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Shops Dodging Tax

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  • 11-12-2011 8:36pm
    #1
    admiralofthefleet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭


    i was just in the shop buying a few things and got 20 smokes. the girl scanned the smokes in and they came up at the pre budget price.
    the girl then scanned in 25cent 'open sale' to bring the price up to date

    ive been working in retail all my life and i know that an open sale doesnt mean tax

    in esscence the shop is creaming an extra 25cent off cigarette sales and not passing the tax increase onto to the revenue

    really grinds my gears as its a local type shop that i support over the symbol groups


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    #2
    ICANN
    Registered Users Posts: 350 ✭✭ICANN


    That sounds more like the shop just hasn't put in the new price in their tils yet. They'll be paying the tax anyway seeing as cigarettes have gone through the til as opposed to putting the entire thing through as an open sale.


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    #3
    Kevin Duffy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,439 ✭✭✭Kevin Duffy


    You see the same "open sales" in town*, they open the jacket and out pops the smokes with not a thought for the tax implications.







    *Yes, that one.


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    #4
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    go on the tax


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    #5
    skyhighflyer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,149 ✭✭✭skyhighflyer


    OP, report them to the Revenue immediately. This kind of massive fraud cannot go unpunished. Makes Anglo Irish Bank look like a drop in the ocean so it does.


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    #6
    Fran1985
    Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭Fran1985


    surely the shop pays the tax when they buy the fags, then pass that tax charge onto the mugs who smoke


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    #7
    Kim_Il_Jong
    Closed Accounts Posts: 74 ✭✭Kim_Il_Jong


    see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.


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    #8
    skyhighflyer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,149 ✭✭✭skyhighflyer


    Fran1985 wrote: »
    surely the shop pays the tax when they buy the fags, then pass that charge the tax onto the mugs who smoke

    Precisely. It would be like saying a petrol station was dodging tax by not passing a duty increase on to drivers. The station would be losing money, not dodging tax.


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    #9
    mickdw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,313 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Looks like stock they bought at the old rates and are flogging at the new price and keeping the difference.


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    #10
    Padraig Mor
    Registered Users Posts: 9,544 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    ICANN wrote: »
    That sounds more like the shop just hasn't put in the new price in their tils yet. They'll be paying the tax anyway seeing as cigarettes have gone through the til as opposed to putting the entire thing through as an open sale.
    no. Excise duty is not a sales tax. Any fags bought by the shop before the budget rise were at the old tax level. If they sell them at the 25 cent higher price, they are simply creaming off the difference for themselves. Half the shops in the country will have their stock rooms packed to the roof with lower duty smokes which they will be ripping customers off with for months to come.


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    #11
    Temptamperu
    Registered Users Posts: 5,303 ✭✭✭Temptamperu


    Fran1985 wrote: »
    surely the shop pays the tax when they buy the fags, then pass that charge the tax onto the mugs who smoke
    Unless they are pre-budget ciggerettes and they are pocketing the extra 25c


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    #12
    El Weirdo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,647 ✭✭✭✭El Weirdo


    Temptamperu wrote: »
    Unless they are pre-budget ciggerettes and they are pocketing the extra 25c
    And there's absolutely nothing illegal about that.

    I suppose you could argue that it's a tad immoral, but certainly not illegal.


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    #13
    Ellis Dee
    Registered Users Posts: 2,512 ✭✭✭Ellis Dee


    I was in Estonia about a week ago and decided to send an xmas present to a brother of mine who, foolishly, smokes. I bought two cartons of red Marlboro for €60 and then paid €10 for a cardboard box and postage at the post office. That works out at €3.50 a pack. I suppose some would describe me as a criminal for paying a little tax to Estonia rather than a lot to Ireland.:)


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    #14
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    Ellis Dee wrote: »
    decided to send an xmas present to a brother of mine who, foolishly, smokes

    If it was a bone fide present (i.e. you werent getting any payment) then you would (as far as I know) not actually have been doing anything wrong ?


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    #15
    massdebater
    Registered Users Posts: 2,251 ✭✭✭massdebater


    Ellis Dee wrote: »
    I was in Estonia about a week ago and decided to send an xmas present to a brother of mine who, foolishly, smokes. I bought two cartons of red Marlboro for €60 and then paid €10 for a cardboard box and postage at the post office. That works out at €3.50 a pack. I suppose some would describe me as a criminal for paying a little tax to Estonia rather than a lot to Ireland.:)

    You obviously hate your brother.


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    #16
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,368 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    admiralofthefleet wrote: »
    i was just in the shop buying a few things and got 20 smokes. the girl scanned the smokes in and they came up at the pre budget price.
    the girl then scanned in 25cent 'open sale' to bring the price up to date

    ive been working in retail all my life and i know that an open sale doesnt mean tax

    in esscence the shop is creaming an extra 25cent off cigarette sales and not passing the tax increase onto to the revenue

    really grinds my gears as its a local type shop that i support over the symbol groups
    You maybe working in retail all your life but obviously don't know how the systems work or how tax is collected on these things.

    The tax on smokes is collected on the purchase by the shop. The shops have always pocketed the tax when the price charge went up. The main reason they are doing this is becasue the price hasn't been changed on the till.

    This can be due to laziness or to acurately track the extra profit.

    It is really funny that you have only realised this now that this is what they have done all the time. Shops collect vat not excise.


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    #17
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 24,009 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    You maybe working in retail all your life but obviously don't know how the systems work or how tax is collected on these things.

    The tax on smokes is collected on the purchase by the shop. The shops have always pocketed the tax when the price charge went up. The main reason they are doing this is becasue the price hasn't been changed on the till.

    This can be due to laziness or to acurately track the extra profit.

    It is really funny that you have only realised this now that this is what they have done all the time. Shops collect vat not excise.

    It's just part of the rip-off culture in Ireland. There are the odd retailers that don't increase the prices until all of the old stock is used up, but these traders are unfortunately few and far between.


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    #18
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,368 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    ejmaztec wrote: »
    It's just part of the rip-off culture in Ireland. There are the odd retailers that don't increase the prices until all of the old stock is used up, but these traders are unfortunately few and far between.
    Except it is isn't unique to Ireland and those retailers that don't up their prices are actually breaking the law. Happens due to the difficulty with working out the stock systems and accounts.


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    #19
    Seaneh
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,300 ✭✭✭✭Seaneh


    admiralofthefleet wrote: »
    ive been working in retail all my life

    Evidently, not as an accountant...


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    #20
    Padraig Mor
    Registered Users Posts: 9,544 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    those retailers that don't up their prices are actually breaking the law
    eh.......no.
    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    Happens due to the difficulty with working out the stock systems and accounts.
    :rolleyes:
    Where's a 'breaking my hole laughing' smilie when you need it?


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    #21
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 24,009 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    Padraig Mor wrote: »
    eh.......no.


    :rolleyes:
    Where's a 'breaking my hole laughing' smilie when you need it?

    What he said.
    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    Except it is isn't unique to Ireland and those retailers that don't up their prices are actually breaking the law. Happens due to the difficulty with working out the stock systems and accounts.

    It may not be unique to Ireland, but it is part of a rip-off culture. The retailers upping the price immediately on old stock, whilst improving their cashflow, aren't doing their goodwill much good.


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    #22
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,368 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Padraig Mor wrote: »
    eh.......no.
    Yeap it is according to our rules on fag sales
    Padraig Mor wrote: »
    :rolleyes:
    Where's a 'breaking my hole laughing' smilie when you need it?

    Before modern system it certainly was difficult to caluclate it all out and the old rule stands.


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    #23
    Padraig Mor
    Registered Users Posts: 9,544 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    Yeap it is according to our rules on fag sales

    .

    No it's not. You may want to look up the difference between excise duty and sales tax.


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    #24
    El Weirdo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,647 ✭✭✭✭El Weirdo


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    Yeap it is according to our rules on fag sales
    Which are?


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    #25
    frag420
    Registered Users Posts: 6,158 ✭✭✭frag420


    Kim_Il_Jong wrote: »
    see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.

    Smoke no evil!!


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    #26
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 24,009 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    Yeap it is according to our rules on fag sales


    Before modern system it certainly was difficult to caluclate it all out and the old rule stands.

    Because of the high security involving fags in store-rooms, it was always possible to separate the different purchase batches between old and new stock, although most retailers couldn't be arsed doing this when they could earn a few extra quid by ignoring the split.


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