How much do you reckon these are worth in the current market?

Thumpette

Hi all.

We are looking to sell our appartment in early 2012 hopefully- will make a massive loss on buying place, but not in negative equity thank god.

Anyway considering Donabate for a house. Ive seen one house in Carrs Mill, which someone was selling up to emigrate, but it sold before we had gotten ourselves in order. The estate agents for the new houses are rubbish with getting back to us, but just wondering what ye reckon the current value is of the 5 bed semi and 5 bed detatched?

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=615910

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=525031

Obviously the semi is on for 375 but i think they let it slip once they were expecting more like 300, and i think they have 475 on the detatched. We're hoping not to go much over 330, but would love the detached. Does the difference between detatched and semi really equate to 100k?

Thanks!

Supercell

Detached is > Semi Detached or 2 family homes as they call them in America.
Put your bid in for the detached and hold your breath, nothing to loose!

stepbar

Thumpette wrote: »

Hi all.

We are looking to sell our appartment in early 2012 hopefully- will make a massive loss on buying place, but not in negative equity thank god.

Anyway considering Donabate for a house. Ive seen one house in Carrs Mill, which someone was selling up to emigrate, but it sold before we had gotten ourselves in order. The estate agents for the new houses are rubbish with getting back to us, but just wondering what ye reckon the current value is of the 5 bed semi and 5 bed detatched?

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=615910

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=525031

Obviously the semi is on for 375 but i think they let it slip once they were expecting more like 300, and i think they have 475 on the detatched. We're hoping not to go much over 330, but would love the detached. Does the difference between detatched and semi really equate to 100k?

Thanks!

€375k for the semi is lunacy. Divide by 2 and that's where I would be starting from.

Thumpette

stepbar wrote: »

€375k for the semi is lunacy. Divide by 2 and that's where I would be starting from.

Do you really think so? I saw on another thread someone working out the value based on monthly potential rent yeild multiplied by 30 years or something and coming up to 336 or so. Just curious on what basis you think its worth <200K? Location etc?

I know the Malahide/Portmarnock house prices more than Donabate, but based on what else is available 300-310 seems reasonable enough to me? I wish there was somewhere to find out actual selling prices, asking price is so useless!

stepbar

Thumpette wrote: »

Do you really think so? I saw on another thread someone working out the value based on monthly potential rent yeild multiplied by 30 years or something and coming up to 336 or so. Just curious on what basis you think its worth <200K? Location etc?

Always remember:- property is driven by supply and demand. With this in mind and as much as I hate to say this; it's very difficult to value a property on yield alone (Because if it was up to me I'd value every property on this basis alone!!!!). Certainly Apartments / Commercial Property can be valued by yield but even yield is quite objective e.g. Is 6% good value for a prime commercial property on Grafton Street given the amount of empties on same street at the minute? What about Henry Street? and so on.

For example in Dublin (within the M50), estate agents cannot get enough 3/4 houses in certain areas. However, I wouldn't take your eye off what these houses rent for. Do the maths; compare and contrast - rent yield vs sale price. There's 51 houses on Daft under 375k, with a min of 5 bedrooms and 3 bathrooms.

Cheapest is in Clonee - http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=610715

Dearest being the one your're looking at. This house is priced at 25k less - http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=583071. Hard to know if there's much difference really bar age. Here's another http://www.daft.ie/1623917 - Close to the city, a university and transport links. Cheaper and IMO would have more longevity as a family home (kids grow up, university on doorstep, very rent able).

What premium are you prepared to pay for public transport? Good schools locally? I can't really answer that question but I would place more value on a family home closer to the city and close to a college / university than say Donabate (beautiful and all same is).

I know the Malahide/Portmarnock house prices more than Donabate, but based on what else is available 300-310 seems reasonable enough to me? I wish there was somewhere to find out actual selling prices, asking price is so useless!

Next year, a property database is coming on stream. This database will record details on every property; price being the detail most people will be interested in.

hmmm

Annual rent times 30 is very high. I prefer 15 to 20 as a rough guide of fair price (15 is close to long run average), and there is a good chance it could go below 15 before the bottom is reached.

Ray Palmer

Supercell wrote: »

Detached is > Semi Detached or 2 family homes as they call them in America.
Put your bid in for the detached and hold your breath, nothing to loose!

A 2 family home is not a semi detached. A two family home is a property that was once one property and split in two. Normally on the basis of floor. Strangely a flat actually means a whole floor and an appartment means a section of a floor. So a two family home is normally broken into two flats.

OP prices are very subjective and really depend on the location and the neighbourhood. I still consider Donabate the country side. Personally commuting routes are vital to the value of the property.

Don't expect any great improvement to our infastructure for a long time. Fuel is going to get more expensive and closeness to major areas of employment will increase values. I think the next generation may learn that they don't want to spend their lives commuting and will not put up with what people seem to have done in recent times. Personally anything over 1 hour commute is a not sustainable

The_Conductor

hmmm wrote: »

Annual rent times 30 is very high. I prefer 15 to 20 as a rough guide of fair price (15 is close to long run average), and there is a good chance it could go below 15 before the bottom is reached.

Most investors look for a rental yield of at very least 7%, 8 to 8.5% is the sweetpoint, and anything over 8.5% would indicate they should be trying to figure what the issue with the property is (or in an Irish context- what the issue with the property market is)......

The big problem in an Irish context is the lack of clarity on rental and sale prices. We do however have the recent Alsop results to work off- which indicate that a current rental yield to sell ratio is actually over 10% (and this for a high rental D6 area).

So- how much do these houses rent for? Lets be generous and say 1,200-1,400 a month. This represents a gross annual rental income of about 17k (before any deductions). Multiply this by 10 gives you 170k (or if you don't believe its this low- go for 12- and it gives you just over 200k).

Rental income is falling- as the allowable maximums on all the schemes are cut, and absolute prices are continuing to fall- for Donabate you're looking at prices of 40-60% off peak for houses, and up to 70-75% off peak for apartments- before you factor lack of credit, and falling rents come the new year, into the equation.

At the end of the day- everything is worth what its purchaser is willing to pay for it. If you can find that one person who is willing to offer you 20% more than next door would sell for- and has the finances to support this- well done.

So- its an illiquid market, with falling rental yields- and the property while in a reasonably good area, is not remarkable in nature.

I'd go possibly to 160k on the semi and 180-190 on the detached. For an apartment of similar size- I'd chop the price by at least 30-40%.........

The_Conductor

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Banned.

subway

smccarrick wrote: »

So- how much do these houses rent for? Lets be generous and say 1,200-1,400 a month.

my monacle popped out and fell into my glass of brandy at that one!
you are obviously extremely generous and i hope i am on your christmas list.

i would estimate max rent for this estate is way below that amount. maybe a few are renting for somewhere near that at the moment, but i cant see it being sustainable.

mathie

smccarrick wrote: »

Banned.

Bit harsh.
It was on topic.

hmmm

smccarrick wrote: »

We do however have the recent Alsop results to work off- which indicate that a current rental yield to sell ratio is actually over 10% (and this for a high rental D6 area).

I'm not fond of using Alsop as a guide for properties. The Alsop buyer is typically an investor paying cash - this is going to give a fair price for easy to rent city centre apartments, but isn't a great guide to houses like the OP is looking at (IMO).

The_Conductor

hmmm wrote: »

I'm not fond of using Alsop as a guide for properties. The Alsop buyer is typically an investor paying cash - this is going to give a fair price for easy to rent city centre apartments, but isn't a great guide to houses like the OP is looking at (IMO).

I'm not fond of using it either- however its the only fully valid data set we have.......

Bigcheeze

smccarrick wrote: »

I'm not fond of using it either- however its the only fully valid data set we have.......

Your model only puts 20-30k between those two properties ?

The detached property is detached (obviously), double fronted and on a much larger site. No one is going to get a 2,700 sq ft property, in a good family area, 20 mins by train from the city for 180-190.

Thumpette

Thanks for all the responses:)

While i see the logic of where you are coming with in the prices i cant imagine that they are ever realistically going to sell for anything in the mid-late 100s.

I agree that a house is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it, but at the same time, its only worth what the seller will take for it too.

I suppose my question is really more, what do you think the seller realistically expects/will accept for it?

Really appreciate the feedback!

theTinker

Thumpette wrote: »

Thanks for all the responses:)

While i see the logic of where you are coming with in the prices i cant imagine that they are ever realistically going to sell for anything in the mid-late 100s.

I agree that a house is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it, but at the same time, its only worth what the seller will take for it too.

I suppose my question is really more, what do you think the seller realistically expects/will accept for it?

Really appreciate the feedback!

Do you know if there are any other bids(real bids) or how long they've been waiting on a sale. In my area, Houses have been up for sale for well over a year. The sellers are now looking for 30% less than what they were a year ago just to try get rid of it. The longer it takes, the less they will take and the lesser they will get.

I cant see the logic in offering anything other than a very low amount like 220 for the detached. If the offer is refused, you can always increase it if you are willing, they agent has to report the price i believe.
Given the huge supply at the moment, the ball is more in your court than thiers. You know they dont want to be sitting on this much longer as prices continue to drop. They might be perfectily and begrudgingily open to firesaling this place.