhireBoys wrote: »

Sorry to bust your little bubble lads but I rode steels for many years - 14kgs ...!

Got an 8kg super dooper carbon bike and absolutely detested the thing. Light yes responsive yes... Scooty and unpredictable yes.. Just sold it on (here in fact) .. Dont miss it one bit .!

Went back to riding steel again .. My latest bike is about 10kgs and it feels right and rides the way I like...

I know I am in a time-warp but then again its the engine you have that pushes the machine... I love leaving the carbon willy-wavers in my wake ! If I get beat then I just blame the machine...;)

I hear you.

I tried a carbon fiber racer and by god it was light and responsive. Far to twitchy. Too light for my liking.

I don't race, I tour. So weight isn't the be all and end all for me. Sure a few kilos more would get me up the hill faster but I like the comfort and the predictability of a steel frame, and that suits me fine.


Ans yes its very true, if I pass out someone on a fancy alu/carbon fiber frame, its fantastic but when I get overtook by one of them its "of course there going to be faster, my bicycle is heavier"

fat bloke

I think a good bike is a good bike.

I love my hard buzzy super-light race bike, but I equally love my super-comfy, little bit heavier winter aluminium bike.

But i response to original question, can you see/feel the difference and does it put a smile on your face.

In my experience - yes. Absolutely.

manwithaplan

I have a good alu bike. I decided last year I would give racing a go and upgraded the wheels considerably. The difference is night and day.

I have just bought a super light carbon frame. To be honest, I don't imagine the difference will be as great as that when I changed the wheels. I hope I'm wrong and that I'll be an overnight sensation.

mp31

manwithaplan wrote: »

I have a good alu bike. I decided last year I would give racing a go and upgraded the wheels considerably. The difference is night and day.

Interesting... can you give more details on the 'before' and 'after' wheels and the weight savings?

Also, did you change tyres in terms of size/make/profile/weight etc?

One more thing I'd like to ask, could you elaborate on the difference a bit more please?

el tel

Yes totally worth it.

A bike is only judged against its model year peers. Buy the awesomest today and it will always remain the awesomist.

Though I now realise that having the lightest isn't the be all and end all.

Having the best looking, most expensive, most uncommon is.

Probably titanium too.

manwithaplan

mp31 wrote: »

Interesting... can you give more details on the 'before' and 'after' wheels and the weight savings?

Also, did you change tyres in terms of size/make/profile/weight etc?

One more thing I'd like to ask, could you elaborate on the difference a bit more please?

The 'old' wheels, which I still use for everything but racing, are Mavic CXP22 rims built on Tiagra hubs. They have proved bombproof but I haven't a breeze what they weigh.

The new wheels are fulcrum racing zeroes. Think they weigh about 1450g. As well as the weight savings, they feel like they roll a lot more freely. Better hubs and bladed spokes I suppose. I have the same tyres (GP 4000S) on both but have lighter tubes in the racing wheels. The Ultegra cassette is also probably a bit lighter than the 105 one on the old wheels.

The bike feels like it accelerates quicker with the newer wheels and it doesn't seem to require as much effort to maintain a decent clip. However, if your looking for power, speed, HR data etc, you're asking the wrong man.

I think I got more bang for my racing buck than I would have done for other upgrades or trading in the bike. They will also be put on the new bike and I'll keep the old bike for winter, training etc. If you have the ready cash, you can just buy a new machine and it would probably work out cheaper than buying in bits and pieces. However, wheels are a good upgrade if funds are a bit more limited and you can always buy a new frame etc at some point thereafter. It means you can buy the best you can afford at each stage. On the other hand, it also means something will be worn out by the time you're finished and you'll have to start all over again!

Hungrycol

manwithaplan wrote: »

The 'old' wheels, which I still use for everything but racing, are Mavic CXP22 rims built on Tiagra hubs. They have proved bombproof but I haven't a breeze what they weigh.

The new wheels are fulcrum racing zeroes. Think they weigh about 1450g. As well as the weight savings, they feel like they roll a lot more freely. Better hubs and bladed spokes I suppose. I have the same tyres (GP 4000S) on both but have lighter tubes in the racing wheels. The Ultegra cassette is also probably a bit lighter than the 105 one on the old wheels.

What made you choose the zero's over, say, Cosmic SL's?

What's your new frame? Will look out for it whizzing by me in next year's league

manwithaplan

Hungrycol wrote: »

What made you choose the zero's over, say, Cosmic SL's?

What's your new frame? Will look out for it whizzing by me in next year's league

Didn't put a whole lot of thought into it to be honest. There was a good deal going on the fulcrums on a German site. The carbon jobs might well be better.

The new (to me) frame is a 2009 Felt F1. Look out for it sucking your rear wheel next spring.

morana

dont get on a Cervelo Soloist with zipp 404's because there will be no going back.

I have ridden everything around..........and this is the ultimate !

Throw 160psi in the vittoria cx'x and its like heaven!!

chakattack

A big yes from me - big difference in average speed between racing and training bike (28 ish vs. 31ish) over rolling roads at the same sort of effort.

Not much difference in top end cruising speed on the flat (that's all aerodynamics) but faster in a sprint and climbing.

You maintain momentum much better on a light bike with good wheels over rolling roads and it's the stiffness that gives you a big smile on your face when you decide to accelerate.

That's said fitness trumps technology and wheels are the best value for money upgrade.

Super Freak

Your expensive, super light race bike. Everything you hoped it would be?

Yes !!

And this is coming from the slowest Fred ever to throw their leg over a super light carbon fibre uber bike. It's a pleasure to ride and own.

EDIT: I also had the pleasure to build/assemble my bike which also gave me a huge level of satisfaction.

smcclaw

Yes! My bike is everything I hoped it would be and way more comfortable than I expected from an out and out race machine (or anything else for that matter!)

Rofo

Thanks for all the replies. I was worried I was building it up too much in my head but I can go back to being obsessed again! Just need to keep saving - and to sell the golf clubs

Jawgap

Rofo wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies. I was worried I was building it up too much in my head but I can go back to being obsessed again! Just need to keep saving - and to sell the golf clubs

......of course there is always titanium as well.

I've a Ti bike and love it - like every other material there'll always be a compromise, in the case of Ti I've found it to be light and fast but because there is a bit more flex in the frame it doesn't accelerate or handle as sharply as the carbon fibre bike.

Saying that, it is extremely comfy - first time I rode it, I barely made it to the end of the road before I got off to check that the tyres were properly inflated!!

It positively eats the kilometres on longer rides!

Rofo

Jawgap wrote: »

......of course there is always titanium as well.

I've a Ti bike and love it - like every other material there'll always be a compromise, in the case of Ti I've found it to be light and fast but because there is a bit more flex in the frame it doesn't accelerate or handle as sharply as the carbon fibre bike.

Saying that, it is extremely comfy - first time I rode it, I barely made it to the end of the road before I got off to check that the tyres were properly inflated!!

It positively eats the kilometres on longer rides!

I need to make that the '3 Year Plan' - replacing the alu with a Ti training/sportive bike. Wonder which will come first - titanium or divorce. Time will tell!

Jawgap

Rofo wrote: »

I need to make that the '3 Year Plan' - replacing the alu with a Ti training/sportive bike. Wonder which will come first - titanium or divorce. Time will tell!

You'd be doing it wrong then!!

In my case it was divorce first then Alu -> Carbon Fibre -> Titanium

Rofo

Jawgap wrote: »

You'd be doing it wrong then!!

In my case it was divorce first then Alu -> Carbon Fibre -> Titanium

Agreed - carbon is next year's plan. Divorce would mean having to grow and make my own bamboo bike:



My obsession has hopped from Litespeed Archon CR1, to Cannondale Supersix, to Cube Litening Super HPC, to Look 695 (dreaming - waayy beyond budget) to Canyon Aeroad CF, with some stop-offs at PX Nanolight, Bianchi 928 SL, Guerciotti Eureka and more.

I think for value the frontrunner has to be Canyon (I don't like what I've seen of the new PX N2A so far, purely on looks) and I'm leaning towards Super Record, not sure on wheels yet. If I had 2 grand to spare I'd buy the set of Lightweight Ventoux advertised on here at the moment. Must buy lotto ticket.

VanhireBoys

Piercemeear wrote: »

What steel bike did you get, out of interest?

What else but a Peugeot PH501E

The frame is from about 1988 - I have MA2 clinchers, Cinelli Criterium bars and 1A stem and full Shimano 600 group .. I only just got it together but I am delighted...! I remember a time when this country was awash with Pug 501's .. I was very lucky to find this one....


I love the look of that carbon Rofo... Damn nice !

I was chatting to one of the boys who said that much of the bad behaviour in a carbon bike is down to running it on clincher tyres.. Tubs are a different ball game and are better suited to a carbon frame ..
Believe it or not

sy

VanhireBoys wrote: »

What else but a Peugeot PH501E

Beautiful bike VanhireBoys, from a great era.

FISMA

Rofo wrote: »

But here's my question:
I've never owned a super light carbon bike... In short - does it pay off?

Yes and no.

I've owned Lance's bike or the Trek Carbon series since they debuted almost 20 years ago today. They are fantastic.

However, one thing you should consider is that Carbon is engineered whereas steel and aluminum, have a bit more of nature in them.

I've ridden some of the high end steel frames and was surprised to find that they were stiffer than many carbon frames.

Are you planning on going with high end carbon or the cheaper ones? Do yourself a favor and sit on some "real" steel bikes like the Colnagos, Serrottas, and the like. You might just be more impressed with steel.

Although, I must admit the Cannondale 613 looks nice!