PhD Duration

CatFromHue

Hi,

I was of the assumption that PhD's are usually 3 years in duration yet Trinity are offering the below 4 year PhD.

https://jobs.tcd.ie/pls/corehrrecruit/erq_jobspec_details_form.display_form

Does anyone know why this is?

pow wow

That link isn't working...

bradyle

I think technically you can do a PhD in any amount of time but usually they last somewhere between 3 and 4 years and so they normally allow funding for the students fees for all four years

CatFromHue

pow wow wrote: »

That link isn't working...

No and I'm not sure why.

Any other link I put to that page won't work either so you'll just have to trust me when I say it the position is 4 years in duration.

Metalpanic

bradyle wrote: »

I think technically you can do a PhD in any amount of time but usually they last somewhere between 3 and 4 years and so they normally allow funding for the students fees for all four years

Some universities have a minimum length of time you can do the PhD in. Until recently most only gave funding for 3.5 years. This didn't work out well for most people, they would finish their research in 3.5 years and spend 6 months writing up unfunded. So now it's more common for the full 4 years to be funded.

CatFromHue

bradyle wrote: »

I think technically you can do a PhD in any amount of time but usually they last somewhere between 3 and 4 years and so they normally allow funding for the students fees for all four years

So is there more pressure on a 3 year PhD? or would it be that on a 4 year duration you might be given more mini projects to work on?

I do know a friend of mine took nearly 5 years to complete his but he mentioned that his supervisor had him doing a lot of other research.

deegs

I have to complete mine withing 10years max and not less than 3 years. This is the unfunded option, dunno how scholarships or funding works?

g'em

In Trinity all PhDs are funded for three years as standard (^in science they are anyway) - that doesn't mean you can't get money for more than that but it'll be PI dependent. You're guaranteed the 3 years.

If it's a PhD that's advertised as 4 years its most likely an integrative PhD, modelled on the US system where the first year is comprised of 2-3 rotations and then years 2-4 are the PhD 'proper'.

Ostrom

I'm just writing up now, this is my fifth year, and is around/slightly below the average of most others I've known. I spent a year with a heavy teaching load and changed topic however, so I might not be entirely representative.

http://www.studentservices.uwa.edu.au/__data/page/65297/Its_a_PhD_not_a_Nobel_Prize.pdf

This paper gives a breakdown of completion times

gutenberg

In Ireland, usually four years is allowed to complete the PhD; if a student is on a scholarship (for example IRCHSS) I believe the department actually gets fined if you don't finish on time?! So universities in general are tightening up their rules as regards finishing 'on time'.

In the UK where I am at the moment, they are quite strict (in the arts & humanities at least) about finishing within 3 years- that's all that you're funded for, and similarly to Ireland if a student runs over it negatively affects their ability to secure more postgraduate funding in the future.

Raphael

Mine's 4 years, as are most of the ones I saw advertised when I was in the process of applying (this time last year)

pow wow

CatFromHue wrote: »

No and I'm not sure why.

Any other link I put to that page won't work either so you'll just have to trust me when I say it the position is 4 years in duration.

I'm not disputing what you're saying, I meant that seeing the particulars of the position would put us in a better position to explain it and so without seeing them the advice would just be speculative. For example, one of the PhDs advertised is a 4 year funded one in RES and the particulars list it as a GREP. A GREP (Graduate Research Education Programme) is a 4 year structured PhD along the lines of what g'em posted - it's a mixture of a regular PhD with an additional component (sometimes modular) in the first year.

I didn't get a chance to look at all the PhDs listed but if it's the RES one then that's the reason it's 4 years. If you google GREP there are more extensive explanations of the system, particularly from IRCHSS.

itzme

CatFromHue wrote: »

Hi,

I was of the assumption that PhD's are usually 3 years in duration yet Trinity are offering the below 4 year PhD.

https://jobs.tcd.ie/pls/corehrrecruit/erq_jobspec_details_form.display_form

Does anyone know why this is?

There is no and never has been any official length of time for a PhD, there is a minimum length of time you need to be registered before you can sit your viva and there is a funding period if you get some sort of grant. In other words finish 3 years never meant get a PhD.

The confusion comes from up until recently most universities in Ireland have had a policy that you have to be registered for 3 years before they will allow you to sit your viva, the examination for a PhD. That has changed, the PhD programme in Ireland has switched to a structured programme. This means that there are taught courses as part of it which need to be sat and passed, and for a student to be able to sit their viva they need to have got enough credits and been registered for the minimum duration. It would obviously be unfair to increase the workload of PhD students and still only fund them for 3 years, so most universities increased the minimum duration to 4 years. As far as I know this is Ireland wide, although its up to the individual universities to implement
Some info

CatFromHue

pow wow wrote: »

I'm not disputing what you're saying, I meant that seeing the particulars of the position would put us in a better position to explain it and so without seeing them the advice would just be speculative. For example, one of the PhDs advertised is a 4 year funded one in RES and the particulars list it as a GREP. A GREP (Graduate Research Education Programme) is a 4 year structured PhD along the lines of what g'em posted - it's a mixture of a regular PhD with an additional component (sometimes modular) in the first year.

I didn't get a chance to look at all the PhDs listed but if it's the RES one then that's the reason it's 4 years. If you google GREP there are more extensive explanations of the system, particularly from IRCHSS.

It's a GREP position.

Taken from the job description linked on the TCD page.
PhD Scholarship in Energy (Graduate Research Education Programme in
Engineering)
Project duration: 4 years (to start by April 2012)
Project code: GREP‐TCDENERGY

Thanks for your help everyone. It was something that had me a bit puzzled.

blucey

CatFromHue wrote: »

Hi,

I was of the assumption that PhD's are usually 3 years in duration yet Trinity are offering the below 4 year PhD.

https://jobs.tcd.ie/pls/corehrrecruit/erq_jobspec_details_form.display_form

Does anyone know why this is?

What department is this in?
Anyhow...a phd is not limited to 4 years. It's GENERALLY 3-4 years, usually 4, but that's a rubric. I did mine in 2.5y, I have had students that took , I have not had any that took into the 5th year.
Is the work done? Then it's done.

Cavehill Red

I've known PhDs take anything from 9 months to 17 years (both in the US). Five to seven is not uncommon in America. 3-4 is usual in Ireland, but plenty will go to five or beyond.

KINGVictor

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I've known PhDs take anything from 9 months to 17 years (both in the US). Five to seven is not uncommon in America. 3-4 is usual in Ireland, but plenty will go to five or beyond.

PhDs that take 9 months? That is very questionable indeed. The whole process of a doctoral study with elements such as: Literature review, gathering/collection of data, analysing /interpretation/ discussion etc cannot be completed within 9 months.

I have heard of some completing Phds in 2 and a half years in Germany, but in the US, most phds take a minimum of 5 years as most universities have incorporated taught elements.

In my own opinion, if a candidate is very motivated, has well planned research objectives , a sound knowledge in research methods and a very good supervisor- then getting a PhD in 2 years is achievable. However, as we all know, the majority of doctoral candidates would not meet these criteria, hence the wisdom of setting the minimum duration at 3 years.

Like some posters have said, some universities are introducing "Structual PhDs" which are now a minimum of 4 years in response to the reality that not all PhD holders would work in academia/research based work environments, hence the need to provide the students with practical transferable skills that will appeal to employers.

Cavehill Red

KINGVictor wrote: »

PhDs that take 9 months? That is very questionable indeed. The whole process of a doctoral study with elements such as: Literature review, gathering/collection of data, analysing /interpretation/ discussion etc cannot be completed within 9 months.

Not quite. He was on books, scheduled to finish later a particular year, when he discovered a newly published book effectively covered the entire subject matter of his thesis. Having already read extensively and prepared a bibliography, he took a new angle on the same author, and wrote a thesis from scratch in nine months and graduated.

KINGVictor

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Not quite. He was on books, scheduled to finish later a particular year, when he discovered a newly published book effectively covered the entire subject matter of his thesis. Having already read extensively and prepared a bibliography, he took a new angle on the same author, and wrote a thesis from scratch in nine months and graduated.

Hi Cavehill, I would like to seek further clarifications there.

Firstly, what do you mean by- "he was on books"?

Secondly, you said he "discovered a newly published book that covered the entire subject matter of his thesis" what does that mean?

Thirdly and most importantly, if he took a new angle, surely he must have done primary research to support any assertions he might make in his thesis. What you have explained might work in writing an research article or an academic paper for a journal but would not be acceptable for a doctorate degree, well unless, he used a significant amount of the literature review, methodology, primary data from the "newly published book" which in a lot of institutions would be considered to be lack of originality in the least and in most cases would be plagiarism.

N.B: I am disputing what you are saying, I just haven't heard of anything like it.

Focalbhach

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Not quite. He was on books, scheduled to finish later a particular year, when he discovered a newly published book effectively covered the entire subject matter of his thesis. Having already read extensively and prepared a bibliography, he took a new angle on the same author, and wrote a thesis from scratch in nine months and graduated.

Am I reading correctly from the bolded portion that the revamped thesis was substantially based on work done for the originally-intended thesis? If so, I don't think it's very accurate to describe only the time spent on the revamped version without including the significant foundation work.

Cavehill Red

As I said, it was a highly unusual situation, and he was a very driven lad. Which is why he is one of the two extremities I mentioned. I notice no one doubts the possibility of someone taking 17 years, yet that's also the case!

To expand further. This happened at a small liberal arts college on the East Coast, Bates I believe. The lad was doing his doctorate on an aspect of W.B. Yeats's poetry, when a book came out, effectively covering his exact thesis topic. He then wrote a new thesis from scratch in nine months on WB Yeats. It wasn't based on his original work at all, but obviously he had already done the bibilo and all the reading.

I hope that clarifies.